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Old 08-29-2012, 15:05   #1
Chris Brines
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I think I hate Glock stock sights...I think...

what a catchy name for a thread huh? Well I knew it would draw some attention from the "sight savvy" crowd, which is exactly what I'm going for.

Ok...long story short....I'm an "ok" shooter. Not bad...but no marksman at all. Earlier this year, I was practicing sometimes 3 or 4 times a week with my Glock 26. And I got to the point to where my shooting was getting pretty good. Each range trip, my groups were tighter, and I'd say I was shooting from an average distance of 12 yards.

The thing is...when I shoot 1911's, or Berettas for example....I find that I get more accurate shots much sooner, and easier. And I can't figure out why. I've come to the conclusion that it may be the fact that I have Glock factory fixed sights, and I need better sights. I think I prefer the 3 dot sight picture, rather than the sight picture of Glocks factory sights. I'm no sight expert, by the way, so forgive me if my "lingo" isn't exactly "hip".

I am wondering if maybe anyone can recommend to me some sights that are made for "ok" shooters to get a more accurate shot, easier. I can't think of an more simple way to put it than that. I'm not even sure sights are what I need, maybe I just needa make sure I hit the range at least twice a month (I hadn't been in nearly 2 months, just went today. 1st 30 shots were all over the place. I found that if I take a deep breath, exhale, relax for a split second and SQUEEZE (not jerk..another bad habit of mine) the trigger...I get much better shots). I'm asking the more skilled shooters for what their advice is.

I've never been FORMALLY taught how to shoot a Glock. Well I've taken defensive pistol training, but never really had a full session dedicated specifically to aiming and accuracy.. I know my stance and grip are good, the instructors at the range taught me that. But I can't afford regular shooting lessons, and I know I'm not that bad of a shooter with other guns. Hell with some 1911's I get groups IN the 10 ring (or whatever the smallest one, where the bullseye is), right off the bat. Same (well, close) accuracy with some Berettas and Sigs I've shot.

But I don't wanna switch, I love Glocks, I feel like I can rely on them no matter what conditions I find myself in. But considering I CCW a Glock 26 everywhere I go, and I live in a major city so the likelihood of me having to use it one day is automatically increased....but what else is increased is the likelihood of innocent bystanders being present if and when that day God Forbid comes (which I pray it never does...that is something I truly dread..even if I am completely in the right...which I would be if I ever used deadly force...). I'd feel hesitant to take a shot if there were ANYONE anywhere NEAR the 6 o clock, or even between the 4 and 8 o clock of my intended target. I never want to be the guy who hurt or killed someone else unintentionally...while trying to defend myself...

Any advice on this matter? It's greatly appreciated. I don't know much about sights, or how people typically feel about the stock fixed Glock sights..or if they are considered "lower quality". Is it just a matter of me needing to practice more? Or are there better sights out there that may make it easier for me to get tighter groups at the range, thus making me a much safer shooter if a SD need ever arises?

Help is appreciated..

(sorry, I'm not very good at making "long stories short")

Last edited by Chris Brines; 08-29-2012 at 15:08..
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Old 08-29-2012, 17:50   #2
yamen1999
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Chris is your primary purpose for shooting self defense or shooting for scores?

I have a G21 with a hex sight and it is a very affective combat sight. (self defense)
http://goshen-hexsite.com/




If you are shooting for score than hopefully others will be able to give you advice on those types of sights.

The hex sight works in all light conditions and for me is faster on target then my night sights were.

You need to practice trigger control. Make sure you weapon is empty. Rack the slide and squeeze the trigger. Do not release the trigger and rerack the slide. Slowly release the trigger until you feel and hear a click. The trigger is now reset for follow up shots. This will help eliminate trigger jerk.

You really should invest in some formal gun training especially if you carry for self defense.

Your grouping may be better with the other guns because of the length of the barrel is longer so you have less muzzle flip.

Make sure you weapon is unloaded and practice dry fire at home. This will help you relax more at the range, which will improve your accuracy. I bought a laser pointer from radio shack and attached it to my pistol with wire ties when I was home. I would make sure the dot pointed were the sights were pointed and practice coming up on target. It was cheap and improved my shooting. I would operate the on button with my index finger after I thought I was on target.
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Old 08-29-2012, 21:11   #3
Chris Brines
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yamen1999 View Post
Chris is your primary purpose for shooting self defense or shooting for scores?

