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Old 10-11-2012, 09:56   #41
JW1178
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About higher velocity rounds; it kind of boils down to this: We can argue how it works, but the reality is that it does work. If velocity in handgun calibers didn't matter, then when they went from .38sp to .357mag they wouldn't have seen much difference of a result. 147gr 9mm's look great in gel, often out perform the 115-124's but the results aren't reflected in the real world. The .357sig is not much more than a 9mm in a necked down .40 case, however although not a true magnum, they do seem to be getting the job done. Speaking of .40, I wish LE would take another look at the G20SF with full power loads. Honestly, if you can control a G22, you can shoot a G20 just as well, if not better.

Honestly, if I was in charge, cops in these really dangerous urban enviroments would carry a SBR AR15's chambered in whatever round they perfer. Punk gangbangers want a war zone, we should give them one. There are places like Detroit where I think it's foolish to send LEO's into wish just a handgun.
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:16   #42
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Originally Posted by JW1178 View Post
About higher velocity rounds; it kind of boils down to this: We can argue how it works, but the reality is that it does work. If velocity in handgun calibers didn't matter, then when they went from .38sp to .357mag they wouldn't have seen much difference of a result.
That seems to be greatly ignored by many people. I think the love affair American gun owners have with the .45 ACP/M1911 has impacted the train of thought. Many people look at the 45 as a legendary man stopper with mythical powers. People in America play into the mindset that bigger is always better.
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:57   #43
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Originally Posted by Yankee2718 View Post
That seems to be greatly ignored by many people. I think the love affair American gun owners have with the .45 ACP/M1911 has impacted the train of thought. Many people look at the 45 as a legendary man stopper with mythical powers. People in America play into the mindset that bigger is always better.
.45 auto is a legendary man stopper. It has an uncontroversial century behind it, and it's just getting better. I've never attributed mythical powers to it, but it works. Even does the job at around half the pressure of 9mm +p. In this case, throwing a big rock negates the need for supersonic speeds.

It's not the only round out there that can get the job done, but its reputation is well earned and the "love affair" makes all the sense in the world to me.

The light and fast vs. slow and heavy argument will never end. Pick the one you think is coolest and shoot it a lot.

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Old 10-11-2012, 11:18   #44
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That seems to be greatly ignored by many people. I think the love affair American gun owners have with the .45 ACP/M1911 has impacted the train of thought. Many people look at the 45 as a legendary man stopper with mythical powers. People in America play into the mindset that bigger is always better.
If two guys were going into battle against each other. One armed with say, 7 rounds of .45. And the other armed with say, 12 rounds of 357sig. That would be a no brainer which one I would take. 357sig ANY DAY. And I would like my chances.
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Old 10-11-2012, 13:25   #45
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Agreed

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Old 10-11-2012, 13:28   #46
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10mm recoil really isn't that bad, and I see no reason. why it would be less accurate. My 10mm is more accurate than my 40 using equal bullet weights.

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Old 10-11-2012, 14:57   #47
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Originally Posted by Yankee2718 View Post
That seems to be greatly ignored by many people. I think the love affair American gun owners have with the .45 ACP/M1911 has impacted the train of thought. Many people look at the 45 as a legendary man stopper with mythical powers. People in America play into the mindset that bigger is always better.
Well, when speaking of the .45ACP, it has more than enough size and weight to make up for it's slower speed. However the .357sig has more than enough speed to make up for it's lack of size and weight.
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Old 10-11-2012, 18:44   #48
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I'm a fan of accuracy, speed, and penetration. This is my reason for going with a 155gr XTP handloaded in a 40S&W. The 155XTP has good velocity (1150-1200fps depending on load), it expands (not as much as some), and you get stellar penetration. I'm also getting more consistent, and excellent accuracy from my handloaded 155XTP's @ 1150fps (haven't tried higher velocity YET) than any other store bought whiz bang round that you can get at your LGS. TnOutDoors has tested the XTP bullet in GEL using the Hornady TAP load, and it performed impressively based on the criteria I look for in a handgun cartridge.

