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Old 10-14-2012, 07:53   #26
RonS
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OK I spent some time reading up on the definition of entitlements re the federal budget and some of my beliefs were incorrect in light of that definition. I had heard how little of the budget congress can control but not really studied it.

I don't see any sane way to change it though. So many entitlements are things where the government pledged payment for services rendered over many years. To give congress the ability to cut them after the fact would be an invitation to abuse of the worst sort.

Then I think that the government should be much more limited in what they can do anyway. I wish they had left out that whole "general welfare" thing.
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Old 10-14-2012, 07:55   #27
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Originally Posted by RimfireMan View Post
The biggest social entitlement package is the GI Bill.
I see what you did there...
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Old 10-14-2012, 07:59   #28
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Originally Posted by RonS View Post
OK I spent some time reading up on the definition of entitlements re the federal budget and some of my beliefs were incorrect in light of that definition. I had heard how little of the budget congress can control but not really studied it.

I don't see any sane way to change it though. So many entitlements are things where the government pledged payment for services rendered over many years. To give congress the ability to cut them after the fact would be an invitation to abuse of the worst sort.

Then I think that the government should be much more limited in what they can do anyway. I wish they had left out that whole "general welfare" thing.
Yep, that is the whole conundrum. "Cut entitlements" makes for a great sound bite and rally cry but it really isn't that simple.
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:02   #29
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Originally Posted by frizz View Post
Why do you hate people in the military?
You made a pretty big leap from assuming that having an unsustainable Post 9/11 GI Bill (Which I'm currently using) coincides with hating people in the military.

Do you think its right that I've been out of the military for almost 18 months and I have lived entirely off of my GI Bill payments? (Bear in mind that I drive a Mercedes, own a Jetski, and have bought a scooter and 2 motorcycles)

Most people do not know the new GI bill, so they say "Well, you're obviously cheating the system/not going to school/not taking a full load"

No, thats not true. I have taken between 13-15 credit hours every semester including the entire summer. The new GI Bill pays your tuition separately from your housing allowance.

Its absolutely ridiculous. Am I complaining for ME? No. But as a fiscal conservative its absolutely ridiculous. Why is it ok to give someone $100,000+ in education benefits for 4 years of military service but not okay to give an injured person healthcare/disability money/foodstamps, etc? (Not implying you've said that, just making a statement on how there is a general hypocrisy among conservatives that military spending is ok - social spending is not. NONE of it is ok)
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:04   #30
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Now I get a S.S. check each month and some call me getting an ENTITLEMENT and a FREELOADER on the system.
No sir, you are not a Freeloader or getting an Entitlement. Social Security is not an Entitlement Program any more than a Lottery.
Welfare, on the other hand, is definitely an Entitlement program by my definition. I have tried to sum up what I feel below.
An Entitlement program is one where a person pays very little or nothing at all for benefits they receive later. GI Bill would only fit this if you place a minimum value on a soldier placing their life on the line on a battlefield. I place a great value on a soldier's sacrifice so I don't have a problem with them receiving an education after they have served. I do, however, have an issue with some lazy crack head on Welfare receiving a portion of my hard earned paycheck every month.
I live in a state with State Income Tax and I my wife and I pay a hefty amount each year. This happens so one of the lowlife, able bodied bums in my town can sit back, be a part of the 23% unemployment rate here and cruise around in a brand new SUV every year.

That, my friends, is an Entitlement Program.





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Old 10-14-2012, 08:07   #31
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Worked from age 16 to 65, paid a large amount of money into S.S. and had no choice about it.

Paid Income Taxes on the money I never saw in my check.
Whom ever I worked for paid an equal amont into my S.S. which was considered part of my salarly.
Most likely I would have been paid more if employer had not had to pay my S.S.

The last 25 yrs. of my working life, I paid the max in S.S. and my employer paid the same.

Now I get a S.S. check each month and some call me getting an ENTITLEMENT and a FREELOADER on the system.
Your money is GONE!!! It was spent a long ass time ago. You are now receiving my money. It's as simple as that.

Don't get me wrong, I understand promises were made, but it's time for us to man up as a society and tell anyone my age (25) and younger that we will not support you when you retire. You need to plan for your own retirement and start saving now. If you can't afford retirement when you get there, then you need to call your children and have them make a bed for you in the living room.

I would gladly pay the payroll taxes for the rest of my working life and never receive any of the benefits if it means that the entire SS system was shut down.

