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Old 10-11-2012, 21:38   #51
raven11
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Originally Posted by FLIPPER 348 View Post
No, it's the research I did.



And yes BTW- Germans and Italians were also included.
And I bet it became the foundation of thought on the subject , and not just some college paper for a gen-ed you needed to pass that thousands of students before and after you
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Originally Posted by oISHUTupNrocKIo View Post
He's actually wrong, after 8-9 shots with a 9mm bullet, you actually get a text on your phone saying "You are being shot at by a 9mm, don't worry, just ignore him and walk away."
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Old 10-11-2012, 21:41   #52
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And I bet it became the foundation of thought on the subject ,

Without question, once I discovered the facts.
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Old 10-11-2012, 21:42   #53
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Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo View Post
Funny how the Liberal Leftist, Brie cheese eatin', wine sippin' bomb throwers want to judge 1941 Americans using their whiney Radical Left lunacy of 2012. Read how the Japanese treated foreign nationals captured in wartime. It makes the American Internment Camps look like Club Med. When the Japanese weren't busy shooting, beheading & raping them they starved and/or worked them to death.


In the words of one veteran.."they started it & we finished it." If you don't like it then tighten your girdle & move to France. Tough times call for tough measures, Buttercup.


"I don't agree with you, therefore you drink wine, eat Brie, and throw bombs." Bet you win all kinds of arguments with that "logic".

I could debate this post, but its honestly one of the stupidest pieces of quasi-fascist drivel that I've seen, and its not worth the bother.
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That's true. Because those with very high IQs are often found on the general BS section of gun forums, stating as much to those who will listen.
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Old 10-11-2012, 21:47   #54
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Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo View Post
...Read how the Japanese treated foreign nationals captured in wartime....
There's something wrong with that argument when we are discussing America's treatment of American citizens.

Should our standards be set based on the standards of others? In other words, is it okay to be scum, as long as we aren't as bad as the scum somewhere else?

Didn't we violate our own laws, or does Executive Order allow us to violate the Constitution in an emergency?

Here's my idea of a conversation in Japan:

"Sir! The Americans have captured five of our agents in California and Oregon. They were going to answer the phone to tell us when the coast was clear, so we could save a few hours of recon."

"Damn! How did they find them?"

"They locked up 110,000 of their own people."

"Well, uh, okay. We'll take it!"
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Old 10-11-2012, 21:47   #55
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They were actually, look it up. For example. Is what it is, it was war time, a world war, we did what we thought was right. Sucks but those Japanese Americans were treated better than those the civilians under the Japanese. I'll use Wake Island for example. Just saying.

http://www.foitimes.com/internment/Myths.htm

Somebody mentioned the 442nd, yeah what about blacks who served? Their treatment at the time was worse IMO, way worse and even then honorable men served to fight for their country. Amazing what men will do for their nation even when being wronged by that nation.
So the people who were interned were "person's potentially dangerous to the security of the United States" according to your cite. OK.

Then there's the bankers and businesses who did business with nazis/fascists all the way up until the declaration of war. Even then they still had holdings. IGfarben, the makers of zyclon b, had a us subsidiary, Bayer. Like Union Banking Corporation Silesian-American Corporation for example it continued to do business with the Nazis all the way through the war and had it's assets seized after being busted as a nazi front. No one was imprisoned, though. Isn't that stand potentially dangerous to the US?

Graeme K. Howard, VP of GM at the time wrote America and a New World Order, he advised the US to support the nazis.

How about the duPonts and the Black Legion? They financed them. The Black Legoin supported the nazi movement. THey had 1 million followers and they wanted the overthrow of the American .gov! Are they not "person's potentially dangerous to the security of the United States" ?

http://foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/blackleg.htm

How about Thomas J. Watson? He and IBM helped the Nazis build a data base that increased the size and scope of the Holocaust. Watson even got a medal from Hitler himself.

Here's what William E. Dodd, U.S. Ambassador to Germany, said in 1937;

Quote:
"A clique of U.S. industrialists is hell-bent to bring a fascist state to supplant our democratic government and is working closely with the fascist regime in Germany and Italy. I have had plenty of opportunity in my post in Berlin to witness how close some of our American ruling families are to the Nazi regime. . . . "

"Certain American industrialists had a great deal to do with bringing fascist regimes into being in both Germany and Italy. They extended aid to help Fascism occupy the seat of power, and they are helping to keep it there."
Seems to be a bit of a double standard.
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Old 10-11-2012, 21:53   #56
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Didn't we violate our own laws, or does Executive Order allow us to violate the Constitution in an emergency?


Yes and yes.

You have to look at the situation from the time it was happening, not through today's eyes. We were losing a war and worried about an invasion. There was no intenet, no satellite coverage. There were only ship and aircraft patrols.
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Old 10-11-2012, 21:53   #57
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Originally Posted by FLIPPER 348 View Post
Without question, once I discovered the facts.
So what quote from Layton's book did you use to prove your fact. Or did you just talk in circles for the entire paper
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Originally Posted by oISHUTupNrocKIo View Post
He's actually wrong, after 8-9 shots with a 9mm bullet, you actually get a text on your phone saying "You are being shot at by a 9mm, don't worry, just ignore him and walk away."

Last edited by raven11; 10-11-2012 at 21:54..
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Old 10-11-2012, 21:58   #58
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So what quote from Layton's book did you use to prove your fact. Or did you just talk in circles for the entire paper

facts, not fact

I used several quotes from several sources. Layton's book being the first that came to mind. Do your own research.
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Old 10-11-2012, 22:01   #59
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Yes and yes.

