Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-19-2012, 18:57   #61
alwaysshootin
Senior Member
 
alwaysshootin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,060
Quote:
Originally Posted by G26AZ View Post
Actually, it WAS NOT dead when it hit the ground. If you look closely at about 1:30 in the video (1st video in the thread) when the guy is jumping around with both hands in the air yelling "whoo hoo!!", you can see the elk still flopping around in the background over his right shoulder (left side of screen).
So, it DID NOT appear to be a very humane kill to me! Instead of standing there doing his victory dance, he should have been putting the poor elk out of its misery
Yes it was! With all do respect, have doubt you've experienced killing an animal. Ever gone out back to dispatch a chicken or turkey, for the oven? You do so by chopping off the head. What does the fowl do, immediately? Should you then shoot it to put it out of it's misery? Of course not, it's dead, it's just that it's nervous system, doesn't know it yet. Same with the elk, it was dead before it hit the ground, just had the death run left in it's nervous system that it had to expel.
__________________
If guns kill people, then, I can blame my pencil on my spelling!
alwaysshootin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2012, 12:33   #62
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 16,020
Quote:
Originally Posted by JW1178 View Post
I am not a hunter, but I am pro-hunting. I am against inhumane hunting such as trapping and I'm on the fence about bow hunting. Trapping isn't hunting, it's cruel and for lazy idiots that can't hunt. At least bow hunting you have to hunt. I believe that a kill needs to be made fast and have minimal suffering to the animal.

A 10mm I do believe will take out a deer, especially the kind here in the south. They are rather small. It's all about the hunter's skill. As long as they can take a shot they know they can actually take the animal, not just shoot it to see if they can hit it.

A buddy of mine is an animal control officer. He's told me a lot of how the meth head hicks out here all think they are hunters because they wear mossy oak jackets and will shoot at anything they can with whatever they have and all they end up with is wounded animals which usually die of infection or disease due to these wounds. These idiots that want to kill something to feel like a man are not hunters. The hunters I know take it very seriously.
I have never thought of trapping in these terms. It has never crossed my mind.
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 15:07   #63
dougader
Senior Member
 
dougader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: OryGun
Posts: 3,407
You guys that think it's necessary to hunt deer with a 30-06, or elk with a 338 Win Mag would do well to read this little treatise by John Linebaugh:

http://www.customsixguns.com/writing...un_hunting.htm

I have known men and women to take all kinds of game with 10mm, 45 Super, 44 Special, 44 mag, 41 mag, and 45 Colt (with factory ammo and 30k psi handloads). While some keep their shots limited to 35 yards or so, some have taken shots over 100 yards and taken their game cleanly.

Max Prasac, author of Big-Bore Handguns and a regular columnist with Bear Hunting and Boar Hunting magazines, lists several hunters in his book who rountinely take game with revolvers. Muzzle energy figures really don't come into play like they do with rifle hunting. Sure some are taking game with revolvers bigger than your average 41 mag, but they are also taking BIG, dangerous game like grizzly, cape buffalo and moose. Who thought you could drop a moose at 100 yards with a revolver???

When Ross Seyfired first hunted Cape Buffalo, it was with a 5-shot 45 Colt. The guides there thought he was nuts. By the time he left, they were referring to his 45 as the "small 458."

This isn't trick shooting or sleight of hand. It happens all the time.

Deer with a 10mm? Pffsssst, it's nothing. A nice broadside shot through boths lungs will exit the buck, and drop him humanely.
__________________
Doug

"In St. Louis, armed Homeland Security agents monitored Tea Party members protesting the IRS. Good idea. When people think their government is out to get them, the best response is to send the government out to get them." -Fred Thompson
dougader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 16:10   #64
uz2bUSMC
10mm defender
 
uz2bUSMC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: J-Ville NC
Posts: 3,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougader View Post
You guys that think it's necessary to hunt deer with a 30-06, or elk with a 338 Win Mag would do well to read this little treatise by John Linebaugh:

http://www.customsixguns.com/writing...un_hunting.htm

I have known men and women to take all kinds of game with 10mm, 45 Super, 44 Special, 44 mag, 41 mag, and 45 Colt (with factory ammo and 30k psi handloads). While some keep their shots limited to 35 yards or so, some have taken shots over 100 yards and taken their game cleanly.

