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Old 10-10-2012, 06:57   #1
DoogieHowser
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Jackboots taser seizure patient...

http://www.twincities.com/localnews/...taser-incident

http://rt.com/usa/news/man-seizure-police-sheeley-049/


This was brought up on facebook by a medic friend of mine. Anyone have the other side of the story?
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:15   #2
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No idea about this specific case but I have seen police tase a person that had a seizure. I can understand the officers may have been confused with what the patient was doing. After a person has a seizure they often enter a post-ictal state that can range from being unresponsive to extremely combative. It can also depend on what caused the seizure. Does the patient have a history of them? Was it drug induced? Was it withdrawals from alcohol? Too many factors to determine the reason.

What is strange to me is Ativan is given for patient's having seizures.
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:29   #3
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Originally Posted by RyanNREMTP View Post
No idea about this specific case but I have seen police tase a person that had a seizure. I can understand the officers may have been confused with what the patient was doing. After a person has a seizure they often enter a post-ictal state that can range from being unresponsive to extremely combative. It can also depend on what caused the seizure. Does the patient have a history of them? Was it drug induced? Was it withdrawals from alcohol? Too many factors to determine the reason.

What is strange to me is Ativan is given for patient's having seizures.
I should have clarified that I'm in a medic program right now myself. I had the same thoughts but it's the victim's angle from the data we have here and I was just hoping someone else had some more info.

I would have assumed versed myself...
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:32   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanNREMTP View Post
No idea about this specific case but I have seen police tase a person that had a seizure. I can understand the officers may have been confused with what the patient was doing. After a person has a seizure they often enter a post-ictal state that can range from being unresponsive to extremely combative. It can also depend on what caused the seizure. Does the patient have a history of them? Was it drug induced? Was it withdrawals from alcohol? Too many factors to determine the reason.

What is strange to me is Ativan is given for patient's having seizures.
If the medics gave the guy vitamin H I would wager there is a lot more to this story then is being reported.
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:43   #5
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First link (presumably original) says Austin Minnesota...
Second link says Austin Texas...

How's that for rock-solid journalistic foundation. I'm sure the rest of the facts are just as accurate.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:56   #6
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A whole lot of questions need to be answered. Was he taking his medication? Does he have a history of mental illness? What type of seizures does he have. Does he smoke? Is he obese? The last two go towards his MI claim. There are a myriad of questions needing answers that will will never know.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:02   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoogieHowser View Post

I would have assumed versed myself...
Our first line is still Valium if we have it. We are so short on drugs right now it's not funny. Versed is second and then Ativan.
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Old 10-10-2012, 16:20   #8
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Originally Posted by nursetim View Post
A whole lot of questions need to be answered. Was he taking his medication? Does he have a history of mental illness? What type of seizures does he have. Does he smoke? Is he obese? The last two go towards his MI claim. There are a myriad of questions needing answers that will will never know.
I actually saw some idiot on these forums put out a check list that he demanded LEO's consider the totality of the circumstances from a very PC point of view, including socioeconomic class and race. When the action is happening you have to make a split second decision: right, wrong, or indiferent.

I really really want to take guys like that and shove them into life and death scenarios and eat popcorn and watch. I suspect they would go into sensory overload and freeze up.
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Old 10-10-2012, 16:55   #9
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You realize those questions are for after action pre trial discovery, not while it is actually happening.
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Old 10-10-2012, 17:08   #10
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Originally Posted by nursetim View Post
You realize those questions are for after action pre trial discovery, not while it is actually happening.
Actually, those questions he pulled out of his gludius and declared that all LEO's should consider everything on his list before acting.

I know what a use of force form looks like. It actually takes into account how humid it was that day. I've read them, they are obtuse and overly detailed. Yet, not one of them asks the officer if they considered their race or socioeconomic class before acting. Beer summit or no.
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Old 10-10-2012, 17:40   #11
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Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
Actually, those questions he pulled out of his gludius and declared that all LEO's should consider everything on his list before acting.

I'd be more than happy to begin checking off questions on a form... until I got bored and left the scene for another hot-tone, leaving idiots like him to deal with the entire incident, it's aftermath, and all the ramifications.
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Old 10-10-2012, 18:35   #12
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I have seen nothing in the Austin Texas media relating to this. Had it happened here the local media and the usual suspects would be having a field day with it as proof the Chief's new use of force policy is not working.
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Old 10-10-2012, 19:53   #13
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Starting to sound like this doesn't even exist!
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:46   #14
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So how can they even be sure he tased the guy if he's a seizure patient? How could you tell the difference? Put a light bulb in his mouth and see if it glows? And isn't there something in the Constitution that prohibits seizures? So why isn't the taser unconstitutional?

Randy

Last edited by steveksux; 10-12-2012 at 13:55..
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Old 10-13-2012, 06:25   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
I actually saw some idiot on these forums put out a check list that he demanded LEO's consider the totality of the circumstances from a very PC point of view, including socioeconomic class and race. When the action is happening you have to make a split second decision: right, wrong, or indiferent.

I really really want to take guys like that and shove them into life and death scenarios and eat popcorn and watch. I suspect they would go into sensory overload and freeze up.
Exactly. Had a call of a domestic assault in progress once. The only info I had was 18 yo son with mental issues was assaulting his mother and father. I get there and try to talk to him and he attacks me throwing an overhand punch at my head. Him being mental I really didn't want to hurt him if I could so I tase him. Find out later he had also just had a seizure.
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