[SCmasterblaster]

It seems to me that full-power 10mm loads are more than adequate for deer hunting.

[water_daddy]

Originally Posted by uz2bUSMC

Well man, I hope you know that the 240grain .44 has a SD of .185 and the 230grain 10mm is at .205SD and looks to be a fine tool for the job for anyone. The 200grain 10mm is at .179SD which is more comparable to the 240grn .44 and should be more than fine for a deer, especially at 800+ ft lbs from a 6" bbl. The difference between .400 and .429 is pretty nil if we are talking hardcast. The penetration of either is more than enough for a deer.

Excluding laws, two things are needed to determine minimum cartridge. You absolutely have to be put the bullet within vitals everytime or pass the shot.....this also defines your range. I use the 8" plate for big game measure. How does your selected load perform with the ideal perfect shot and also with possible obstructions? How will it perform if you hit a rib, nip a shoulder, or vegetation in route to the vitals? I'd have to test 45ACP (better yet 45 Super) or 10mm before considering this RELIABLE for elk. Just b/c you see a youtube video doesn't mean it is a good idea FOR YOU

[SCmasterblaster]

Originally Posted by water_daddy

Excluding laws, two things are needed to determine minimum cartridge. You absolutely have to be put the bullet within vitals everytime or pass the shot.....this also defines your range. I use the 8" plate for big game measure. How does your selected load perform with the ideal perfect shot and also with possible obstructions? How will it perform if you hit a rib, nip a shoulder, or vegetation in route to the vitals? I'd have to test 45ACP (better yet 45 Super) or 10mm before considering this RELIABLE for elk. Just b/c you see a youtube video doesn't mean it is a good idea FOR YOU

Real life is better than Youtube

[uz2bUSMC]

Originally Posted by water_daddy

Excluding laws, two things are needed to determine minimum cartridge. You absolutely have to be put the bullet within vitals everytime or pass the shot.....this also defines your range. I use the 8" plate for big game measure. How does your selected load perform with the ideal perfect shot and also with possible obstructions? How will it perform if you hit a rib, nip a shoulder, or vegetation in route to the vitals? I'd have to test 45ACP (better yet 45 Super) or 10mm before considering this RELIABLE for elk. Just b/c you see a youtube video doesn't mean it is a good idea FOR YOU

Ok, so why are you telling me this?

[SCmasterblaster]

Originally Posted by uz2bUSMC

Ok, so why are you telling me this?

to offer us his wisdom. I can dig it!

[uz2bUSMC]

Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster

to offer us his wisdom. I can dig it!

He's offering as if I have never thought of what he is saying or done the research. He would be wrong in that regard.

[SCmasterblaster]

Originally Posted by uz2bUSMC

He's offering as if I have never thought of what he is saying or done the research. He would be wrong in that regard.

It is hard to converse on boards such as these.

[uz2bUSMC]

Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster

It is hard to converse on boards such as these.

You are correct Sir, this is why I asked him. Text doesn't always convey tone.

[JW1178]

I am not a hunter, but I am pro-hunting. I am against inhumane hunting such as trapping and I'm on the fence about bow hunting. Trapping isn't hunting, it's cruel and for lazy idiots that can't hunt. At least bow hunting you have to hunt. I believe that a kill needs to be made fast and have minimal suffering to the animal.

A 10mm I do believe will take out a deer, especially the kind here in the south. They are rather small. It's all about the hunter's skill. As long as they can take a shot they know they can actually take the animal, not just shoot it to see if they can hit it.

A buddy of mine is an animal control officer. He's told me a lot of how the meth head hicks out here all think they are hunters because they wear mossy oak jackets and will shoot at anything they can with whatever they have and all they end up with is wounded animals which usually die of infection or disease due to these wounds. These idiots that want to kill something to feel like a man are not hunters. The hunters I know take it very seriously.

