GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-17-2012, 13:10   #276
nursetim
Senior Member
 
nursetim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: liberalville N. M.
Posts: 6,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by fwm View Post
Actually, as a group, conservatives are the most educated, self starters and self thinkers in any country. They don't believe 'the pablum spoon fed to them'. They agree with certain facts because they have researched the truth before believing anything.

You don't find conservatives in mobs blindly following whoever speaks the floweriest or loudest, you find the liberals. 68 Democratic convention, OWS are two that come to mind.
OH SNAP! Oh no you dinit. Oh no yo dinit go and use a historical reference to shut the brother down.
__________________
Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietum servitium. - I prefer liberty with danger to peace with slavery.
nursetim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2012, 15:19   #277
skippz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: East Kentucky
Posts: 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by frizz View Post


Before you form an opinion on a subject, you should know the facts about it. Your opinion shows that you don't understand SS disability.

Getting SS disability isn't easy. As a matter of fact, depending on the political climate and other factors, pretty much everyone is turned down on the first application. That has to be appealed to an administrative law judge or higher, and that pretty much requires a lawyer.

Even then, there are usually periodic reviews

The notion of someone breaking a thumb and getting SS disability is preposterous. I have a neighbor who was a self-employed house painter. He is in his 40s, and had a brain aneurism.

He cannot use his right arm, and walks with great difficulty. His ability to speak is very limited; his vocabulary is limited to maybe 30 words. There is no way he could get any job.

Despite this, he was denied on his initial application, and had to appeal to get the benefits.
My friend, your area is much different than mine. I'm 30 years old, I work in the medical field and see day in and day out people much younger than me who draw disability/SSI... They get it much too easily. Now the broken thumb I mentioned was an analogy, but I have seen people be granted disability for broken bones (legs & arms) that have totally healed and present no further debilitation... There's attorneys here who all but guarantee clients will be approved for it... So don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.
skippz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2012, 17:04   #278
ttowndeputy
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 20
Negative GI Bill comments..

To those of you that think the new GI bill is an unnecessary "entitlement" program. I would wonder if you ever had the guts to enlist, and serve your country? Or perhaps you'd rather complain about those of us that proudly wore the uniform...I'd rather have my tax dollars going to a program like this, than be wasted on lazy welfare mutts!
ttowndeputy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2012, 18:31   #279
FLGatorFan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by nursetim View Post

I had an Adam Henry come into my office sucking around for SSI disability because he was depressed about being unemployed, despite working occasionally off the books. I came up with an awesome treatment plan for this jackwagon, and he blows it off, bucket of monkey jizz.
FLGatorFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2012, 19:50   #280
IQof1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 598
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttowndeputy View Post
To those of you that think the new GI bill is an unnecessary "entitlement" program. I would wonder if you ever had the guts to enlist, and serve your country? Or perhaps you'd rather complain about those of us that proudly wore the uniform...I'd rather have my tax dollars going to a program like this, than be wasted on lazy welfare mutts!
+1 this
IQof1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2012, 20:09   #281
Scott3670
Senior Member
 
Scott3670's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 2,209
My wife currently receives SSI disability. She has had 5 spinal surgeries including a 2-stage fusion and a spinal cord stimulator. Despite this, she actually had to go to court to fight for her disability. The judge, when presented with the incontrovertible medical evidence (which was validated by his medical expert), approved her disability. In fact, the only reason my wife had to go to court was that she was only 41 at the time and the judge wanted to see for himself that she truly met the criteria for disability. I truly applaud the judge's decision to personally evaluate her condition - and wish all cases were subjected to such an evaluation.
__________________
-Scott


Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid.
Scott3670 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2012, 07:47   #282
Z71bill
Senior Member
 
Z71bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 10,846
The problem is OUT OF CONTROL government spending.

A BIG part of every entitlement - and I mean all entitlements - social security, medicare & GI bill - were all - at least in part passed into law --

TO GET VOTES -- so someone could get REELECTED.

The problem with entitlements is you pass stuff that gives people things - mostly in the future - so it is easy to overspend.

As a result of all of these past "promises" we are heading into a financial crisis.

DO THE MATH -

Even under current spending - if we had to balance the federal budget - EVERY TAXPAYER would see their FEDERAL taxes (income + payroll) increase by 40%.

The real question is -

You want to keep the government entitlement checks flowing - and pay 40% more in taxes - or cut back on some of the entitlements.

If you do a little reading you will quickly figure out that the REAL HEAVY spending - the things that future payments are talked about in TRILLIONS - are the very programs that some here are claiming are NOT really entitlements because - I paid into SS - or I earned theses entitlement benefits.