The problem is that no one is willing to be the one that gets hurt to save our country. It's impossible for us to continue doing what we're doing, someone is going to have to take the hurt and my generation is the only one young enough to recover.

Last edited by hockeyrcks9901; 10-14-2012 at 08:11..
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:09   #32
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Originally Posted by TENWHEELER View Post
No sir, you are not a Social Security is not an Entitlement Program any more than a Lottery.
Social Security IS an entitlement program by definition.
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:13   #33
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Originally Posted by hockeyrcks9901 View Post
Your money is GONE!!! It was spent a long ass time ago. You are now receiving my money. It's as simple as that.

Don't get me wrong, I understand promises were made, but it's time for us to man up as a society and tell anyone my age (25) and younger that we will not support you when you retire. You need to plan for your own retirement and start saving now. If you can't afford retirement when you get there, then you need to call your children and have them make a bed for you in the living room.

I would gladly pay the payroll taxes for the rest of my working life and never receive any of the benefits if it means that the entire SS system was shut down

The problem is that no one is willing to be the one that gets hurt to save our country. It's impossible for us to continue doing what we're doing, someone is going to have to take the hurt and my generation is the only one young enough to recover.
Would you be the first in line please.......!
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:16   #34
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Originally Posted by tous View Post
The truth is, the GI Bill is deferred compensation.

The deal is, you serve in the military for low pay and benefits for some number of years and defer a reasonable wage, we will pay the difference between what is reasonable and what you get while serving in the future.
Thank you Doug.


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Was the NROTC program I participated in during college an entitlement as well?

Youse was a college swabbie,I was a HS swabbie that growed up ta an Airborne Ranger.'08.


BTW folks,I paid for my own college.
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:21   #35
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Originally Posted by tous View Post
The truth is, the GI Bill is deferred compensation.

The deal is, you serve in the military for low pay and benefits for some number of years..........

low pay and benifits??

...quite the opposite
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:22   #36
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Originally Posted by dango View Post
Would you be the first in line please.......!
I already contribute 20% of my income to a 401k and a Roth IRA. My next goal is to max out my Roth IRA contributions but I just bought a new car, still have student loans, paying for my wedding (Oct 26th, excited), and planning to buy a house in January.

I plan to be able to retire at 57 being able to withdraw 100% of my working income until I'm 82 without counting any SS income and without counting anything my wife is putting aside, I believe she's doing 10%.



I know for a fact that SS will not be there when I retire, at least not in the capacity. And I am planning for it. To do otherwise would be foolish.

Last edited by hockeyrcks9901; 10-14-2012 at 08:23..
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:38   #37
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Originally Posted by ken grant View Post
Worked from age 16 to 65, paid a large amount of money into S.S. and had no choice about it.

Paid Income Taxes on the money I never saw in my check.
Whom ever I worked for paid an equal amont into my S.S. which was considered part of my salarly.
Most likely I would have been paid more if employer had not had to pay my S.S.

The last 25 yrs. of my working life, I paid the max in S.S. and my employer paid the same.

Now I get a S.S. check each month and some call me getting an ENTITLEMENT and a FREELOADER on the system.
You're likely to get back far more than was paid in. When SS was designed, the average life expectancy was about 67 years old.
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:41   #38
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Originally Posted by hockeyrcks9901 View Post
I already contribute 20% of my income to a 401k and a Roth IRA. My next goal is to max out my Roth IRA contributions but I just bought a new car, still have student loans, paying for my wedding (Oct 26th, excited), and planning to buy a house in January.

I plan to be able to retire at 57 being able to withdraw 100% of my working income until I'm 82 without counting any SS income and without counting anything my wife is putting aside, I believe she's doing 10%.



I know for a fact that SS will not be there when I retire, at least not in the capacity. And I am planning for it. To do otherwise would be foolish.
That would appear to be the the case and I wish I hadn't learned that so late in life. But , as always , I have have a card up my sleeve.........! Would I depend on anything but me ? No.........!
Advice: Don't solely depend on that 401 K.........!

Last edited by dango; 10-14-2012 at 08:43..
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:42   #39
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Fact is - 99% of the folks GETTING a check based on one or more of these entitlements not only think they deserve the cash - they absolutely believe in their heart that they have it coming to them - that they not only deserve it - but they earned it.