Max Prasac, author of Big-Bore Handguns and a regular columnist with Bear Hunting and Boar Hunting magazines, lists several hunters in his book who rountinely take game with revolvers. Muzzle energy figures really don't come into play like they do with rifle hunting. Sure some are taking game with revolvers bigger than your average 41 mag, but they are also taking BIG, dangerous game like grizzly, cape buffalo and moose. Who thought you could drop a moose at 100 yards with a revolver???

When Ross Seyfired first hunted Cape Buffalo, it was with a 5-shot 45 Colt. The guides there thought he was nuts. By the time he left, they were referring to his 45 as the "small 458."

This isn't trick shooting or sleight of hand. It happens all the time.

Deer with a 10mm? Pffsssst, it's nothing. A nice broadside shot through boths lungs will exit the buck, and drop him humanely.
Good post!
__________________
- Without idiots, there would be no baseline for common sense.

- "Our country went through a transition during the last election where the parasites came together and outnumbered the hosts." -jdavionic
uz2bUSMC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 16:55   #65
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 16,020
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougader View Post
You guys that think it's necessary to hunt deer with a 30-06, or elk with a 338 Win Mag would do well to read this little treatise by John Linebaugh:

http://www.customsixguns.com/writing...un_hunting.htm

I have known men and women to take all kinds of game with 10mm, 45 Super, 44 Special, 44 mag, 41 mag, and 45 Colt (with factory ammo and 30k psi handloads). While some keep their shots limited to 35 yards or so, some have taken shots over 100 yards and taken their game cleanly.

Max Prasac, author of Big-Bore Handguns and a regular columnist with Bear Hunting and Boar Hunting magazines, lists several hunters in his book who rountinely take game with revolvers. Muzzle energy figures really don't come into play like they do with rifle hunting. Sure some are taking game with revolvers bigger than your average 41 mag, but they are also taking BIG, dangerous game like grizzly, cape buffalo and moose. Who thought you could drop a moose at 100 yards with a revolver???

When Ross Seyfired first hunted Cape Buffalo, it was with a 5-shot 45 Colt. The guides there thought he was nuts. By the time he left, they were referring to his 45 as the "small 458."

This isn't trick shooting or sleight of hand. It happens all the time.

Deer with a 10mm? Pffsssst, it's nothing. A nice broadside shot through boths lungs will exit the buck, and drop him humanely.
Good post indeed!
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 17:23   #66
alwaysshootin
Senior Member
 
alwaysshootin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,060
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougader View Post
You guys that think it's necessary to hunt deer with a 30-06, or elk with a 338 Win Mag would do well to read this little treatise by John Linebaugh:

http://www.customsixguns.com/writing...un_hunting.htm

I have known men and women to take all kinds of game with 10mm, 45 Super, 44 Special, 44 mag, 41 mag, and 45 Colt (with factory ammo and 30k psi handloads). While some keep their shots limited to 35 yards or so, some have taken shots over 100 yards and taken their game cleanly.

Max Prasac, author of Big-Bore Handguns and a regular columnist with Bear Hunting and Boar Hunting magazines, lists several hunters in his book who rountinely take game with revolvers. Muzzle energy figures really don't come into play like they do with rifle hunting. Sure some are taking game with revolvers bigger than your average 41 mag, but they are also taking BIG, dangerous game like grizzly, cape buffalo and moose. Who thought you could drop a moose at 100 yards with a revolver???

When Ross Seyfired first hunted Cape Buffalo, it was with a 5-shot 45 Colt. The guides there thought he was nuts. By the time he left, they were referring to his 45 as the "small 458."

This isn't trick shooting or sleight of hand. It happens all the time.

Deer with a 10mm? Pffsssst, it's nothing. A nice broadside shot through boths lungs will exit the buck, and drop him humanely.
Nicely played dougader, nicely played!
__________________
If guns kill people, then, I can blame my pencil on my spelling!
alwaysshootin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 18:11   #67
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 16,020
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougader View Post
You guys that think it's necessary to hunt deer with a 30-06, or elk with a 338 Win Mag would do well to read this little treatise by John Linebaugh:

http://www.customsixguns.com/writing...un_hunting.htm

I have known men and women to take all kinds of game with 10mm, 45 Super, 44 Special, 44 mag, 41 mag, and 45 Colt (with factory ammo and 30k psi handloads). While some keep their shots limited to 35 yards or so, some have taken shots over 100 yards and taken their game cleanly.