All the other (true) welfare is real money too - but it is small potatoes compared to the others.

The bottom line is - IT DOES NOT MATTER IF THEY ARE earned or deferred compensation - because there is just not enough money in the country to pay for all of the promises.

Last edited by Z71bill; 10-18-2012 at 07:50..
Z71bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2012, 07:56   #283
dherloc
X-Nuc
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,249
Since the debate is primarily about which "entitlement" program should be cut...will use 40% as the lets balance it out standard since it was recently brought up.

Why not a 40% across the board cut for EVERYONE and EVERYTHING that the government spends money on? Mr. Prez...you get a 40% pay cut. Mr. E-1...so do you. Foreign aid...40%. SS recipients...40%. EVERYONE. Road budget...40%. Grants to study fruit fly wing size...40%. Cancer research...40%. Section 8...40%. EVERYTHING. You get the idea.

No hike in taxes, spending is suddenly under control, and we go from there.

Lets face it...never going to happen. Greece, here we come!
__________________
USN 87-93
CVN-71
Ex-Nuc RO

Last edited by dherloc; 10-18-2012 at 07:57..
dherloc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2012, 08:05   #284
mgs
Always Carrying
 
mgs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: cogan station, pa, usa
Posts: 3,186
Entitlement (700 billion) has now exceeded spending of the Defense Department (500 billion)....that is a nightmare!
mgs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2012, 08:11   #285
certifiedfunds
Platinum Membership
Tewwowist
 
certifiedfunds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 39,719


Quote:
Originally Posted by mgs View Post
Entitlement (700 billion) has now exceeded spending of the Defense Department (500 billion)....that is a nightmare!
Welfare spending is well in excess of $700B. It is right near total annual federal revenue of $2.2T.

Social security and Medicare alone are right about $1T.
certifiedfunds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2012, 08:14   #286
mgs
Always Carrying
 
mgs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: cogan station, pa, usa
Posts: 3,186
Quote:
Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
Welfare spending is well in excess of $700B. It is right near total annual federal revenue of $2.2T.

Social security and Medicare alone are right about $1T.
Yikes!!!! Thanks but this has to stop!
mgs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2012, 08:16   #287
certifiedfunds
Platinum Membership
Tewwowist
 
certifiedfunds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 39,719


Quote:
Originally Posted by mgs View Post
Yikes!!!! Thanks but this has to stop!
Pretty much every dime of tax revenue is spent on welfare. Debt funds everything else, including DOD
certifiedfunds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2012, 08:42   #288
nursetim
Senior Member
 
nursetim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: liberalville N. M.
Posts: 6,613
The cuts that would have to be made will never be made as they are too dramatic. We could shut down the government and fold the tents, and it still would not help. Maybe taking the check book away from the politicians and the beurocrats, I don't like them enough to spell their title correctly, but then who do you give it to?

The answer is, drum roll please. There is no answer. We will default at some point and Argentina's fate will be ours. Oh joy.
__________________
Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietum servitium. - I prefer liberty with danger to peace with slavery.
nursetim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2012, 12:34   #289
series1811
CLM Number
Enforcerator.
 
series1811's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Retired, but not expired.
Posts: 14,311
Quote:
Originally Posted by dherloc View Post
Since the debate is primarily about which "entitlement" program should be cut...will use 40% as the lets balance it out standard since it was recently brought up.

Why not a 40% across the board cut for EVERYONE and EVERYTHING that the government spends money on? Mr. Prez...you get a 40% pay cut. Mr. E-1...so do you. Foreign aid...40%. SS recipients...40%. EVERYONE. Road budget...40%. Grants to study fruit fly wing size...40%. Cancer research...40%. Section 8...40%. EVERYTHING. You get the idea.

No hike in taxes, spending is suddenly under control, and we go from there.

Lets face it...never going to happen. Greece, here we come!
That illustrates the problem in a very understandable way. A 40 per cent across the board cut in everything is about what it would take to balance the budget and to start to take care of the debt.

But, most of the federal programs have lobbiest who will start handing out money to Congressmen (and the President) to get their 40 per cent cut removed. And, then we are right back were we started.
__________________
I sure miss the country I grew up in.
series1811 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2012, 13:20   #290
muscogee
Senior Member
 
muscogee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 6,841


Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
That is obvious that you dont know how it works.

Are you OK with a system that you are only entitled to go to PUBLIC hospitals and CANNOT go to the better PRIVATE hospitals because you can't afford it?

Are you OK with waiting in line 8 hours for a shot at a public hospital?

