[airmotive]

Mrs. Airmotive, who at the age of 38, was just placed on the autism spectrum. She's an RN who graduated with a 3.98 from one of the most competitive BSN universities in the country. Yeah...the spike in autism rates have a LOT to do with diagnosis creep.
In the last 38 years, my wife hasn't changed...the definition of autism has changed.

[Geko45]

Originally Posted by TactiCool

Show me a study that conclusively proves that over diagnosis is the sole cause for the increase in autism. I've looked, and I sure can't find one.

If you know anything at all about how clinical studies are performed you would know that no one would ever make that claim no matter how compelling the evidence. Even if you find strong evidence of a corollary effect, there are always residuals (or errors) that represent other factors that have at least some influence. So, you either intentionally stated your request in a manner you knew would be unsupportable or you have no idea what you're talking about.

At any rate, a cursory search turned up this study which showed that at least one of the diagnostic systems used for identifying autism has most likely been overdiagnosing the disorder.

Three diagnostic systems for autism: DSM-III, DSM-III-R, and ICD-10

ICD-10 draft research criteria for childhood autism were applied to a previously published data set comparing DSM-III and DSM-III-R to clinicians' diagnoses of autism. The ICD-10 approach paralleled clinicians' patterns of diagnosis and, to a lesser extent, the DSM-III system. Relative to either clinicians, DSM-III, or ICD-10 the DSM-III-R system overdiagnosed the presence of autism. Implications for research and for future revision of diagnostic criteria are discussed.

Originally Posted by TactiCool

I've looked, and I sure can't find one.

You must not have looked very hard.

[sputnik767]

Originally Posted by Nickotym

This has always made me scratch my head. I thought most people who support guns had enough sense to question the government's "we know best for you" attitude.

Now can any of the vaccine supporters show me one study that proves that it was vaccines that slowed those diseases or better sanitary practices that slowed those diseases? (ETA: Remember, correlation does not necessarily equal causation.) If you research the efficacy of vaccines I have no problem with you giving them to your children. I would ask you to respect my decision not to vaccinate my children. You know, "agree to disagree".

Correlation does not equal causation is an all-encompassing term that people like you tend to use as a fall back when they simple don't know what else to say. But when we have data showing the incidences of typical childhood diseases plummeting after vaccination programs were began, correlation does equal causation. Lets put it simply, better hygiene did not eradicate smallpox, vaccines did. Unfortunately, the kind of proof that you are looking for can't exist. All we can do is retrospective studies and try to identify what happened, and prove it with statistical analysis. As I said before, people like you are not making an educated decision, they are doing it for other reasons, be it paranoia, distrust of the government, or simply lack of understanding. But it does not make you an intelligent person for doing so, no matter what you like to believe.

[OlliesRevenge]

Vaccines are not mandatory - Nearly everyplace outside the military it is possible to take some type of exemption (and it wouldn't even surprise me if there was an exemption for military members).

Before my daughter was born, the wife and I settled on a dramatically modified vaccine schedule, rather than the one size fits all "pump 'em full of shots" insanity -- For example, we did not allow our newborn to receive a HepB shot within minutes of her birth, as the wife was confident she did not have HepB, and we weren't planning on giving our newborn a blood transfusion (duh!).

There are two sides to the vaccine debate -

• Medical Freedom.
• Safety and efficacy of the vaccines.

Most of the conformist "take your shots" arguments can be handled in the medical freedom area alone since we have a concept called 'informed consent' that must be adhered to in medicine. Forcing someone to take shots against their will is a violation medical ethics and basic human rights.

Vaccines are not a panacea, they are a drug product manufactured by big Pharm corporations for a profit. They have risks and benefits. They are not subjected to double blind placebo controlled studies before approval, as most drugs are. Hell, Vioxx was subjected to double blind placebo controlled studies before approval... and it still wound up killing people and costing Merck billions in settlements. Given the additional fact that vaccine manufacturers are exempt from liability -- Caveat Emptor!

We are told that vaccines create immunity -- and in spite of the lack of research done to prove efficacy I have no reason to doubt this. I do have a problem with the logic of trying to mandate vaccines for everyone though. If they create immunity for me, why should I care if you are vaccinated or not? If I'm immune to the disease you have, I shouldn't care.

