[Geko45]

Originally Posted by Peace Warrior

Okay, you're on record as gravity being the cause. I have to go, but I will be right back. Thanks!

See, we can put your quotes in small BB code font too.

FYI, put me down for gravitation too. I'm really looking forward to schooling you on the basics.

[ArtificialGrape]

Originally Posted by ArtificialGrape

I suspect I'm just naive in this regard, but is there any chance that you would care to share a refereed (peer-reviewed) paper that supports your assertions that "ALL OF THE GAS CLOUDS IN OUTER SPACE ARE SHOWN TO BE EXPANDING" and "Stars forming by themselves won't ever happen based on actual Science"? Given that the request was first to put to you over 16 months ago I suspect I have my answer.

Originally Posted by Peace Warrior

“Attempts to explain both the expansion of the universe and the condensation of galaxies must be largely contradictory so long as gravitation is the only force field under consideration. For if the expansive kinetic energy of matter is adequate to give universal expansion against the gravitational field, it is adequate to prevent local condensation under gravity, and vice versa. That is why, essentially, the formation of galaxies is passed over with little comment in most systems of cosmology.” D.B. Larson, Universe in Motion (1984) page 8

So when asked for some peer-reviewed paper to support your assertion, you have to resort to a mining engineer/economist/philosopher:

. who has been widely dismissed by the scientific community

. who himself thinks that Einstein was wrong in setting the speed of light as a limit, though was unable to publish anything in a peer-reviewed journal supporting this

. claims "that our familiar material world is not the whole of existence as modern science would have us believe" though I'm not sure what, if anything, he advances in support of this claim

. who had to resort to self-publishing his books after being rejected by publishers to whom he shopped them around

?

Of course, none of that is even particularly relevant given that either Larson plagiarized, or you or whoever you took that quote from was either particularly sloppy, or intentionally deceptive in the misattribution of the quote.

The quote that you attributed to Dewey Larson was actually from Thomas Gold and Fred Hoyle's Cosmic rays and radio waves as manifestations of a hot universe paper that was published in 1959...

[SIDE BAR] Gold and Hoyle were proponents of a "steady state" universe rejecting the Big Bang although it was Hoyle who coined the term. Hoyle is also famous for the tornado through a junkyard assembling a Boeing 747 cosmological argument[/SIDE BAR]

... later in this paper was the following quote -- see if you can find the relevant text...

Any gaseous filament drawn out, or produced as the wake of a galaxy in the intergalactic medium, will now not only fail to disperse, but can even grow denser. The pressure of the hot surrounding gas will push fresh material onto it which will be cooled by contact with the material of the filament. Stars may then form, and excitation of the gas can result from energy liberated at the interface between the hot and the cold gas.

-ArtificialGrape

[Animal Mother]

Originally Posted by ArtificialGrape

Of course, none of that is even particularly relevant given that either Larson plagiarized, or you or whoever you took that quote from was either particularly sloppy, or intentionally deceptive in the misattribution of the quote.

In the interest of accuracy, I should point out that the online version of Larson's book does cite the Hoyle and Gold paper as the source for the passage PW quoted. Presumably, wherever PW found the quote dropped the attribution because if he were aware of the actual source, it's far more likely he would have cited Hoyle than some obscure author.

[ArtificialGrape]

Peace Warrior,
Well, after a quick confirmation in the online text of the book. that Animal Mother provided, it is clear that Larson did not plagiarize, as he preceded the quote that you cited with "As expressed by Gold and Hoyle"

So to summarize your citation of Larson in supporting your position, (a) you attribute a quote to Larson which was really from a paper by Gold/Hoyle (b) the Larson quote was quote mining given that the 2 paragraphs that followed detail a gravitational collapse, (c) even if you had properly attributed the quote to Gold and Hoyle, later in their paper they describe star formation.

-ArtificialGrape

[ArtificialGrape]

Originally Posted by Animal Mother

In the interest of accuracy, I should point out that the online version of Larson's book does cite the Hoyle and Gold paper as the source for the passage PW quoted. Presumably, wherever PW found the quote dropped the attribution because if he were aware of the actual source, it's far more likely he would have cited Hoyle than some obscure author.

Agreed, just went and confirmed this as well.

[steveksux]

Originally Posted by Peace Warrior

Gases here on earth neither "condense," "contract," nor "clump together" on their own. There is not enough gravitational pull from gas atoms to cause them to condense.

Absolutely. If gases clumped together due to gravity, Earth would have an atmosphere. Which it clearly does not...

Randy

[Lone Wolf8634]

Ouch!

That's gotta hurt, PW!

