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Old 09-27-2012, 21:55   #1
Lone Kimono
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Home Security

There seem to be a lot more break-ins on the news lately. I'm thinking that is only going to get worse as things decline. Is anyone doing anything to step up the security of their home?

How difficult are most gun safes to break into? Is there anything that can be done to to slow down a burglars access to them?
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Old 09-27-2012, 22:01   #2
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Sure they can be slowed down. Prevent it, no.

Dogs, Guns, CCTV, DVR's.
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Old 09-27-2012, 22:17   #3
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A good safe will not be penetrated by a burglar. Make sure it is bolted down to a solid floor. Unless they are extremely well prepared, and are planning on breaking into a safe (like they know what you have), they're not going to get in.

If you buy a fifty dollar safe, well, all bets are off.

Mount it properly, and it'll be there when you get home!

Of course, a decent security system will do wonders. Fortify your house at all entry points. Etc, etc. Do you live in a bad neighborhood?
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Old 09-28-2012, 01:22   #4
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home burglaries

Three kinds of burglars:

1. opportunistic, teenage boys. Usually neighbor's kids or friends of your kids. People are basically lazy and victimize within a few blocks of home.

2. professionals who target wealthy homes (this lets me out).

3. serial burglars who do it for a thrill.

Most home burglaries are done through:

1. an unlocked backdoor;
2. a ground floor unsecured bathroom window

Nothing is perfect:
1. grated screen outer front door;
2. fake security signs;
3. solid core backdoors with deadbolts
4. internal doors to bedrooms having deadbolts that are used when on vacation.
5. deadbolt on garage side door.
6. nails driven into door jamb that secure closed door to frame
7. random, auto lamp timers and timers on radios
8. cut away vegetation from the house unless it is something like rose plants
9. outdoor lights activated by motion detector.

If you won't spend the money to put up a solid core back door with deadbolt locks, you had better be prepared to put everything of value into your expensive safe.

If you won't monitor your kid's friends and have your kid keep his trap shut, your chances of finding things stolen go up. Yeah, I had that sinking feeling when I saw my stuff in the other kid's living room and his mother was clueless as to how it got there.

Grated screen door? The woman next door complained about someone walking in on her - and still hasn't put up a decent screen door with a one way deadbolt.
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Old 09-28-2012, 06:28   #5
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Bolting it in is paramount. If they can remove it they have all the time in the world to get into it.

You get what you pay for with safes.

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Old 09-28-2012, 08:52   #6
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Safes are not proof, they are resistant... same way as kevlar vests are to bullets.

Bolt it or at least load it down so much that unless they can prepared with a dolly, they ain't moving it with just a few dudes trying to grab ass it.

I shoved mine in a hard to access locale with near impossible logistics unless you know what you are doing and loaded it down to some obscene weight... plus my dog and alarm system and half a block full of nosy, retired neighbors with no kids, means that what we have now in this area is hot burgs where they come in while you are home.
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Old 09-28-2012, 08:59   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdcochran View Post
...Most home burglaries are done through:

1. an unlocked backdoor;
2. a ground floor unsecured bathroom window...
I see similar statistics everywhere; typically something like 35% thru the front door, 22% thru the back door and 24% thru a first-floor window. I assume it must be true in a lot of places, since everyone says it's the case. But in Arkansas, after 19 years in the alarm system world and 11 years of law enforcement, I've seen only one instance of a burglar coming in thru a window; and that was just last year.

Around here, it's more like 90% thru a kicked-in door. Maybe in the more urban areas, people are better about having reinforced doors, which would make windows a more inviting target...? I don't know, but I've only seen window-entry the one time. And even that one time, the window entry was done at the second burglary of the property. It was a nice hunting lodge (closed during off-season), and they broke in the first time by simply kicking in the back door. The manager got the door repaird and put up some game cameras, and the second time, the burglar(s) came in thru the back kitchen window above the sink, and stole the game cameras when they left. That shouldn't be funny, but even the manager eventually laughed about it.

Now they've got a good system (); one that not only sounds a siren & calls the authorities, but also sends video clips to their phones when there's an incident.