[G26AZ]

Originally Posted by alwaysshootin

>>That elk was dead before the body hit the ground! Not saying that a 45, or 10, are the ideal caliber, for hunting elk, but, if a 44 mag is, could the elk have fallen dead any quicker?<<

Actually, it WAS NOT dead when it hit the ground. If you look closely at about 1:30 in the video (1st video in the thread) when the guy is jumping around with both hands in the air yelling "whoo hoo!!", you can see the elk still flopping around in the background over his right shoulder (left side of screen).
So, it DID NOT appear to be a very humane kill to me! Instead of standing there doing his victory dance, he should have been putting the poor elk out of its misery

[alwaysshootin]

Originally Posted by G26AZ

Actually, it WAS NOT dead when it hit the ground. If you look closely at about 1:30 in the video (1st video in the thread) when the guy is jumping around with both hands in the air yelling "whoo hoo!!", you can see the elk still flopping around in the background over his right shoulder (left side of screen).
So, it DID NOT appear to be a very humane kill to me! Instead of standing there doing his victory dance, he should have been putting the poor elk out of its misery

Yes it was! With all do respect, have doubt you've experienced killing an animal. Ever gone out back to dispatch a chicken or turkey, for the oven? You do so by chopping off the head. What does the fowl do, immediately? Should you then shoot it to put it out of it's misery? Of course not, it's dead, it's just that it's nervous system, doesn't know it yet. Same with the elk, it was dead before it hit the ground, just had the death run left in it's nervous system that it had to expel.

[SCmasterblaster]

Originally Posted by JW1178

I am not a hunter, but I am pro-hunting. I am against inhumane hunting such as trapping and I'm on the fence about bow hunting. Trapping isn't hunting, it's cruel and for lazy idiots that can't hunt. At least bow hunting you have to hunt. I believe that a kill needs to be made fast and have minimal suffering to the animal.

A 10mm I do believe will take out a deer, especially the kind here in the south. They are rather small. It's all about the hunter's skill. As long as they can take a shot they know they can actually take the animal, not just shoot it to see if they can hit it.

A buddy of mine is an animal control officer. He's told me a lot of how the meth head hicks out here all think they are hunters because they wear mossy oak jackets and will shoot at anything they can with whatever they have and all they end up with is wounded animals which usually die of infection or disease due to these wounds. These idiots that want to kill something to feel like a man are not hunters. The hunters I know take it very seriously.

I have never thought of trapping in these terms. It has never crossed my mind.

[dougader]

You guys that think it's necessary to hunt deer with a 30-06, or elk with a 338 Win Mag would do well to read this little treatise by John Linebaugh:

http://www.customsixguns.com/writing...un_hunting.htm

I have known men and women to take all kinds of game with 10mm, 45 Super, 44 Special, 44 mag, 41 mag, and 45 Colt (with factory ammo and 30k psi handloads). While some keep their shots limited to 35 yards or so, some have taken shots over 100 yards and taken their game cleanly.

Max Prasac, author of Big-Bore Handguns and a regular columnist with Bear Hunting and Boar Hunting magazines, lists several hunters in his book who rountinely take game with revolvers. Muzzle energy figures really don't come into play like they do with rifle hunting. Sure some are taking game with revolvers bigger than your average 41 mag, but they are also taking BIG, dangerous game like grizzly, cape buffalo and moose. Who thought you could drop a moose at 100 yards with a revolver???

When Ross Seyfired first hunted Cape Buffalo, it was with a 5-shot 45 Colt. The guides there thought he was nuts. By the time he left, they were referring to his 45 as the "small 458."

This isn't trick shooting or sleight of hand. It happens all the time.

Deer with a 10mm? Pffsssst, it's nothing. A nice broadside shot through boths lungs will exit the buck, and drop him humanely.

[uz2bUSMC]

Originally Posted by dougader

You guys that think it's necessary to hunt deer with a 30-06, or elk with a 338 Win Mag would do well to read this little treatise by John Linebaugh:

http://www.customsixguns.com/writing...un_hunting.htm

I have known men and women to take all kinds of game with 10mm, 45 Super, 44 Special, 44 mag, 41 mag, and 45 Colt (with factory ammo and 30k psi handloads). While some keep their shots limited to 35 yards or so, some have taken shots over 100 yards and taken their game cleanly.

Max Prasac, author of Big-Bore Handguns and a regular columnist with Bear Hunting and Boar Hunting magazines, lists several hunters in his book who rountinely take game with revolvers. Muzzle energy figures really don't come into play like they do with rifle hunting. Sure some are taking game with revolvers bigger than your average 41 mag, but they are also taking BIG, dangerous game like grizzly, cape buffalo and moose. Who thought you could drop a moose at 100 yards with a revolver???