I have a G21 with a hex sight and it is a very affective combat sight. (self defense)
http://goshen-hexsite.com/




If you are shooting for score than hopefully others will be able to give you advice on those types of sights.

The hex sight works in all light conditions and for me is faster on target then my night sights were.

You need to practice trigger control. Make sure you weapon is empty. Rack the slide and squeeze the trigger. Do not release the trigger and rerack the slide. Slowly release the trigger until you feel and hear a click. The trigger is now reset for follow up shots. This will help eliminate trigger jerk.

You really should invest in some formal gun training especially if you carry for self defense.

Your grouping may be better with the other guns because of the length of the barrel is longer so you have less muzzle flip.

Make sure you weapon is unloaded and practice dry fire at home. This will help you relax more at the range, which will improve your accuracy. I bought a laser pointer from radio shack and attached it to my pistol with wire ties when I was home. I would make sure the dot pointed were the sights were pointed and practice coming up on target. It was cheap and improved my shooting. I would operate the on button with my index finger after I thought I was on target.
Self defense....I just figured if I'm getting better "scores" at the range, then my shots in an SD situation would be good too. I've already been to 3 firearms training classes in the last 3 months. Very good training too...some of the best in Texas...one class we went thru 500 rounds in 5 hours...then on Thursdays they do refreshers..minimum 300 rounds...mostly draw/rapid fire drills..I just haven't had the time or money to go to any more training classes lately....and am more concerned about my longer (12 yds and beyond) range accuracy. Just for the record...I am adequately experienced with firearms....I"ve probably shot nearly 10K rounds in the last year, in total....just not much this summer at all....it's been a rough one...

The thing is earlier this year I was shooting like 4 or more times a month.....last few months have been super busy and tight with $$$....so not nearly as much shooting. Shooting really is a perishable skill.....

Honestly I used to do that dry fire/reset trick you told me....it's just been a while and I kinda forgot about it.

But the more I think about it....the more I think I'd do better with a 3 dot sight picture (a term I just learned reading other posts in this forum, in fact)......or something....like I said I'm no sight expert, I just find that with other guns I get more accurate shots....and with the Glock...it takes one magazine, or two, of not so accurate shots....before I'm getting "groups" of any kind. After about 20 rounds I'm getting roughly 1"-2" groups though.

I've read quite a few posts in this forum and am still a little confused so that's why I started my own thread. So many different sights out there....and I am not sure which ones are better for which scenarios...I just remember reading someone say they didn't like the stock Glock sights, when I first got my Glock last year....but back then I shot so often it didn't really matter what sights I had.

Now that I am not able to shoot nearly as often, I"m just wondering if there are some types out there that would make it easier to get more accurate shots...I really have no clue about sights, generally speaking...

Last edited by Chris Brines; 08-29-2012 at 21:19..
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Old 08-29-2012, 21:30   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yamen1999 View Post
I have a G21 with a hex sight and it is a very affective combat sight. (self defense)
http://goshen-hexsite.com/
That's the same thing as a Ghost Ring.
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Old 08-29-2012, 22:25   #5
yamen1999
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pettyofficer: The difference between the hex sight and ghost ring is the shape of the rear sight. The hex shape makes the eye focus faster than the ghost ring.

Chris: another thing I like about the hex is if you are holding a person at gun point. The standard 3 dot sight covers up the hands. The hex sight allows you to see more of the persons body. I can drill 6 consecutive shots in the 10 ring at 7 yards with the hex sight. I can nail a water jug at 35 yards with no problem. I do most of my training at 7 yards or less and I shoot and move. The hex works very well for me. But That's me. Do what you feel is best for you.
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Old 08-29-2012, 22:27   #6
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Chris, are you cross eye dominant?
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Old 08-30-2012, 08:41   #7
yamen1999
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Chris has anyone else shot you gun?
Did they have the same problem with accuracy?
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Old 08-30-2012, 12:48   #8
Chris Brines
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yamen1999 View Post
Chris has anyone else shot you gun?
Did they have the same problem with accuracy?
My dominant eye is my right eye. Not many others have shot my gun, but the few that did, had no problems that I can think of. Like I said, I don't think there's anything wrong with the gun, maybe I just need more practice.

