[fnfalman]

Originally Posted by vafish

Why does it have to be an either or situation?

Why not tritium sights AND a light?

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Of course it can, but then you wasted a hundred bucks or more on a feature that isn't necessary. But then I spend a couple of hundred bucks on fancy wooden grips...

[AK_Stick]

Why is it wasted? Neither is the ideal solution to all of the situations that you would use the other one for.


Simply having a light, does not mean that you can utilize it, in every given scenario.

[Warp]

Originally Posted by AK_Stick

Why is it wasted? Neither is the ideal solution to all of the situations that you would use the other one for.


Simply having a light, does not mean that you can utilize it, in every given scenario.

I was just thinking the same thing.

Plus, unfortunately, lights are far less reliable and dependable than a good set of tritium sights. Or a good firearm, for that matter

Some handgun uses are with one hand. Hope that flashlight is mounted to the gun in those cases.

[fnfalman]

Originally Posted by AK_Stick

Simply having a light, does not mean that you can utilize it, in every given scenario.

Like I said, if you're a GI then target ID doesn't mean squat. You can tell by the silhouette whether or not the intended is a GI. If not a GI, then bang! If it turns out to be mamasan instead of Haji/Charlie, then so sad too bad, c'est la guerre.

If you're a cop who tries this and shot somebody by mistake, you'd probably go to jail, censured, and be broke from civil lawsuit. Or all three.

If you're a civilian and shot at an unidentified target then chances are you may have shot grandma or junior.

In the two latter cases, tritium sight doesn't mean squat because you need to truly ID before firing.

[fnfalman]

Originally Posted by Warp

Some handgun uses are with one hand. Hope that flashlight is mounted to the gun in those cases.

That's an entirely different subject.

[Warp]

Originally Posted by fnfalman

If you're a civilian and shot at an unidentified target then chances are you may have shot grandma or junior.

In the two latter cases, tritium sight doesn't mean squat because you need to truly ID before firing.

Third time's the charm


"Virtually every single time I pick up my shotgun or one of my pistols to dry-run in my house at night, I can very easily identify targets/target areas yet only see the sites due to the tritium.

I have also shot outside at night where I could identify the target but would not be able to easily see sites that were not their own light source.

Sure, there are times it's too dark to ID a target without a light source. Sure, there are times it's kinda dark and you could see a fiber optic site.

But there are tons of times you can ID the target and the tritium lets you see your sites (or lets you pick them up more quickly)"

[AK_Stick]

Originally Posted by fnfalman

Like I said, if you're a GI then target ID doesn't mean squat. You can tell by the silhouette whether or not the intended is a GI. If not a GI, then bang! If it turns out to be mamasan instead of Haji/Charlie, then so sad too bad, c'est la guerre.

If you're a cop who tries this and shot somebody by mistake, you'd probably go to jail, censured, and be broke from civil lawsuit. Or all three.

If you're a civilian and shot at an unidentified target then chances are you may have shot grandma or junior.

In the two latter cases, tritium sight doesn't mean squat because you need to truly ID before firing.

Thats a gross oversimplification of all the scenarios you could possibly use a weapon in, and you know it.


Lights break, batterys die, or the situation could be such that using a weapon mounted light, isn't a good tactical choice.



Lights, do not cover the spectrum of instances where night sights can be useful.

nor do night sights, cover the spectrum of instances where a light is useful.


Yes, having a light, will, in alot of situations, remove your need for illuminated night sights. But it doesn't cover all of them.

[NeverMore1701]

Lotta stupid in the thread since the last time I checked in, keep it up!

[Warp]

Originally Posted by AK_Stick

Thats a gross oversimplification of all the scenarios you could possibly use a weapon in, and you know it.


Lights break, batterys die, or the situation could be such that using a weapon mounted light, isn't a good tactical choice.



Lights, do not cover the spectrum of instances where night sights can be useful.

nor do night sights, cover the spectrum of instances where a light is useful.


Yes, having a light, will, in alot of situations, remove your need for illuminated night sights. But it doesn't cover all of them.

Agreed.

This is why my pistols all have night sites, my shotgun has night sights, and my AR has a red dot that is on 24/7/365...and my shotgun has a weaponlight, and my AR has a weaponlight, I keep a hand held light by my nightstand pistol, and I carry a quality handheld light at all times. (no light mounted to my pistols, though)

Neither does it ALL by itself.

[John Biltz]

I've always been a shotgun guy for home defense. I've got an AR on the way and that is going to take the shotgun's place for self defense. An AR and red dot just makes too much sense; 30 round magazine, low recoil and it does the best on not punching through walls. The other real big thing is I'll shoot it a lot more than the shotgun. I've gotten lazy about shooting a shotgun as I've gotten older.

If I get up to investigate a noise that is not the sound of one of my security doors being ripped out of the frame I'm going to take a pistol and a flashlight. The AR is going to be my hunker down gun.

[fnfalman]

So, give me some situations where as a cop or civilian, it's a good idea to shoot without positive ID?

How can you positive ID somebody without lighting them up with illuminated light? If there's enough ambient light for positive ID, then there's enough ambient light not to need tritium glow.

Originally Posted by AK_Stick

Thats a gross oversimplification of all the scenarios you could possibly use a weapon in, and you know it.


Lights break, batterys die, or the situation could be such that using a weapon mounted light, isn't a good tactical choice.



Lights, do not cover the spectrum of instances where night sights can be useful.

nor do night sights, cover the spectrum of instances where a light is useful.