Max Prasac, author of Big-Bore Handguns and a regular columnist with Bear Hunting and Boar Hunting magazines, lists several hunters in his book who rountinely take game with revolvers. Muzzle energy figures really don't come into play like they do with rifle hunting. Sure some are taking game with revolvers bigger than your average 41 mag, but they are also taking BIG, dangerous game like grizzly, cape buffalo and moose. Who thought you could drop a moose at 100 yards with a revolver???

When Ross Seyfired first hunted Cape Buffalo, it was with a 5-shot 45 Colt. The guides there thought he was nuts. By the time he left, they were referring to his 45 as the "small 458."

This isn't trick shooting or sleight of hand. It happens all the time.

Deer with a 10mm? Pffsssst, it's nothing. A nice broadside shot through boths lungs will exit the buck, and drop him humanely.
I cannot imagine going after a Cape Buffalo with a 5-shot .45 LC revolver.
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 22:27   #68
dougader
Senior Member
 
dougader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: OryGun
Posts: 3,407
Quote:
Originally Posted by uz2bUSMC View Post
Good post!
I'm embarrassed, frankly, that I spelled Ross' last name wrong. It should be Seyfried.

Ross' 45 Colt load used a 350 grain Keith style SWC loaded up around 50,000 psi IIRC. Not much difference than today's 454 Casull.
__________________
Doug

"In St. Louis, armed Homeland Security agents monitored Tea Party members protesting the IRS. Good idea. When people think their government is out to get them, the best response is to send the government out to get them." -Fred Thompson
dougader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2012, 12:00   #69
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 16,020
Quote:
Originally Posted by G26AZ View Post
Actually, it WAS NOT dead when it hit the ground. If you look closely at about 1:30 in the video (1st video in the thread) when the guy is jumping around with both hands in the air yelling "whoo hoo!!", you can see the elk still flopping around in the background over his right shoulder (left side of screen).
So, it DID NOT appear to be a very humane kill to me! Instead of standing there doing his victory dance, he should have been putting the poor elk out of its misery
I agree 100%.
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 20:50   #70
dougader
Senior Member
 
dougader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: OryGun
Posts: 3,407
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster View Post
I agree 100%.
Well, the first shot was at about 1:20, the 2nd shot was at about 1:23. When that elk fell, it was all over, and he wasn't feeling a thing. So, at 1:30 - some 8 seconds after the first shot, and 7 seconds after the 2nd shot - we see a leg move. I wonder if you have ever seen an animal taken during a hunt before, or killed by a car, or killed for slaughter, or a pet dog "put down" by a little boy with tears running down his face.

Some animals drop and don't even twitch, but many do shake and twitch and roll around a bit even if hit in the head with a 30-06 at 10 feet. My Dad was the guy who shot a 700 pound steer for slaughter and I was there to see it. The steer was dead right there, but the legs were still moving as if he was trying to run away. He wasn't alive, his brain was gone!

Some deer run and bound away for 100 yards or more even when hit solidly through the lungs and heart. Some drop like they were struck by lightening.

I have seen a headless chicken chase a screaming girl down the road after it's head had been chopped off. The little girl was my sister. I have seen a cat crushed by a car, yet the nerve spasms caused the animal to bounce up and down over and over at about 3 feet in the air!

I was the little boy who had to put his own dog down. I was 6 or 7 years old. Hard fact of farm life: there is no money to take pets to the vet. Money goes for animals that end up in the freezer. The little guy tried to jump into the car just as my brother was shutting his door. That 1964 Mercury door snapped the dog's neck, and I wasn't about to let my mom screw it up and make it worse. I put that bullet right through the middle of Ben's brain pan... and he shook and quivered while I held him and cried. It probably only lasted for 5 or 6 seconds, but it was the longest wait I had ever experienced.