Are you OK with being in a ward (no rooms) with 20 other patients?
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/18/op...tion.html?_r=0

Quote from one of the comments,

Quote:
bookmanjbMunichNYT Pick

Here in Germany, to where I moved from the US 8 years ago, there is no question about this issue and has not been for decades. Here we have what amounts to a PRIVATE option. That's right, everyone is mandated to pay into the system but one has the right to opt out of the system and buy one's own insurance, which is what I do. Here's what I get: 90% of the first 4000 euros and then 100% thereafter, including dental!!!--NO DEDUCTIBLE. One pair of glasses every two years, unless my prescription changes, in which case, another pair as needed. Semi-private room for hospitalization. I choose any doctors I want. My daughter is named on my policy and receives the same 90%/100% deal. If I make no claims in a calendar year, I get a 25% refund of my annual premium cost. That's right; the insurance companies incentivize wellness BECAUSE IT INCREASES THEIR PROFITS. All of this costs me less than 25% of what the same coverage (if it were available) would cost me in the States. Doctors & insurance company execs earn upper-middle class incomes and occasionally become rich. The quality of the care is excellent. And oh, I forgot to mention my wife. She is publicly insured. Her publicly mandated payments are 149 euros per month and she pays ten euros per doctor per quarter.

I sure wish I was back in the States so I could have my freedoms and liberties back.
That doesn't match what you said.
__________________
"We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes."

Leona Helmsley
muscogee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2012, 13:29   #291
certifiedfunds
Platinum Membership
Tewwowist
 
certifiedfunds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 39,719


Quote:
Originally Posted by muscogee View Post
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/18/op...tion.html?_r=0

Quote from one of the comments,



That doesn't match what you said.
Did you even read the article you quoted? The guy's friend had a good paying job with insurance, and then quit that job to "read books and play poker" making $13,000 per year.

Then he was diagnosed with prostate cancer.

Is that what you folks think should happen? Guy quits his job to "read books and play poker" and the taxpayers should pick up his healthcare costs when he gets cancer?

What idiots.

Choices have consequences. Quit trying to paper over them with other people's money.

Last edited by certifiedfunds; 10-18-2012 at 14:39..
certifiedfunds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2012, 16:18   #292
Z71bill
Senior Member
 
Z71bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 10,846
Quote:
Originally Posted by series1811 View Post
That illustrates the problem in a very understandable way. A 40 per cent across the board cut in everything is about what it would take to balance the budget and to start to take care of the debt.

But, most of the federal programs have lobbyist who will start handing out money to Congressmen (and the President) to get their 40 per cent cut removed. And, then we are right back were we started.
Actually - in nice round numbers --

it is 40% increase in taxes -- but 29% cut in spending-- to balance the budget.

1 trillion deficit
2.5 trillion tax revenue
3.5 trillion spending

1/2.5 = 40% tax increase

But only 1/3.5 = 29% spending cut.

Don't you feel better that we only need to cut about 30% instead of 40%?

Last edited by Z71bill; 10-18-2012 at 16:18..
Z71bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2012, 16:36   #293
certifiedfunds
Platinum Membership
Tewwowist
 
certifiedfunds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 39,719


Quote:
Originally Posted by Z71bill View Post
Actually - in nice round numbers --

it is 40% increase in taxes -- but 29% cut in spending-- to balance the budget.

1 trillion deficit
2.5 trillion tax revenue
3.5 trillion spending

1/2.5 = 40% tax increase

But only 1/3.5 = 29% spending cut.

Don't you feel better that we only need to cut about 30% instead of 40%?
That should be clarified, increase in tax revenue, not tax rates. You know the two aren't the same thing.
certifiedfunds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2012, 22:54   #294
DanaT
Pharaoh
 
DanaT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CO & Baden –Württemberg
Posts: 15,827
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
That should be clarified, increase in tax revenue, not tax rates. You know the two aren't the same thing.
People don't know that and that is where Romney isn't explaining it. Obama has people believing that the only way to get more revenue is to raise to raise the rate on another group. He wants a bigger of
The same sized (or smaller) pie. He can't see that a smaller piece of bigger may actually be more pie.

For those that have a hard time with math. Which is more? A half of a 3lb chicken or a quarter of a 15lb turkey?




Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
__________________
Quote:
Twice a week? 14 times a month?
Quote:
2x4=8, not 14.
Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view.
DanaT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 06:06   #295
boomhower
Senior Member
 
boomhower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,278
Quote:
Originally Posted by frizz View Post


Before you form an opinion on a subject, you should know the facts about it. Your opinion shows that you don't understand SS disability.

Getting SS disability isn't easy. As a matter of fact, depending on the political climate and other factors, pretty much everyone is turned down on the first application. That has to be appealed to an administrative law judge or higher, and that pretty much requires a lawyer.