Yes, having a light, will, in alot of situations, remove your need for illuminated night sights. But it doesn't cover all of them.

[AK_Stick]

I don't know about you, but I don't need a light, or ambient light to be able to tell if someone in my house, is supposed to be there or not.


Similarly, if there are multiple subjects, and they're not side by side, I can cover one of them with the weapon, and query them, without letting them know exactly where I am.




Since most house guns, do double duty as CCW's what if someone just doesn't happen to have his light on him, and returns home after work? In my case, my daily carry is the same as my night stand gun. The light sits on the night stand. When I take my uniform off, I put my light on, and the gun sits on the night stand unless I leave the house, at which case, it goes back to its carry config, as I have little need for a light on a CCW piece.

Again, what if your batterys fail? Or you smash the gun on something, when you hear that kick at the door. (yes, a bed foot board, will break the bezel on your X300)

They're all just tools, why limit yourself.

[Warp]

Originally Posted by fnfalman

So, give me some situations where as a cop or civilian, it's a good idea to shoot without positive ID?

What the hell are you talking about?

Do you even know?

Some serious trolling going on ITT.

[ithaca_deerslayer]

I'm getting a kick out of this thread, sitting here watching tv with my family, my Glock 26 on my hip

Rarely, only rarely, do I watch tv with a loaded shotgun on my lap

[jbglock]

Anyone that feels they can safely clear a house in the dark without a light or engage a person without a light in the same situation has little to no experience with either. It is that simple.

[Tiro Fijo]

Originally Posted by vafish

...I'll just let the dogs loose and aim a bit above the barking.

Sig line worthy!!

Originally Posted by Berto

I'll stick with the shotgun, I'm not into clearing buildings and stuff. It's for home protection.

Bingo. I prefer the Third World approach to house "clearing": one call on the megaphone for everyone to exit with their hands on their head. If not, grenades, full auto fire & then dogs in to lick up what remains.

[fnfalman]

Originally Posted by AK_Stick

I don't know about you, but I don't need a light, or ambient light to be able to tell if someone in my house, is supposed to be there or not.

You a bad mamajama. However, there had been several recent reports of dads and husbands shooting their loved ones because they heard noises and saw silhouettes.

I suppose if you're single like me then whomever else in the house is fair game, but for people that live with others, that's a different story.

Similarly, if there are multiple subjects, and they're not side by side, I can cover one of them with the weapon, and query them, without letting them know exactly where I am.

I can do that too with a gun/flashlight of which the flashlight not turned on but pointed in the general direction of the noises/silhouettes.

Again, what if your batterys fail? Or you smash the gun on something, when you hear that kick at the door. (yes, a bed foot board, will break the bezel on your X300)

They're all just tools, why limit yourself.

Tritium vials don't break either, huh?

[fnfalman]

Originally Posted by Warp

What the hell are you talking about?

Do you even know?

Some serious trolling going on ITT.

You're the one that claims you can positive ID targets without the use of ambient or illuminated lights.

[Warp]

Originally Posted by fnfalman

You're the one that claims you can positive ID targets without the use of ambient or illuminated lights.

Smells like libel.

Please substantiate this statement.

[fnfalman]

Originally Posted by Warp

Smells like libel.

Please substantiate this statement.

Sounds like a lawyer.

Prove to me that tritium sight is worthwhile if you have to positive ID a target before taking a shot.

[Warp]

Virtually every single time I pick up my shotgun or one of my pistols to dry-run in my house at night, I can very easily identify targets/target areas yet only see the sites due to the tritium.

I have also shot outside at night where I could identify the target but would not be able to easily see sites that were not their own light source.

Sure, there are times it's too dark to ID a target without a light source. Sure, there are times it's kinda dark and you could see a fiber optic site.

But there are tons of times you can ID the target and the tritium lets you see your sites (or lets you pick them up more quickly)

[fnfalman]

Originally Posted by Warp

Virtually every single time I pick up my shotgun or one of my pistols to dry-run in my house at night, I can very easily identify targets/target areas yet only see the sites due to the tritium.

So you claim that there's enough ambient light to positively ID people yet there isn't enough light to use non-tritium sight?

Okay...

[Warp]

I claim this: Virtually every single time I pick up my shotgun or one of my pistols to dry-run in my house at night, I can very easily identify targets/target areas yet only see the sites due to the tritium.

I have also shot outside at night where I could identify the target but would not be able to easily see sites that were not their own light source.

Sure, there are times it's too dark to ID a target without a light source. Sure, there are times it's kinda dark and you could see a fiber optic site.

But there are tons of times you can ID the target and the tritium lets you see your sites (or lets you pick them up more quickly)

[AK_Stick]

Originally Posted by fnfalman

I can do that too with a gun/flashlight of which the flashlight not turned on but pointed in the general direction of the noises/silhouettes.

And doing so pinpoints your location to the people you're looking to identify. Where as remaining in the dark and calling out does not.

Originally Posted by fnfalman

Tritium vials don't break either, huh?

Pretty much made my argument for me. Because one can break, you should have something else as a backup.

Originally Posted by jbglock

Anyone that feels they can safely clear a house in the dark without a light or engage a person without a light in the same situation has little to no experience with either. It is that simple.

Don't think anyone is advocating not using a light, what Warp and I were talking about, is having night sights on a gun with a light.

[Warp]

Originally Posted by AK_Stick

Don't think anyone is advocating not using a light, what Warp and I were talking about, is having night sights on a gun with a light.

I don't think anybody is advocating not using a light, either.

He really likes his straw men, though.