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Old 10-10-2012, 19:10   #1
G17Jake
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Application for ND oil refinery approved, would be first built in US in 30

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http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/376913/

Secretary of the Interior Ken Salazar today announced approval of an application from the Three Affiliated Tribes of the Fort Berthold Reservation for the refinery.
First built in 30 years. I hope it doesn't hit a roadblock.

Last edited by G17Jake; 10-10-2012 at 19:11..
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Old 10-10-2012, 19:19   #2
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With Barry in office, one never knows how this will turn out.
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Old 10-10-2012, 19:23   #3
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Now lets get some new nuke plants online, too! Investing in infrastructure is a great way to create jobs.
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Old 10-10-2012, 19:41   #4
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The Democrat running for Senate promise to install more refineries in ND. I about fell off my chair when I heard that one.

http://heidifornorthdakota.com/media...-and-refinery/
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Old 10-10-2012, 19:45   #5
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Good. We need more refineries and more wells. We are our own worst enemies in this topic.
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Old 10-10-2012, 19:51   #6
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Originally Posted by pesticidal View Post
The Democrat running for Senate promise to install more refineries in ND. I about fell off my chair when I heard that one.

http://heidifornorthdakota.com/media...-and-refinery/
If she came out and said anything but that she would never have a prayer...the oil boom is too important to the state economy. Now this particular refinery project has some help in the fact that it is partially funded by and located on one of the reservations. So they have the whole minority thing going although most of the jobs created will end up going to non-tribal members out of necessity.
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Old 10-10-2012, 20:15   #7
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If she came out and said anything but that she would never have a prayer...the oil boom is too important to the state economy. Now this particular refinery project has some help in the fact that it is partially funded by and located on one of the reservations. So they have the whole minority thing going although most of the jobs created will end up going to non-tribal members out of necessity.
I was wondering if that helped get the application approved.
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Old 10-14-2012, 19:21   #8
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Good, they can put it on the U.S. market instead of piping it to Houston and shipping it abroad.
Screw W's buddies.
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Old 10-14-2012, 19:39   #9
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Originally Posted by clint curtis View Post
Good, they can put it on the U.S. market instead of piping it to Houston and shipping it abroad.
Screw W's buddies.
Dosen't matter.....we will still buy it at the market price. 'Drill here' does nothing to help the prices we pay, there is no discount.
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Old 10-14-2012, 19:53   #10
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Dosen't matter.....we will still buy it at the market price. 'Drill here' does nothing to help the prices we pay, there is no discount.
Otherwise, the price wouldn't be so damn high in Alaska.
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Old 10-14-2012, 20:51   #11
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Now the sierra club and every other tree hugger bunch will head to court. Maybe in another thirty years.
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Old 10-14-2012, 21:52   #12
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Dosen't matter.....we will still buy it at the market price. 'Drill here' does nothing to help the prices we pay, there is no discount.
sadly most people don't understand that
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Old 10-15-2012, 04:12   #13
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Yes, I'm sure the fact that it is on 'reservation' land was a large factor in approval. I wonder how the production taxes will play out, compared to a refinery not on res land & not owned by 'Native Americans'.

Just saying, the way it goes around here is they make millions with tax advantaged casinos & then give pennies on the dollar to the local community as a goodwill gesture. They also sided with the lefties to come out against the wolf hunt in WI.
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Old 10-15-2012, 04:43   #14
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I guess the Indians figure it will be even more profitable than a casino?
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Old 10-15-2012, 05:13   #15
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Yes, it's a lot easier to make $$ if your tax & regulation liability is drastically lower than the competition. Look at the smoking laws, the Indian properties choose to pass on that law. The smokers have flocked to the smoker friendly casinos. No I don't smoke & never had, many say fine.

It's also easier to sell fuel when your taxes are much lower. On top of that, I'd expect Gov't $$ kicked in to encourage development on reservation property. The left is always squawking about 'corporate welfare' to big oil. You can also expect a streamlined permitting process compared to off res property. What's the status of that AZ refinery that's supposidly in the works?
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Old 10-15-2012, 07:37   #16
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Originally Posted by frank4570 View Post
Good. We need more refineries and more wells. We are our own worst enemies in this topic.
Why????

First oil refinery in 30 years.

Now stop and think about that.










In the last 30 years, our gasoline consumption has not increased to require another refinery IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY!

30 years ago, gasoline was $1 a gallon and we thought it was expensive. It's risen faster than inflation over that period (forget that it was $1 back in the late 90's) yet our consumption has not risen dramatically.

We don't need a whole lot more refineries. We don't need more wells. We need more truth.