Still don't understand the discrepancy between the common statistics and what I've seen for years here in arkansas; but around here, it's doors at least 90 percent of the time...
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Old 09-28-2012, 09:01   #8
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We see kicked in doors in more desolate areas in the outskirts of the suburbs here. In major urban areas, it's broken windows, open windows, unlocked doors, etc.
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Old 09-28-2012, 09:20   #9
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Originally Posted by cowboy1964 View Post
Bolting it in is paramount. If they can remove it they have all the time in the world to get into it.

You get what you pay for with safes.

Security on Sale Gun safe Prying video - YouTube
Well, that video surely makes me feel great. I own a cheaper Liberty I bought at Sams Club about 7 years ago. I'm guessing that's pretty much worthless. I was about to upgrade to a Bighorn from Costco. Maybe that won't be good enough.
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Old 09-28-2012, 09:25   #10
Bilbo Bagins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdcochran View Post
Three kinds of burglars:

1. opportunistic, teenage boys. Usually neighbor's kids or friends of your kids. People are basically lazy and victimize within a few blocks of home.

2. professionals who target wealthy homes (this lets me out).

3. serial burglars who do it for a thrill.

Most home burglaries are done through:

1. an unlocked backdoor;
2. a ground floor unsecured bathroom window

Nothing is perfect:
1. grated screen outer front door;
2. fake security signs;
3. solid core backdoors with deadbolts
4. internal doors to bedrooms having deadbolts that are used when on vacation.
5. deadbolt on garage side door.
6. nails driven into door jamb that secure closed door to frame
7. random, auto lamp timers and timers on radios
8. cut away vegetation from the house unless it is something like rose plants
9. outdoor lights activated by motion detector.

If you won't spend the money to put up a solid core back door with deadbolt locks, you had better be prepared to put everything of value into your expensive safe.

If you won't monitor your kid's friends and have your kid keep his trap shut, your chances of finding things stolen go up. Yeah, I had that sinking feeling when I saw my stuff in the other kid's living room and his mother was clueless as to how it got there.

Grated screen door? The woman next door complained about someone walking in on her - and still hasn't put up a decent screen door with a one way deadbolt.
bdcochran sort of has it all here.

Burglars work in two speeds. Smash/Grab/Run and Planned out/Methodical. However there are also the opportunistic criminals who see an easy entrance in your house, and maybe they will steal stuff and leave, or maybe the will look for a woman or girl in the house to rape, or maybe they want to grab you or a loved one and force them to get all the money, drugs, and valuables in the house to maximize their profits then they may beat,kill, or rape for fun afterwards.

The young kid smash and grab attacks and the Opprotunistic ones can be slowed down or stopped with an Alarm system, good lighting outside, a big dog, good locked doors and window, keeping things like Guns and valuables in a safe that is bolted to the floor. It will all help.

Any security measure can be defeated with a well thought out plan. The way to defeat these smart criminals is to not present yourself as a possible target. Don't boast or blab that you have a lot of cash or guns in the house.

If you are talking about economic decline and things getting worse, you are right. As the economy gets worse the "Have Nots" will come after the "Haves" more often.

Last edited by Bilbo Bagins; 09-28-2012 at 09:27..
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Old 09-28-2012, 09:27   #11
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Get a Knox or something heavy duty name brand. If you go cheap, it's going to work against a casual smash and grab guy, but won't even deter a professional for any more than 30 seconds.

You can YouTube videos of safe cracking all day and sometimes, they don't even crack it, they just pound it until it caves and they can crowbar and pry it out with cheaper safes.

That's one reason that I specified 2" thick, heavy gauge steel with 360 degree 1" bolts all around. Makes it that much tougher to crack.
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I've said it before and I'll say it here: they'd look better with lividity.

Last edited by lawman800; 09-28-2012 at 09:27..
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:00   #12
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Originally Posted by Lone Kimono View Post
Well, that video surely makes me feel great. I own a cheaper Liberty I bought at Sams Club about 7 years ago. I'm guessing that's pretty much worthless. I was about to upgrade to a Bighorn from Costco. Maybe that won't be good enough.
Don't jump the gun. Is yours bolted to floor? Here's what I saw wrong with the video.