If we explore this conflict of logic we will find some doublethink at work. At the individual level, we are given the thumbs up & told that vaccines will protect us 100%. When the argument is made for for vaccine mandates though; we discover the "herd immunity" argument, which is based on the idea that vaccines don't work for everyone, and that we need to vaccinate a large percent of the population to prevent a particular disease from proliferating. So do vaccines work all the time, or just some of the time? You can't have it both ways.

[Brian Lee]

Originally Posted by Rabbi

That is not a "study" that is a sales pitch.

Pure BS.

I actually agree with Rabbi today.

That wasn't a "study" - just a sales pitch.

[RonS]

Natural selection applies to species, not individuals. The ability of a species to get food, make babies and keep them alive pretty much defines survival of the fittest. Refusing to wear clothing to keep warm, build shelters, cultivate food or employ medical technology might make stronger, tougher individuals of the few who survived but would be a good way to test if cockroaches really would inherit the earth after the human race goes extinct.

[Brian Lee]

Originally Posted by Glocksanity

The US is the world leader in autism by a staggering large margin.

We are also the world leader in mandatory vaccines.

You do the math.

Maybe the autism is caused not by vaccines, but by any one of the other million or so possible causes that are currently up for debate.

I lean toward the belief that we should probably keep the vaccines and stop feeding our kids non-stop junk food made out of field corn that's been dosed with higher levels of herbicide than ever before.

[sputnik767]

Originally Posted by Brian Lee

Maybe the autism is caused not by vaccines, but by any one of the other million or so possible causes that are currently up for debate.

I lean toward the belief that we should probably keep the vaccines and stop feeding our kids non-stop junk food made out of field corn that's been dosed with higher levels of herbicide than ever before.

This is actually an excellent point. I have seen some studies that suggest our dependence on corn, especially in the form of high fructose corn syrup is possibly contributing to the obesity epidemic. Without getting into too much detail, the metabolism of glucose is very highly regulated in your body, whereas the metabolism of fructose is virtually unregulated. HFCS is obviously mainly fructose, whereas sucrose (table sugar) is a dimer molecule of glucose and fructose. So still contains 50% fructose, but not as much as HFCS.

[Paul53]

If an Aborigine designed an IQ test, all of Western civilization would presumably fail.

[cowboy1964]

Vaccinations cause Herpes?? Wow, learn something every day.

[Rabbi]

Originally Posted by Paul53

If an Aborigine designed an IQ test, all of Western civilization would presumably fail.

Cultural bias in testing is real but your statement is not true. cross cultural psychology has a pretty good handle on these sort of things. "IQ" is pretty universal(even if some groups are smarter than others) if we remove the bias (which would not be "IQ"

[F14Scott]

Originally Posted by OlliesRevenge

We are told that vaccines create immunity -- and in spite of the lack of research done to prove efficacy I have no reason to doubt this. I do have a problem with the logic of trying to mandate vaccines for everyone though. If they create immunity for me, why should I care if you are vaccinated or not? If I'm immune to the disease you have, I shouldn't care.

If we explore this conflict of logic we will find some doublethink at work. At the individual level, we are given the thumbs up & told that vaccines will protect us 100%. When the argument is made for for vaccine mandates though; we discover the "herd immunity" argument, which is based on the idea that vaccines don't work for everyone, and that we need to vaccinate a large percent of the population to prevent a particular disease from proliferating. So do vaccines work all the time, or just some of the time? You can't have it both ways.

I don't think anyone says vaccines are 100 percent effective. Vaccines are most effective when used on populations, rather than individuals, precisely because they are less than 100 percent effective. when you take a vaccine that is say, 98 percent effective and use it on in a population, the herd immunity that happens at the roughly 85 percent immunized range protects the other 2 percent.

[TactiCool]

Originally Posted by Geko45

If you know anything at all about how clinical studies are performed you would know that no one would ever make that claim no matter how compelling the evidence. Even if you find strong evidence of a corollary effect, there are always residuals (or errors) that represent other factors that have at least some influence. So, you either intentionally stated your request in a manner you knew would be unsupportable or you have no idea what you're talking about.

At any rate, a cursory search turned up this study which showed that at least one of the diagnostic systems used for identifying autism has most likely been overdiagnosing the disorder.

Three diagnostic systems for autism: DSM-III, DSM-III-R, and ICD-10

I appreciate you looking up that study for me, really I do. However the study is from 1992 and says nothing about the subsequent publications, so it does not conclusively correlate to the dramatic increases in autism cases that we see under the use of DSMIV and DSMIV-TR.