Even then, there are usually periodic reviews

The notion of someone breaking a thumb and getting SS disability is preposterous. I have a neighbor who was a self-employed house painter. He is in his 40s, and had a brain aneurism.

He cannot use his right arm, and walks with great difficulty. His ability to speak is very limited; his vocabulary is limited to maybe 30 words. There is no way he could get any job.

Despite this, he was denied on his initial application, and had to appeal to get the benefits.
It must vary on locality. My area has gotten to be known as the place to go to get a check. They have even started to come from neighboring states. The city keeps building more projects and more and more come. No one works. The side-effect is business has stopped coming. It's gone on so long there is no longer a workforce here. If a company came in and wanted to hire 150 workers for factory jobs they couldn't do it. Out of 15,000 people in this town they could not find 150 people who:

1. don't have a better job(schools system, city, county, or hospital)
2. Graduated HS or have GED
3. Could pass a drug test
4. Have a clean enough criminal background
5. Actually want to work.

It just wouldn't happen. Everyone is happy sitting at home collecting there checks. I deal with these folks everyday. 25 years old with three or four kids collecting checks. I actually had a woman with a three month old baby getting an SSI check because the baby had ADD. How the hell to you diagnose ADD in the three month old? Tell me it isn't a racket for crooked docs/lawyers and I call BS.

The system is going to break on day and it isn't going to be pretty.
boomhower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 13:35   #296
ken grant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: middle ga.
Posts: 1,239
S.S. was doing great until the Politicians saw how much money was in the fund and decided to dip into it to fund other projects.
ken grant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 15:00   #297
Z71bill
Senior Member
 
Z71bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 10,846
Quote:
Originally Posted by ken grant View Post
S.S. was doing great until the Politicians saw how much money was in the fund and decided to dip into it to fund other projects.
I think -

When status of SS is reported they count the IOU's from the cash borrowed and spent from the general fund as part of the assets available to meet the entitlements.

So - on one hand the money being taken does not change the point where SS will "run out of money" that the CBO does. They are making the assumption that the government will pay back the government.

But of course it does matter - because the federal government will need to (most likely) borrow the money to pay back the SS "trust" fund from someplace else.

IMHO even if the cash was not drained off and spent - it would still be an overstatement to say SS was doing great before.

If this was a company type pension plan it would show as underfunded by TRILLIONS of dollars either way.

Ponzi scheme would be more accurate description -

Last edited by Z71bill; 10-19-2012 at 16:13..
Z71bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 15:11   #298
certifiedfunds
Platinum Membership
Tewwowist
 
certifiedfunds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 39,719


Quote:
Originally Posted by ken grant View Post
S.S. was doing great until the Politicians saw how much money was in the fund and decided to dip into it to fund other projects.
Think about the very premise of SS doing great. Is that really what you consider a positive thing?

Basically you're saying that the citizens are being taxed at a greater amount than the program is paying out.

Why is it good ?
certifiedfunds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 22:16   #299
skippz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: East Kentucky
Posts: 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by boomhower View Post
It must vary on locality. My area has gotten to be known as the place to go to get a check. They have even started to come from neighboring states. The city keeps building more projects and more and more come. No one works. The side-effect is business has stopped coming. It's gone on so long there is no longer a workforce here. If a company came in and wanted to hire 150 workers for factory jobs they couldn't do it. Out of 15,000 people in this town they could not find 150 people who:

1. don't have a better job(schools system, city, county, or hospital)
2. Graduated HS or have GED
3. Could pass a drug test
4. Have a clean enough criminal background
5. Actually want to work.

It just wouldn't happen. Everyone is happy sitting at home collecting there checks. I deal with these folks everyday. 25 years old with three or four kids collecting checks. I actually had a woman with a three month old baby getting an SSI check because the baby had ADD. How the hell to you diagnose ADD in the three month old? Tell me it isn't a racket for crooked docs/lawyers and I call BS.

The system is going to break on day and it isn't going to be pretty.
Same in my neck of the woods... It's actually sad because there are ppl who are truly disabled, and they have so many hoops to jump thru because of the lazy a**es that collect it undeservingly, all the while doing handyman work off the books for cash.
skippz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 22:24   #300
.264 magnum
CLM Number 121
Charter Lifetime Member
 
.264 magnum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Dallas TX
Posts: 16,634
Quote:
Originally Posted by RimfireMan View Post
The biggest social entitlement package is the GI Bill.
That makes no sense at all to me. Can you explain?
__________________
The Gonzales Flag - "Come and Take It!"
.264 magnum is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:44.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,067
352 Members
715 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42