1) It was empty and very easy to tip over.
2) If it had been bolted they wouldn't have been able to "work" together as easily with it standing up.
3) maybe those guys were not pros but they have done that before and had exactly what they needed going in.
4) Right at the end one of the guys goes to lift the door effortlessly. I don't have a bizzillion dollar safe but I removed my door to make it easier to get in the house and I'll bet it weighed at least 150lbs.

I agree that you get what you pay for but that doesn't mean you have to spend 3k to get a decent safe.
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:23   #13
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It's bolted down, but I've been looking to upgrade for a while now. I want something with room for ammo, magazines, and other important family valuables. Would a more expensive Liberty be up there with Knox? If I can hold out until Jan or Feb I know Cabelas has employee pricing coupons which work on them. 2" thick, heavy gauge steel with 360 degree 1" bolts will be something I look for.

Break-ins actually worry me the most pre-SHTF, assuming it's a gradual decline due to the economy. Like Bilbo said, people are going to become more desperate as time goes on. The way my preps are stored in Rubbermaid tubs, I could lose a lot in a very short amount of time.

My neighborhood is in a good area with modest homes. Nothing that stands out, but I still don't think it's a mistake to do what I can now.

One thing I don't know how to secure are my lower level windows (literally on ground level). I have wooden dowels in the window track, but that's about it.
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:35   #14
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Now they've got a good system (); one that not only sounds a siren & calls the authorities, but also sends video clips to their phones when there's an incident.
The security cameras tied in with phones/ipods/ithingys is becoming very common. I know people that have motion detecting and infra red security cameras around their house, with wireless communication with their ipad thing. A few unobtrusive cameras can cover your whole perimeter. I don't know how much these systems cost, but I wouldn't be surprised if the price will drop (or is dropping now) in the near future.

Neighbors are a big thing, if you get along with them. We tell our neighbors when we will be away, they keep an eye on our house.
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:42   #15
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It's worth it to get a good safe.
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:55   #16
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And even better if it's bolted down in a constricted space like in a closet or in a corner that doesn't allow them to get the leverage they need to break it open.
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Old 09-28-2012, 14:10   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawman800 View Post
Get a Knox or something heavy duty name brand. If you go cheap, it's going to work against a casual smash and grab guy, but won't even deter a professional for any more than 30 seconds.

You can YouTube videos of safe cracking all day and sometimes, they don't even crack it, they just pound it until it caves and they can crowbar and pry it out with cheaper safes.

That's one reason that I specified 2" thick, heavy gauge steel with 360 degree 1" bolts all around. Makes it that much tougher to crack.
Do you mean it has 2" composite walls, or 2" of steel in the wall? Can you send me a link. About the heaviest gauge steel I have seen for a gun safe is 1/4" maybe 3/8". Above 1" is usually a TL15 or TL30 safe, which most gun safes are not even TL rated.

Last edited by racerford; 09-28-2012 at 14:23..
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Old 09-28-2012, 14:38   #18
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Most "gun safes" are not actually safes, but RSC's (Residential Security Containers) And are fairly easily penetrated via the side.


And Axe, a bottle Jack, and a few minutes of work and you can have access to most common brands of gun safes.


The best way to combat this, is to place the safe in a manner that denies access to the sides of the safe, or brick up/enclose it.

Bolt it down, enclose/protect it, and you're pretty much covered.



That said, a safe is the least effective step, in home secuirty. Once they're inside, everything else has failed. Start from the road/outside and work in.