When Ross Seyfired first hunted Cape Buffalo, it was with a 5-shot 45 Colt. The guides there thought he was nuts. By the time he left, they were referring to his 45 as the "small 458."

This isn't trick shooting or sleight of hand. It happens all the time.

Deer with a 10mm? Pffsssst, it's nothing. A nice broadside shot through boths lungs will exit the buck, and drop him humanely.

Good post!

[SCmasterblaster]

Originally Posted by dougader

You guys that think it's necessary to hunt deer with a 30-06, or elk with a 338 Win Mag would do well to read this little treatise by John Linebaugh:

http://www.customsixguns.com/writing...un_hunting.htm

I have known men and women to take all kinds of game with 10mm, 45 Super, 44 Special, 44 mag, 41 mag, and 45 Colt (with factory ammo and 30k psi handloads). While some keep their shots limited to 35 yards or so, some have taken shots over 100 yards and taken their game cleanly.

Max Prasac, author of Big-Bore Handguns and a regular columnist with Bear Hunting and Boar Hunting magazines, lists several hunters in his book who rountinely take game with revolvers. Muzzle energy figures really don't come into play like they do with rifle hunting. Sure some are taking game with revolvers bigger than your average 41 mag, but they are also taking BIG, dangerous game like grizzly, cape buffalo and moose. Who thought you could drop a moose at 100 yards with a revolver???

When Ross Seyfired first hunted Cape Buffalo, it was with a 5-shot 45 Colt. The guides there thought he was nuts. By the time he left, they were referring to his 45 as the "small 458."

This isn't trick shooting or sleight of hand. It happens all the time.

Deer with a 10mm? Pffsssst, it's nothing. A nice broadside shot through boths lungs will exit the buck, and drop him humanely.

Good post indeed!

[alwaysshootin]

Originally Posted by dougader

You guys that think it's necessary to hunt deer with a 30-06, or elk with a 338 Win Mag would do well to read this little treatise by John Linebaugh:

http://www.customsixguns.com/writing...un_hunting.htm

I have known men and women to take all kinds of game with 10mm, 45 Super, 44 Special, 44 mag, 41 mag, and 45 Colt (with factory ammo and 30k psi handloads). While some keep their shots limited to 35 yards or so, some have taken shots over 100 yards and taken their game cleanly.

Max Prasac, author of Big-Bore Handguns and a regular columnist with Bear Hunting and Boar Hunting magazines, lists several hunters in his book who rountinely take game with revolvers. Muzzle energy figures really don't come into play like they do with rifle hunting. Sure some are taking game with revolvers bigger than your average 41 mag, but they are also taking BIG, dangerous game like grizzly, cape buffalo and moose. Who thought you could drop a moose at 100 yards with a revolver???

When Ross Seyfired first hunted Cape Buffalo, it was with a 5-shot 45 Colt. The guides there thought he was nuts. By the time he left, they were referring to his 45 as the "small 458."

This isn't trick shooting or sleight of hand. It happens all the time.

Deer with a 10mm? Pffsssst, it's nothing. A nice broadside shot through boths lungs will exit the buck, and drop him humanely.

Nicely played dougader, nicely played!

[SCmasterblaster]

Originally Posted by dougader

You guys that think it's necessary to hunt deer with a 30-06, or elk with a 338 Win Mag would do well to read this little treatise by John Linebaugh:

http://www.customsixguns.com/writing...un_hunting.htm

I have known men and women to take all kinds of game with 10mm, 45 Super, 44 Special, 44 mag, 41 mag, and 45 Colt (with factory ammo and 30k psi handloads). While some keep their shots limited to 35 yards or so, some have taken shots over 100 yards and taken their game cleanly.

Max Prasac, author of Big-Bore Handguns and a regular columnist with Bear Hunting and Boar Hunting magazines, lists several hunters in his book who rountinely take game with revolvers. Muzzle energy figures really don't come into play like they do with rifle hunting. Sure some are taking game with revolvers bigger than your average 41 mag, but they are also taking BIG, dangerous game like grizzly, cape buffalo and moose. Who thought you could drop a moose at 100 yards with a revolver???