Like I said, when I go to the range after not shooting in 2 months, my stance, breathing, and grip may have slipped a little....it's not that ALL my shots are off...it's just that the last time I went to the range (2 days ago), was the first time I'd shot my G26 in about 2 months..and had my first few shots MUCH higher (or lower) than I expected them to be.

After adjusting a bit, I was getting good 1"-2" groups.

But like I said...I CCW this gun, and you don't get "warm up shots" in an SD situation.

The only reason I asked, really, was to determine if it's just me being out of practice, or if I could benefit from some better sights. I don't wanna just run out and buy some just to "try" till I've gotten some feedback....cause sights aren't cheap.

The main thing that made me wonder if maybe some different sights would help is the fact that 4 months ago, I went to the range with several guys, who had several REALLY nice 1911's. Now I know 1911's are known for superb accuracy. I also shot a Beretta PX4 and 92FS.

It just seemed like with those guns, I didn't need any "warm up shots", and with one of the 1911's....I actually had a group (one big hole) that stretched about 2". I was all excited loll......I said, "damn I'm good!".

Nahh but seriously, there's nothing wrong with my Glock...it just seems like aiming it correctly is much different than aiming other guns...

I'm not an expert on firearms, I know enough to handle them safely and efficiently, but would definitely like to improve my accuracy with the Glocks.

I'm gonna look into the hex sights you mentioned. Kinda hard to do "research" on sights without actually shooting a gun with those same sights...but it's a start.

I just recently took up reloading so I can afford to shoot more....I'd like to drastically improve my shooting, not only for safety..but just because it's awesome...like Hickok45 ya know lol......that man is a beast with a Glock 26.....or any other gun for that matter... I've already started loading 38's and 357's, the 9mm is next.

Last edited by Chris Brines; 08-30-2012 at 12:52..
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Old 08-30-2012, 17:42   #9
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Well, it may not be much consolation to you but I have had the same problems over time with a couple of pistols. I can shoot fine, but with some I just cant. I dont know what it is, but eventually I found something that worked for me. Sounds like you have plenty of range time, maybe Glock just isnt for you. There are other fine pistols out there, maybe rent or borrow a few and see?
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Old 08-31-2012, 06:54   #10
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I have a couple suggestions...that may or may not be relevant.

1. Do you use mag extensions? The 26 is a small gripping surface, and either aftermarket mag extensions or the Glock 12 round mag helps me.

2. What ammo are you shooting? Hot 9MM ammo can be very sharp in the 26 and cause flinching. Maybe get some snap caps and have someone load them randomly in a couple magazines to see if you are jerking the trigger.

3. Finally, what stance are you using? I find that I shoot much more accurately with my 26 when I use a solid Weaver stance, with my left elbow tucked into my body. I know everyone these days goes with the isocelese stance, but the Weaver really works best for me, especially with the shorties.

Anyway, good luck. I personally like XS Big Dots and TRUGLO TFO'S sights, but I don't believe they are any more accurate than stock sights, just better for low light and faster target acquisition.
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Old 09-01-2012, 23:49   #11
Chris Brines
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I have a couple suggestions...that may or may not be relevant.

1. Do you use mag extensions? The 26 is a small gripping surface, and either aftermarket mag extensions or the Glock 12 round mag helps me.

2. What ammo are you shooting? Hot 9MM ammo can be very sharp in the 26 and cause flinching. Maybe get some snap caps and have someone load them randomly in a couple magazines to see if you are jerking the trigger.

3. Finally, what stance are you using? I find that I shoot much more accurately with my 26 when I use a solid Weaver stance, with my left elbow tucked into my body. I know everyone these days goes with the isocelese stance, but the Weaver really works best for me, especially with the shorties.