So, I disagree with your assessment. My experience tells me different.
__________________
Doug

"In St. Louis, armed Homeland Security agents monitored Tea Party members protesting the IRS. Good idea. When people think their government is out to get them, the best response is to send the government out to get them." -Fred Thompson
dougader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 23:25   #71
frank4570
Feral human
 
frank4570's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cul Va
Posts: 17,524
Blog Entries: 1
I've killed deer with my 10mm. With hollow points the wound channel is very similar to a broadhead arrow. And the deer react a lot like they have been hit by a 3 blade broadhead, they run.
Not at all similar to a rifle hit which usually drops deer so fast it's like lightening or something.
__________________
Fear your government.
"Rats aren't creepy, experimenting on them IS." Emilie Autumn.

For too long people have said "screw NY, IL, etc" or "that'll never happen here." Yes, it will eventually. If we dont start standing up together now, it will never stop.-ilgunguygt
frank4570 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 00:00   #72
NEOH212
Diesel Girl
 
NEOH212's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: North East Ohio
Posts: 9,091
There's no way it was a 10mm. There wouldn't be any Elk left much less a forest for the trees!



__________________
When you finish speaking, don't forget to wipe.
NEOH212 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 02:48   #73
alwaysshootin
Senior Member
 
alwaysshootin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,060
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEOH212 View Post
There's no way it was a 10mm. There wouldn't be any Elk left much less a forest for the trees!



For sure! If the "TEN", were used, there would have been a pronounced "mist" on the exit wound. That mist, would be the entrails, exiting!!!!!!!!!!!

__________________
If guns kill people, then, I can blame my pencil on my spelling!
alwaysshootin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 08:11   #74
SDGlock23
Glockoholic
 
SDGlock23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Land of Forgetfulness
Posts: 7,671
The dead give away that it wasn't a 10mm is that the surrounding trees were not flattened by the blast and the entire elk would have instantly turned into a pile of goo with that tremendous amount of energy passing through it. Additionally the camera lens would have shattered and most likely the shooter and camera man would have blacked out due the the concussion of the 10mm detonation.
__________________
"Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance."
SDGlock23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 11:37   #75
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 16,020
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDGlock23 View Post
The dead give away that it wasn't a 10mm is that the surrounding trees were not flattened by the blast and the entire elk would have instantly turned into a pile of goo with that tremendous amount of energy passing through it. Additionally the camera lens would have shattered and most likely the shooter and camera man would have blacked out due the the concussion of the 10mm detonation.
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 07:03   #76
Michael Rye
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,206
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougader View Post
I'm embarrassed, frankly, that I spelled Ross' last name wrong. It should be Seyfried.

Ross' 45 Colt load used a 350 grain Keith style SWC loaded up around 50,000 psi IIRC. Not much difference than today's 454 Casull.
Yep. Definitely not a 45 Colt cowboy load. He was using a specialty converted revolver, and his loading basically was equivalent to 454 Casull. Seyfried has stated that the 454 Casull is not needed as the 45 Colt can be loaded to do anything the 454 Casull can, provided the particular gun is strong enough to handle it.
Michael Rye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 14:10   #77
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 16,020
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Rye View Post
Yep. Definitely not a 45 Colt cowboy load. He was using a specialty converted revolver, and his loading basically was equivalent to 454 Casull. Seyfried has stated that the 454 Casull is not needed as the 45 Colt can be loaded to do anything the 454 Casull can, provided the particular gun is strong enough to handle it.
Equal to .454 Casull? Then it is a .45 Magnum for sure.
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 15:04   #78
Michael Rye
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,206
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster View Post
Equal to .454 Casull? Then it is a .45 Magnum for sure.
Just be careful of the guns you try it in. But yes, the 45 Colt can be loaded up to what the 454 Casull can do. If I remember right, Seyfried's gun was a five shot conversion. 45 Colt is a very impressive round to be sure.
Michael Rye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 15:08   #79
SCmasterblaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 16,020
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Rye View Post
Just be careful of the guns you try it in. But yes, the 45 Colt can be loaded up to what the 454 Casull can do. If I remember right, Seyfried's gun was a five shot conversion. 45 Colt is a very impressive round to be sure.
A five-shot .45 LC revolver has a lot of meat around each chamber, that's right.
__________________
Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
SCmasterblaster is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 20:16.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,449
412 Members
1,037 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31