Some of the things every one of these entitlements have in common --

1. They can be changed at any time - all congress needs to do is pass a law -

2. They all TAKE money from one group and GIVE IT to another.

3. If the government can't borrow money from someone every week - the payments will not be made.

-------

Would America be a better place if MORE people could stand on their own and not be dependent on entitlement payments?

Anyone thing we would be better off if more people got a government check?
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:44   #40
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How do you get people to scale back their expectations of what government does for them without provoking a Greece/Spain push back that makes rational discussion and compromise impossible? Germany and Sweden seem to be moving in that direction, do we have the will or time as a nation?

Too many of these issues are just vote buying or vote extortion. "Vote for me, we have free phones." "If you vote for Red R. Republican he will take away your social security and euthanize your cat." "I promise to protect Medicare not matter what." "JoB hates tank builders and will leave our country unprotected and take away your job."
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:45   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ken grant View Post
Worked from age 16 to 65, paid a large amount of money into S.S. and had no choice about it.

Paid Income Taxes on the money I never saw in my check.
Whom ever I worked for paid an equal amont into my S.S. which was considered part of my salarly.
Most likely I would have been paid more if employer had not had to pay my S.S.

The last 25 yrs. of my working life, I paid the max in S.S. and my employer paid the same.

Now I get a S.S. check each month and some call me getting an ENTITLEMENT and a FREELOADER on the system.
Its a welfare check. Welfare for the elderly. Social Security and Medicare are bankrupting the nation.

You're pissed off about being called a freeloader? I'm pissed off about working to pay your welfare. I'm pissed about my kids and grandkids being indebted to pay your welfare.

If you didn't save enough for your retirement, too bad. I don't know you. I owe you nothing.

Last edited by certifiedfunds; 10-14-2012 at 08:48..
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:49   #42
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Its a welfare check. Welfare for the elderly. Social Security and Medicare are bankrupting the nation.

You're pissed off about being called a freeloader? I'm pissed off about working to pay your welfare. I'm pissed about my kids and grandkids being indebted to pay your welfare.

If you didn't save enough for your retirement, too bad.
If so why did I see every check money gone towards SSI.
They should of left the ****** alone and let ME make that choice.
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:51   #43
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Social Security IS an entitlement program by definition.
It's also a Ponzi scheme by definition. The earlier participants are being paid with the later employees contributions.
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:55   #44
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You're likely to get back far more than was paid in. When SS was designed, the average life expectancy was about 67 years old.
Many people die before reaching retirement. They got nothing back.
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:00   #45
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It's also a Ponzi scheme by definition. The earlier participants are being paid with the later employees contributions.
Just keep paying and my problem is less , then the ball is in your court and watch what you ask cause one medical issue can wipe you out..........!
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:01   #46
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If so why did I see every check money gone towards SSI.
They should of left the ****** alone and let ME make that choice.
Congress passed a law requiring you to make those payments.

They also decide if and how much money you will be entitled to.

I am 99.9% sure that by the time I am old enough they will have changed the law - and anyone with income above $XX will get zero.

Since I have planned, saved/invested - I will get nothing -

Idiots losers with no plan and no savings will still get a check.

Not only is social security an entitlement program - after these changes - it will encourage bad behavior (no savings) and punish good behavior.
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:06   #47
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Congress passed a law requiring you to make those payments.

They also decide if and how much money you will be entitled to.

I am 99.9% sure that by the time I am old enough they will have changed the law - and anyone with income above $XX will get zero.

Since I have planned, saved/invested - I will get nothing -

Idiots losers with no plan and no savings will still get a check.

Not only is social security an entitlement program - after these changes - it will encourage bad behavior (no savings) and punish good behavior.
You people are oblivious to the real problem that is inevitable
in your life time , you can't eat money ! BACK TO THE LAND !
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:11   #48
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Its not an entitlement if its earned or contributed to.

Handouts are another story.

If you paid into SS, you get, same for medicare.
If you served in the .mil, you get veterans benefits. Period.

Obama phones, food stamps, welfare, EITC, are another story. Cut off completely except for the most dire of circumstances.
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:19   #49
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You're likely to get back far more than was paid in. When SS was designed, the average life expectancy was about 67 years old.
Please google compound interest. There is no way the government isn't making out better on than you on this deal.
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:23   #50
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Please google compound interest. There is no way the government isn't making out better on than you on this deal.
Alass , hope......................!
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