When Ross Seyfired first hunted Cape Buffalo, it was with a 5-shot 45 Colt. The guides there thought he was nuts. By the time he left, they were referring to his 45 as the "small 458."

This isn't trick shooting or sleight of hand. It happens all the time.

Deer with a 10mm? Pffsssst, it's nothing. A nice broadside shot through boths lungs will exit the buck, and drop him humanely.

I cannot imagine going after a Cape Buffalo with a 5-shot .45 LC revolver.

[dougader]

Originally Posted by uz2bUSMC

Good post!

I'm embarrassed, frankly, that I spelled Ross' last name wrong. It should be Seyfried.

Ross' 45 Colt load used a 350 grain Keith style SWC loaded up around 50,000 psi IIRC. Not much difference than today's 454 Casull.

[SCmasterblaster]

Originally Posted by G26AZ

Actually, it WAS NOT dead when it hit the ground. If you look closely at about 1:30 in the video (1st video in the thread) when the guy is jumping around with both hands in the air yelling "whoo hoo!!", you can see the elk still flopping around in the background over his right shoulder (left side of screen).
So, it DID NOT appear to be a very humane kill to me! Instead of standing there doing his victory dance, he should have been putting the poor elk out of its misery

I agree 100%.

[dougader]

Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster

I agree 100%.

Well, the first shot was at about 1:20, the 2nd shot was at about 1:23. When that elk fell, it was all over, and he wasn't feeling a thing. So, at 1:30 - some 8 seconds after the first shot, and 7 seconds after the 2nd shot - we see a leg move. I wonder if you have ever seen an animal taken during a hunt before, or killed by a car, or killed for slaughter, or a pet dog "put down" by a little boy with tears running down his face.

Some animals drop and don't even twitch, but many do shake and twitch and roll around a bit even if hit in the head with a 30-06 at 10 feet. My Dad was the guy who shot a 700 pound steer for slaughter and I was there to see it. The steer was dead right there, but the legs were still moving as if he was trying to run away. He wasn't alive, his brain was gone!

Some deer run and bound away for 100 yards or more even when hit solidly through the lungs and heart. Some drop like they were struck by lightening.

I have seen a headless chicken chase a screaming girl down the road after it's head had been chopped off. The little girl was my sister. I have seen a cat crushed by a car, yet the nerve spasms caused the animal to bounce up and down over and over at about 3 feet in the air!

I was the little boy who had to put his own dog down. I was 6 or 7 years old. Hard fact of farm life: there is no money to take pets to the vet. Money goes for animals that end up in the freezer. The little guy tried to jump into the car just as my brother was shutting his door. That 1964 Mercury door snapped the dog's neck, and I wasn't about to let my mom screw it up and make it worse. I put that bullet right through the middle of Ben's brain pan... and he shook and quivered while I held him and cried. It probably only lasted for 5 or 6 seconds, but it was the longest wait I had ever experienced.

So, I disagree with your assessment. My experience tells me different.

[frank4570]

I've killed deer with my 10mm. With hollow points the wound channel is very similar to a broadhead arrow. And the deer react a lot like they have been hit by a 3 blade broadhead, they run.
Not at all similar to a rifle hit which usually drops deer so fast it's like lightening or something.

[NEOH212]

There's no way it was a 10mm. There wouldn't be any Elk left much less a forest for the trees!

[alwaysshootin]

Originally Posted by NEOH212

There's no way it was a 10mm. There wouldn't be any Elk left much less a forest for the trees!

For sure! If the "TEN", were used, there would have been a pronounced "mist" on the exit wound. That mist, would be the entrails, exiting!!!!!!!!!!!

[SDGlock23]

The dead give away that it wasn't a 10mm is that the surrounding trees were not flattened by the blast and the entire elk would have instantly turned into a pile of goo with that tremendous amount of energy passing through it. Additionally the camera lens would have shattered and most likely the shooter and camera man would have blacked out due the the concussion of the 10mm detonation.

[SCmasterblaster]

Originally Posted by SDGlock23

The dead give away that it wasn't a 10mm is that the surrounding trees were not flattened by the blast and the entire elk would have instantly turned into a pile of goo with that tremendous amount of energy passing through it. Additionally the camera lens would have shattered and most likely the shooter and camera man would have blacked out due the the concussion of the 10mm detonation.