[Glock36shooter]

I think what we've learned here is that...

1. The Bible is absolutely not Historically nor Scientifically accurate whatsoever.

And

2. Peace Warrior is highly educated in misinformation, may very well be mentally disturbed, but is absolutely an attention whore.

[ArtificialGrape]

I'm not offering this as support of the star formation discussion that is underway since there are a few nits that can be picked with the presentation, but this a pretty engaging 14 minute stop-motion whiteboard presentation on the life of a star.

This is being offered for educational and entertainment purposes only. Please no wagering.

Life of a Star (Whole Version) - YouTube

Life of a Star (Whole Version) - YouTube

-ArtificialGrape

[ArtificialGrape]

Originally Posted by Peace Warrior

I have to go, but I will be right back.

It's pushing 24 hours, does "right back" mean something different to you?

-ArtificialGrape

[steveksux]

Originally Posted by ArtificialGrape

So when asked for some peer-reviewed paper to support your assertion, you have to resort to a mining engineer/economist/philosopher:
[INDENT]. who has been widely dismissed by the scientific community

Well, you asked for peer reviewed work. You didn't say anything about peer reviewed and roundly rejected as a crank by those peers not being acceptable.

Randy

[Geko45]

Originally Posted by steveksux

Absolutely. If gases clumped together due to gravity, Earth would have an atmosphere. Which it clearly does not...

[Gunhaver]

Originally Posted by Peace Warrior

Thanks.

De nada. No really, it's like high school science stuff. I think that rat guy on Beakman's world even did a demonstration once on the 3 types of heat distribution.

[OfficerChris]

always entertaining that there are really people these days who believe the earth was made by God (one of the hundred gods in history of mankind).

While I visited the US I listened to some religious radio channel for fun. Just unbelievable what is going on in such a big educated, modern country.
If creationism makes it to the schools, the end is near... (dang)

[Gunhaver]

Originally Posted by Peace Warrior

Gases here on earth neither "condense," "contract," nor "clump together" on their own. There is not enough gravitational pull from gas atoms to cause them to condense.

Wait. Are you suggesting that gas atoms don't have enough mass to be attracted to each other?

[juggy4711]

Originally Posted by Gunhaver

Wait. Are you suggesting that gas atoms don't have enough mass to be attracted to each other?

It is painfully obvious that PW doesn't know enough to know what he is or is not suggesting.

[Animal Mother]

Originally Posted by Peace Warrior

Okay, you're on record as gravity being the cause. I have to go, but I will be right back. Thanks!

Checks watch.

[ArtificialGrape]

Originally Posted by Peace Warrior

I have to go, but I will be right back. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Animal Mother

Checks watch.

Time is tough concept for the Young Earth crowd, but if anything I would expect "right now" to be even shorter, not 6 days and counting.

-ArtificialGrape

[Geko45]

Originally Posted by ArtificialGrape

Time is tough concept for the Young Earth crowd, but if anything I would expect "right now" to be even shorter, not 6 days and counting.

-ArtificialGrape

His cheek must still be sore from all the @#$%& slapping?

[G23Gen4TX]

Originally Posted by Geko45

His cheek must still be sore from all the @#$%& slapping?

He is checking his sources.

In other news, The Harry potter book is both historically and scientifically accurate. Prove that there are no flying brooms.

[Geko45]

Originally Posted by G23Gen4TX

In other news, The Harry potter book is both historically and scientifically accurate. Prove that there are no flying brooms.

Along that same vein, but entirely serious, Homer's Iliad is probably at least as accurate as the bible if not more so.

[ArtificialGrape]

2 weeks ago today, responding to Peace Warrior, Animal Mother wrote, "Let the fleeing begin."

2 minutes later Peace Warrior wrote, "I have to go, but I will be right back", not to be heard from again.

And so the prophecy came to pass.

-ArtificialGrape

[muscogee]

Originally Posted by OfficerChris

always entertaining that there are really people these days who believe the earth was made by God (one of the hundred gods in history of mankind).

While I visited the US I listened to some religious radio channel for fun. Just unbelievable what is going on in such a big educated, modern country.
If creationism makes it to the schools, the end is near... (dang)

And there are people who actually believe all that.

[Animal Mother]

Originally Posted by ArtificialGrape

2 weeks ago today, responding to Peace Warrior, Animal Mother wrote, "Let the fleeing begin."

2 minutes later Peace Warrior wrote, "I have to go, but I will be right back", not to be heard from again.

And so the prophecy came to pass.

Beware my powers.

[Geko45]

Originally Posted by Animal Mother

Beware my powers.