Lights, security/dogs/locks/good doors etc.
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Old 09-28-2012, 14:40   #19
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We see kicked in doors in more desolate areas in the outskirts of the suburbs here. In major urban areas, it's broken windows, open windows, unlocked doors, etc.
That may well explain the discrepancy in the national numbers vs. what we see out here. We're definitely "far rural", and approaching "desolate". (And that's a good thing imo. )


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...I don't know how much these systems cost, but I wouldn't be surprised if the price will drop (or is dropping now) in the near future...
Big consideration is monthly fee. We use honeywell's service, and while our normal security monitoring service for alarm systems is only $24, once you add the necessary cellular capability & honeywell's fee, it's a little over $40 a month. It's worth it (obviously, I think so), as it lets you check on your system to make sure you armed it when you left, can text you not just when there's an alarm, but can also text you even when your kids disarm it when they get home from school, etc. With the newer systems, you can even control Z-wave devices like thermostats, locks, etc. If you've been on vacation; you can call up your system and tell your heat or air-conditioning to turn on before you get there. If you have an armload of groceries when you get home in the evening; you push a button on a keyfob remote and it disarms your system but also unlocks your deadbolt, etc.

Anytime I see an advertisement for one of those "teenage-girl-alone-in-the-house-with-a-crazed-caller-terrorizing-her" movies, I think how handy it would be for her to be able to remotely lock all the deadbolts with a push of a single button.
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Old 09-28-2012, 17:43   #20
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I did a few things that had dual purpose of hardening my house against hurricanes and at the same time criminals.

New doors and that are Dade County rated (take a 130 MPH 8' 2x4)

An alarm system that has switches on every door and window as well as a pre alarm motion sensors at the doors that act as a doorbell without a button.

I picked up an 8 camera and DVR set up for $300 that covers the yard in all directions.

Strike plates on the doors that are longer and have more bolts. The bolts are driven into the cement block of the house with tap cons.

AP501 locks that are digital and have no back up key that can be picked.

Mossberg 930 Special Purpose SLX in a verticle mount next to the bed with 00 buck.

Can't talk about the rest...


Our biggest problem here is home invasions. Not in my neighborhood but in many of the wealthier ones. I live with a bunch of armed red necks around me on small lots. We have never been a target.
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Old 09-28-2012, 17:51   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racerford View Post
Do you mean it has 2" composite walls, or 2" of steel in the wall? Can you send me a link. About the heaviest gauge steel I have seen for a gun safe is 1/4" maybe 3/8". Above 1" is usually a TL15 or TL30 safe, which most gun safes are not even TL rated.
Here's the spec, PM me and I will send you more info and the link to the company. Don't want to discuss too much more in public, you understand.

2" Door
1-1/2" locking bolt
5 prong handle
10 gauge body
1/2" 60 HRA hardplate(drilling protection)
Spring-loaded relocking system
Shear-off handle
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Old 09-28-2012, 19:58   #22
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10 ga is ok, but I'd prefer 7 ga or 3/16, as its not really enough to give you any real protection from a sharp object with a good swing.
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Old 09-28-2012, 20:22   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone Kimono View Post
There seem to be a lot more break-ins on the news lately. I'm thinking that is only going to get worse as things decline. Is anyone doing anything to step up the security of their home?

How difficult are most gun safes to break into? Is there anything that can be done to to slow down a burglars access to them?
Steps I am willing to discuss publicly, done recently to step up home security...I added Door Clubs to the exterior doors and bought a second dog. I also upgraded my home defense long gun from a 12 gauge to 5.56.

This is in addition to basics like keeping windows and doors locked/secured, having a big dog, proper exterior lighting, good locks, a locally monitored alarm with sensors on all doors/windows, etc. Our front door has sidelights so the dead bolt is a double cylinder with multiple keys kept within reach (from the inside)
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Old 09-29-2012, 00:55   #24
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Quote:
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10 ga is ok, but I'd prefer 7 ga or 3/16, as its not really enough to give you any real protection from a sharp object with a good swing.
Where I put the safe, you will be lucky to get a good swing with a hand held hammer... maybe a hatchet if you are lucky but you won't get a full swing.
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I've said it before and I'll say it here: they'd look better with lividity.
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Old 09-29-2012, 04:59   #25
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UneasyRider,

Can you PM me info on the 8 camera/dvr system that you bought. Where you got it, your review of it, how easy is it to hook up, wired or wireless cameras,etc. I am looking for something a little less expensive than the ADT camera system as an add on.

Thanks!!
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