Really, I don't think DSMIII-R is culprit, since the drastic spike in autism occurred after the newer DSMIV was published in 1994.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/data.html

http://www.americanchiropractic.net/...%20pf%20ed.pdf

[airmotive]

Am I the only person who can see my posts?
Am I on everyone's ignore list? (probably a pretty decent chance on that one).

Again....My wife, who is and has been a healthcare professional for 15 years, was just recently evaluated and found to be on the autism spectrum. (Asbergers) She has just become one of the numbers.

She has not changed in the last 39 years.
The definition of autism has changed.

I bet if quite a few GTers took some simple online surveyes, you just might find yourself to be a natural born window licker.

[AK_Stick]

Originally Posted by airmotive

Am I the only person who can see my posts?
Am I on everyone's ignore list? (probably a pretty decent chance on that one).

Again....My wife, who is and has been a healthcare professional for 15 years, was just recently evaluated and found to be on the autism spectrum. (Asbergers) She has just become one of the numbers.

She has not changed in the last 39 years.
The definition of autism has changed.

I bet if quite a few GTers took some simple online surveyes, you just might find yourself a natural born window licker.

Hell, I'm a certified window licker

<<<<CE....

[MrGlock21]

Originally Posted by G36's Rule

This thread has potential. Just need a few more GNG nutbaggers to show up...

well... I ,too, thought that there was potential. But when reading on, I got bored ...The usual egotistical exersice of back and forth 'lecturing' sometimes wears out pretty quick.

[OctoberRust]

[Hauptmann6]

Originally Posted by Rabbi

and some Jew, somewhere, doing his Jewy Jewish things!

So you admit that it's all your fault!

[MtBaldy]

Originally Posted by airmotive

Am I the only person who can see my posts?
Am I on everyone's ignore list? .

Ya know, I've often wanted a function to see who's, or at least how many, "Ignore" lists I'm on. Then, after reflecting, I usually come to the conclusion I'd probably rather not know. At any rate, you're not on mine.

[SDGlock23]

There has been for quite some time now evidence pointing to autism being induced by vaccinations. Many articles can be found on this, here is just one http://www.naturalnews.com/027178_autism_vaccines.html

Also what better way to keep the populace needing the drugs the major pharmaceutical companies cash in on than to infect the very people who will be needing them? They load up our children with all sorts of bad stuff via forced vaccinations and all. I'm not saying all of it is bad, but how do you know that they aren't sneaking things into the vaccine that they won't tell you about?

[OctoberRust]

Originally Posted by airmotive

Am I the only person who can see my posts?
Am I on everyone's ignore list? (probably a pretty decent chance on that one).

Again....My wife, who is and has been a healthcare professional for 15 years, was just recently evaluated and found to be on the autism spectrum. (Asbergers) She has just become one of the numbers.

She has not changed in the last 39 years.
The definition of autism has changed.

I bet if quite a few GTers took some simple online surveyes, you just might find yourself to be a natural born window licker.

Where can I take this test without forking out any money or going to a hospital? I'm willing to be I'm a window licker.

[djf]

Originally Posted by Glocksanity

The US is the world leader in autism by a staggering large margin.

We are also the world leader in mandatory vaccines.

You do the math.

Interesting you mention this. I work in the Autism research field. One of my customers is Ami Klin who is arguably the top researcher in the field of Autism. They all say that Autism is most likely a genetic disorder.

Here's a Ted talk by Ami Klin. Note how he never mentions vaccines.

http://www.ted.com/talks/ami_klin_a_...se_autism.html

Basically, I'm suggesting that you're completely full of crap.

[.264 magnum]

Originally Posted by djf

Interesting you mention this. I work in the Autism research field. One of my customers is Ami Klin who is arguably the top researcher in the field of Autism. They all say that Autism is most likely a genetic disorder.

Here's a Ted talk by Ami Klin. Note how he never mentions vaccines.

http://www.ted.com/talks/ami_klin_a_...se_autism.html

Basically, I'm suggesting that you're completely full of crap.

Agreed the OP and several others in this thread at 100% full of crap.

[Brucev]

Originally Posted by Glocksanity

http://healthimpactnews.com/2011/new...ated-children/



And now you know why.

They make vaccines mandatory. They give unlimited indemnity to the vaccine manufacturers. The population gets sicker and sicker and we end up with Obamacare. What a great country!!

Someone needs to get some sleep. That often helps irrational thinking.

[Rabbi]

Originally Posted by Hauptmann6

So you admit that it's all your fault!

Oh no...not my fault...my design!