Hornady TAP FPD .40 S&W 155 gr JHP SIM-TEST w/denim - YouTube
I would like to see the 10mm version of this bad boy tested. 155 grains at 1270 (as chronographed by doc).
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Old 10-11-2012, 22:35   #49
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.45 auto is a legendary man stopper. It has an uncontroversial century behind it, and it's just getting better. I've never attributed mythical powers to it, but it works. Even does the job at around half the pressure of 9mm +p. In this case, throwing a big rock negates the need for supersonic speeds.

It's not the only round out there that can get the job done, but its reputation is well earned and the "love affair" makes all the sense in the world to me.

The light and fast vs. slow and heavy argument will never end. Pick the one you think is coolest and shoot it a lot.

The 45 does have a history of stopping people. I make those comments tongue in cheek. However, many people, no matter what evidence there is to the contrary can't get past the "but its a 45" mentality. The 45 is a great round, no doubt. I like a lot of things about the 45. One downside to the 45 is the slow velocity the 230 grain loads produce. When the damage from a 357 Sig is compared to a 45, I see more damage from the 357. The 45 looks pretty and big, but the 357 seems to produce more damage.

Perhaps the whole thing is just a moot point, who knows. There will probably never be enough data available to determine any direct correlations to effect on target in relation to bullet size, weight and speed.
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Old 10-12-2012, 06:07   #50
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I would like to see the 10mm version of this bad boy tested. 155 grains at 1270 (as chronographed by doc).
Yes. I agree. Seems like this load would hold up very well at higher speeds and being its a controlled/slow expansion, would probably get the best of both worlds.
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:18   #51
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Yes. I agree. Seems like this load would hold up very well at higher speeds and being its a controlled/slow expansion, would probably get the best of both worlds.
That's what I am thinking.

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Old 10-12-2012, 13:49   #52
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I would like to see the 10mm version of this bad boy tested. 155 grains at 1270 (as chronographed by doc).
That must be one hard-hitting round!
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Old 10-12-2012, 14:04   #53
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I'd like to see him test a few DT 115 and 80 gr TAC-XPs in both 9mm+P and
.357 SIG.Caliber Corner

The Barnes X bullet needs no jacket or gimmicks for both adequate penetration and
perfect expansion.
Caliber Corner


If it were only cheaper, more people would be dumping conventional or bonded
JHPs.

Testing of the DT 155 gr. TAC-XP in 10mm would be interesting as well.
Caliber Corner
The only problem being that MOST people can't control a full power 10mm
like they can with most any .357 SIG load on the market.

10mm use among police is rare these days.. with the majority of the street data is from years
ago when the TEN had heavier bullets.

As a former 10mm owner (10 years) I really like it, but shoot the smaller framed .357 Glocks much better due to less recoil.
Caliber Corner
I think the testing so far from TN9 is interesting but would like to see it more balanced.
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Last edited by clarkstoncz; 10-12-2012 at 14:06..
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Old 10-12-2012, 14:08   #54
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Lots of pictures here.
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Old 10-12-2012, 15:51   #55
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That must be one hard-hitting round!
Hopefully TN will get around to it.
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Old 10-12-2012, 22:29   #56
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I'd send him a few rounds of (each load shown) of my ammo, but having to ship through UPS is a real quagmire.
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Old 10-13-2012, 02:36   #57
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I'd send him a few rounds of (each load shown) of my ammo, but having to ship through UPS is a real quagmire.
He has said he won't accept rounds from people anyway. Everything he tests he purchases himself.
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Old 10-13-2012, 07:30   #58
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I want to see him test the 155 grain XTP/Gold Dot HP from Underwood in .40S&W. The round is listing at 1300fps. That's close to factory 10mm velocity.
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Old 10-13-2012, 08:59   #59
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I want to see him test the 155 grain XTP/Gold Dot HP from Underwood in .40S&W. The round is listing at 1300fps. That's close to factory 10mm velocity.
I'm pretty sure that everyone will get to see the tests they want to see most. He is testing at a pretty fast pace. To me it seems as though all of the spare time I would guess he has is all nearly spent on his tests.
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Old 10-13-2012, 10:45   #60
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I'm pretty sure that everyone will get to see the tests they want to see most. He is testing at a pretty fast pace. To me it seems as though all of the spare time I would guess he has is all nearly spent on his tests.
Yeah I almost feel bad for him.
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