Truth is: We have lots of oil.

Truth is: We are nowhere NEAR peak oil.

Truth is: We should run the Arabian fields DRY before tapping our own. (Why use ours now - they have more and are friendly to us.)

Truth is: Oil should be about $40/bbl and gasoline at $1.75. And none of that has to do with increasing production or refining.
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Old 10-15-2012, 09:02   #17
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We have had the exact same number of refineries in the US since the 70's yet the number of cars, planes and trains used in the US has steadily increased.

Its obvious we need more refineries.

The refinery I worked at was built in 1901 and was pegged at max production every year I was there.
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Old 10-15-2012, 09:30   #18
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sadly most people don't understand that
More supply=lower prices.
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Old 10-15-2012, 09:41   #19
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Dosen't matter.....we will still buy it at the market price. 'Drill here' does nothing to help the prices we pay, there is no discount.
Then explain why WTI is $20 less a barrel that Brent?

Isn't $20 (~18%) less a discount?

While you are at it - explain why natural gas is so much cheaper in the USA VS the rest of the world?

Both are market prices - which would you rather buy at?

IMHO the increase production & lower usage IN THE USA has lowered the price of WTI (VS Brent).

But why would anyone need proof that increasing supply and reducing demand lowers the price?

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Old 10-15-2012, 09:46   #20
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BTW - just because no new refineries have been built - the capacity of some existing refineries has increased DRAMATICALLY in the last 30 years.

It is much easier - from a regulatory & cost justification stand point - to increase existing facilities VS build new from scratch.

Last edited by Z71bill; 10-15-2012 at 09:58..
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Old 10-15-2012, 09:57   #21
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Really should be no need to point out the OBVIOUS -but this thread is full of fail.

Does drilling for oil, building & operating refineries in the USA -

Create good paying jobs?

Do we need good paying jobs?

Does producing our own energy increase our national security? Or would we be better off depending on other countries to supply our energy?



Even if we had to pay the same (forget about the DISCOUNT WTI is VS Brent) -- wouldn't you rather have the GOOD HIGH PAYING (with great benefits) jobs be IN America? Wouldn't you rather rely on American companies operating in America to provide your energy VS depending on oil from other countries?

Last edited by Z71bill; 10-15-2012 at 10:00..
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:06   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z71bill View Post
Really should be no need to point out the OBVIOUS -but this thread is full of fail.

Does drilling for oil, building & operating refineries in the USA -

Create good paying jobs?

Do we need good paying jobs?

Does producing our own energy increase our national security? Or would we be better off depending on other countries to supply our energy?



Even if we had to pay the same (forget about the DISCOUNT WTI is VS Brent) -- wouldn't you rather have the GOOD HIGH PAYING (with great benefits) jobs be IN America? Wouldn't you rather rely on American companies operating in America to provide your energy VS depending on oil from other countries?
So much win. IMO people hear a democratic/leftist talking point or maybe just read a blurb from an honest but misinformed editorialist and simply take it on faith that increased supply locally has no impact on local prices. What that really is is a misapplication of some economic theories about supply v. pricing disequilibriums holding true in the SHORT TERM. Current natural gas prices in the US completely prove this point too not just gasoline.
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:07   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis in MA View Post
Why????

First oil refinery in 30 years.

Now stop and think about that.










In the last 30 years, our gasoline consumption has not increased to require another refinery IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY!

30 years ago, gasoline was $1 a gallon and we thought it was expensive. It's risen faster than inflation over that period (forget that it was $1 back in the late 90's) yet our consumption has not risen dramatically.

We don't need a whole lot more refineries. We don't need more wells. We need more truth.

Truth is: We have lots of oil.

Truth is: We are nowhere NEAR peak oil.

Truth is: We should run the Arabian fields DRY before tapping our own. (Why use ours now - they have more and are friendly to us.)

Truth is: Oil should be about $40/bbl and gasoline at $1.75. And none of that has to do with increasing production or refining.
Truth is, you are not posting the truth.
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:58   #24
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A bunch of eco-groups will sue and tie it up in the courts for 20+ years. . .
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:04   #25
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So you think we are at peak oil and there is none left???? That there isn't enough capacity now to run worldwide production?

If supply/demand ran the prices of gasoline and crude oil, prices would be substantially cheaper now. It's perception that drives prices. And a few guided and misguided people who are controlling it.

BTW - for those out-of-the-know, you get more product out of a bbl of Brent vs. WTI. Price differential is higher than it should be right now (a function of the overall whackadoo pricing of oil) but it's ALWAYS higher because you get more out of it.
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