Anyway, good luck. I personally like XS Big Dots and TRUGLO TFO'S sights, but I don't believe they are any more accurate than stock sights, just better for low light and faster target acquisition.
I don't normally use mag extensions. I use the GAP floorplates, and sometimes the 17 round Glock mag. The mag extensions pinched when I shot and it was just not comfortable. When I go to the range, I use Winchester, white box 115 grain FMJ RN. I"m not too big on gun training lingo, but I'd say the stance I use is the isocelese, because I don't shoot with my elbows tucked, but that might be something I can try.

The thing is every time I go to the range, after 10 or so rounds, my shots get much better. But it's just the 1st or 2nd shots, especially, that are off, especially if I haven't shot in a while. I'm loading up a couple thousand rounds at the house, and will be shooting them over the next month or so...but these will be my first handloads, so I won't know for sure if that is a factor if my shots are off. I may end up taking a box or 2 of factory FMJ's the first few times I shoot my handloads.

When I first got that gun I was shooting it sometimes twice a week, maybe even 3 times...and didn't have this problem. But yes, I have considered switching brands...I really don't want to though...just because I like the reliability and simplicity of Glocks.

I really have never been "taught" how to target shoot by anyone...when it comes to handgun shooting...I more or less taught myself....so sometimes I don't know if I'm doing something wrong or not....the only training I've had was more of defensive pistol training....not marksmanship of any kind.

Last edited by Chris Brines; 09-01-2012 at 23:50..
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Old 09-02-2012, 06:20   #12
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I read through the entire thread, and I'm actually not convinced this has much to do with the sights at all.

This is still seems a trigger control issue. In slow fire, there is no huge difference in performance between sight types. Certainly not at just 12 yards. So I'm not convinced new sights will dramatically change your results at that distance in slow fire.

An imperfect sight picture at 12 yards and you're off by just an inch or two. Imperfect trigger control and the shot spread is much wider across the paper.
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Old 11-21-2012, 17:46   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yamen1999 View Post
The hex sight allows you to see more of the persons body. I can drill 6 consecutive shots in the 10 ring at 7 yards with the hex sight. I can nail a water jug at 35 yards with no problem. I do most of my training at 7 yards or less and I shoot and move. The hex works very well for me. But That's me. Do what you feel is best for you.

Yamen,

Have you ever used a Ghost Ring sight? I have never heard of anybody being really accurate with them (compared to a standard sight), but have always wanted to give a set a try, for the same reasons you just listed.

I was just wondering if there is a slightly different technique one needs to use with them, or if they just work much better for some than others?
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:14   #14
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Everyone who is bringing up sight brand/type, stance, mag extensions, trigger control, etc. are way off base!!!

Ask yourself this question: Why do target pistols have a longer barrel length?

Sight radius is the MAIN reason for greater accuracy of a 1911 compared to a G26. You are trying to compare the accuracy of a full size 1911, which has a sight radius of approx 6.50" with a G26 that has a sight radius of approx 5.37". A longer sight radius in almost all instances will equate to improved accuracy.

Other facter MAY come into play but everone is mising the obvious MAIN REASON.
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Old 11-29-2012, 18:09   #15
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Quote:
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Everyone who is bringing up sight brand/type, stance, mag extensions, trigger control, etc. are way off base!!!

Ask yourself this question: Why do target pistols have a longer barrel length?

Sight radius is the MAIN reason for greater accuracy of a 1911 compared to a G26. You are trying to compare the accuracy of a full size 1911, which has a sight radius of approx 6.50" with a G26 that has a sight radius of approx 5.37". A longer sight radius in almost all instances will equate to improved accuracy.

Other facter MAY come into play but everone is mising the obvious MAIN REASON.
I disagree.

I can shoot almost the same slowfire groups at 25 yards with a 26, 19, 17 and 34.
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Old 11-29-2012, 20:14   #16
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I disagree.

So Does Mas Ayoob, as he's said in THIS post...
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:58   #17
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I know in my case I grew up shooting revolvers and DA/SA pistols such as most Beretta's and had to learn how to shoot the Glock because it is such a different feel being striker fired. After a few range trips I was able to shoot the Glock as well as my other guns. However after switching to Trijicon sights my grouping has gotten better. I can't stand the stock glock sights and fully believe changing to different sights can improve your shooting, to a certain degree of course.

I also shoot my 4" revolvers better than I shoot 6+" revolvers so I also believe sight radius to not be the end all be all of accuracy.

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