You have to look at the situation from the time it was happening, not through today's eyes....
Oh, I agree.

And I'm sure that in the late 30's some Japanese-Americans were probably thinking, "This doesn't look good." One of them probably encouraged the others by saying: "Don't worry; this is the 20th Century. America is civilized now."
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Old 10-11-2012, 22:02   #60
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Old 10-11-2012, 22:02   #61
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Originally Posted by FLIPPER 348 View Post
facts, not fact

I used several quotes from several sources. Layton's book being the first that came to mind. Do your own research.
Biden, you posted that your facts support the argument.

Where are your facts?
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Originally Posted by oISHUTupNrocKIo View Post
He's actually wrong, after 8-9 shots with a 9mm bullet, you actually get a text on your phone saying "You are being shot at by a 9mm, don't worry, just ignore him and walk away."

Last edited by raven11; 10-11-2012 at 22:06..
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Old 10-11-2012, 22:06   #62
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Before anybody labels me - here's my family heritage.

http://www.taoscounty.org/index.aspx?NID=260

In the paragraph that starts; "World War II recorded Taos County citizens" ... My two uncles who survived the Death March are listed. Onofre Montoya and Tony Reyna.

http://www.bcmfofnm.org/

I know what the Japanese did.
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Old 10-11-2012, 22:25   #63
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Where are your facts?

on a floppy disk in my files
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Old 10-11-2012, 22:30   #64
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.....and I have not had a computer with a floppy drive since 98!

Dude, do your own research. It sounds like it will do you some good.
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Old 10-11-2012, 22:37   #65
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Originally Posted by FLIPPER 348 View Post
.....and I have not had a computer with a floppy drive since 98!

Dude, do your own research. It sounds like it will do you some good.
my facts are in this handy book



I know its hard for you to read but try to educate yourself on the subject at hand and one day you can talk to the grown-up
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Originally Posted by oISHUTupNrocKIo View Post
He's actually wrong, after 8-9 shots with a 9mm bullet, you actually get a text on your phone saying "You are being shot at by a 9mm, don't worry, just ignore him and walk away."
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Old 10-11-2012, 22:41   #66
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I did a while ago, thanks.
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Old 10-11-2012, 22:48   #67
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Are you saying that forcing thousands of American citizens to live in Interment camps, many of whom lost all their property, was not a mistake?
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Originally Posted by FLIPPER 348 View Post
Yes, I am. It was war.
I wore the uniform of our great nation. I was born there. I plan to die there (I'm in Ireland today, is why I write "there" rather than "here").

If the government came to lock me and my family up and confiscated our property because I have yellow skin and slanty eyes, I would shoot whoever came for me. I'd like to think I'd do the same if they came for black people or brown people or white people or anyone else.

If I were still in uniform I'd refuse to carry out the order.

There are things that make America great, and "innocent until proven guilty" is one of the most important. Locking up American citizens because you think they *might* commit a crime is pretty much the most evil thing we have done in the last hundred years or so.

The fact that thousands of those citizens volunteered to serve in the Army out of those camps, knowing that their families were still locked up back home, and the fact that the 442 RCT was so highly decorated tells me that those men were better men than I and better Americans than you.
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Old 10-11-2012, 22:50   #68
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You have to look at the situation from the time it was happening, not through today's eyes.
Some morals are not situational. Depriving an American citizen, someone who was born here just like you, of their freedom "just in case" due to the color of their skin is plain wrong. The situation does not matter.
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Old 10-11-2012, 22:52   #69
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Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
Some morals are not situational. Depriving an American citizen, someone who was born here just like you, of their freedom "just in case" due to the color of their skin is plain wrong.


The situation does not matter.

Yes it does. It's easy to judge today.
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Old 10-11-2012, 22:53   #70
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Is what it is, it was war time, a world war, we did what we thought was right.
Who's "we"?

I bet the Japanese-descended natural born citizens of this country thought that they were part of the "we" but I guess they learned better, eh?
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Old 10-11-2012, 22:53   #71
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Locking up American citizens because you think they *might* commit a crime is pretty much the most evil thing we have done in the last hundred years or so.
there was no *might*, it was happening
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Old 10-11-2012, 22:53   #72
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the hypocrisy of this forum runs deep.

It's ok to violate the rights of people as long as it doesn't happen to you. Got it.
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Old 10-11-2012, 22:56   #73
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Yes it does. It's easy to judge today.
Nope.

Lots of things do depend on the situation. Not this one. Imprisoning someone because of where their parents were born is and always will be wrong.
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Old 10-11-2012, 22:57   #74
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I was listening to a local radio talk show and one of the hosts was talking about he had never known about the existence of Japanese internment camps during WWII.

The other host said that there were a couple right here in AZ and one of them was in a town I drive through every day on my way to work in Phoenix, AZ.

I googled the camp and discovered that the Circle K gas station I filled up at this morning was where the camp once was...

Papago park/Phoenix zoo land was a POW camp during WWII.
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Old 10-11-2012, 22:58   #75
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The whole world should feel guilty. It was an ugly time.
My grandfather fought his way from the Normandy beaches to Carentan before getting his ticket home to his wife stamped by a German tank's main gun. I don't feel guilty. I feel proud of him, and proud of our country for being exactly what the world needed at that time. No one and no country is ever perfect, but when the world was going to hell, the US was just good enough to bring it back.

That is unfortunate for the Japanese Americans who were imprisoned, but at the time, it was believed to be necessary enough to go through the trouble. At least they didn't have to fight their way to Berlin.
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