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Old 10-14-2012, 16:32   #301
tantrix
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Originally Posted by F14Scott View Post
I will say that you are awfully invested in transmitting your own preferences to the participants in this thread, including declaring those who disagree with you "sheep," for someone who doesn't care one way or another.
Yep...because the very definition of "sheep" would be people who do what the government (CDC) recommends without question.

I question every decision I make in my life.



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If you can make a statement without a logical fallacy, I'll be glad to respond. Otherwise, I've had enough of trying to "wrestle with a pig."
I could ask the same of you. For every point you could provide, I could offer a counter-point. We'd just be going around in circles for no reason.

Last edited by tantrix; 10-14-2012 at 16:36..
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Old 10-14-2012, 17:01   #302
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Yep...because the very definition of "sheep" would be people who do what the government (CDC) recommends without question.

I question every decision I make in my life.
And what if the answers to your questions are actually wrong and the government is actually right? While I have no idea where you got your "tons and tons of research," I suspect that it did not involve peer-reviewed sources. But at least you're not a sheep, right? And for the record, you have not put forth any credible evidence of your claims, yet you came here to voice an opinion that seems to go against established medical knowledge. Reading a book or an internet article that you agree with does not make it correct or legitimate, and it makes you no less of a sheep. And who do you think is more accurate, the person who wrote your book or article, or the thousands of staff at the CDC who analyze thousands of peer-reviewed publications before making their recommendations.

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Old 10-14-2012, 18:00   #303
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These vaccine threads are always another demonstration of helpless Americans dependence on government and other entities. I've already posted about Braasch and their free IRS money to develop a fat vaccine.

The helplessness extends to people who need the First Lady to tell them how to diet, or Arnold telling citizens how to exercise in his government program.

No, there's no conspiracy here, but you really don't need one. Abundant, fat Americans are all to willing to cede the basics of living to tax dollars. Combine that with arrogant doctors who try to control every aspect of nature, and you have the perfect cocktail to erode common sense living.
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Old 10-14-2012, 18:18   #304
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And what if the answers to your questions are actually wrong and the government is actually right? While I have no idea where you got your "tons and tons of research," I suspect that it did not involve peer-reviewed sources. But at least you're not a sheep, right? And for the record, you have not put forth any credible evidence of your claims, yet you came here to voice an opinion that seems to go against established medical knowledge. Reading a book or an internet article that you agree with does not make it correct or legitimate, and it makes you no less of a sheep. And who do you think is more accurate, the person who wrote your book or article, or the thousands of staff at the CDC who analyze thousands of peer-reviewed publications before making their recommendations.

And what if the CDC isn't right? Obviously they don't have it all figured out, or vaccines wouldn't even be a debate. And the research I did was from both sides of the argument...many articles, and many 1st hand recommendations. I decided accordingly.


Again, this is you telling me 'your' doctors are more knowledgeable than 'my' doctors...your docs are right, and the ones I consulted with are wrong.

At the end of the day, they are all doctors. Believe whichever ones you want to, I don't really care.
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Old 10-14-2012, 18:35   #305
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Originally Posted by tantrix View Post
And what if the CDC isn't right? Obviously they don't have it all figured out, or vaccines wouldn't even be a debate. And the research I did was from both sides of the argument...many articles, and many 1st hand recommendations. I decided accordingly.


Again, this is you telling me 'your' doctors are more knowledgeable than 'my' doctors...your docs are right, and the ones I consulted with are wrong.

At the end of the day, they are all doctors. Believe whichever ones you want to, I don't really care.

Wait. When did you stop trusting the doc who ultimately was proved a fraud?

There's reasonable questioning there's cynicism and there's bold faced stupidity.
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Old 10-14-2012, 19:03   #306
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And what if the CDC isn't right? Obviously they don't have it all figured out, or vaccines wouldn't even be a debate. And the research I did was from both sides of the argument...many articles, and many 1st hand recommendations. I decided accordingly.


Again, this is you telling me 'your' doctors are more knowledgeable than 'my' doctors...your docs are right, and the ones I consulted with are wrong.

At the end of the day, they are all doctors. Believe whichever ones you want to, I don't really care.
Very rarely do you ever have it "all figured out." Outside of the basic laws of our universe, most things have the ability to be proven wrong. That fact itself makes these things valid scientific theories. In the end, doctors are human beings and they have their own opinions. But if the doctors you are listening to are advising against following the established guidelines, I have to question their validity. As I am sure you know, the majority of doctors are not researchers, and there are legitimate organizations that present information to doctors based on current guidelines. That's why docs subscribe to journals such as the one put out by AAFP (American Academy of Family Physicians). The fact that you are willing to listen to people who are going against the mountains of legitimate research is worrisome.

So no, this debate is not about believing the docs that are on whatever side of the debate. It is about you trying to desperately prove that you are right for not following the established guidelines, without providing as much as a single shred of evidence (credible or otherwise) to back up your claims. The conclusion I draw from this is that you actually have no clue about what is going on, and are simply choosing to listen to whatever appeals to you. And that is not the same as questioning or cynicism, it is just plain stupid. So do us all a favor: keep living your life the way you want, but quit trying to publicly justify your actions. Lots of people are like you and they don't have a clue about this issue, and the blind leading the blind generally does not result in anything good.

In the end, if the day ever comes that the vaccination schedule is modified for whatever reason, it will not be because people like you were right. As you never did any real research, you can only be right by pure, dumb luck. No, it will be changed because a sufficient quantity of peer-reviewed research will have been done to recommend a change. In the end, the reason we have a CDC is not because of some government conspiracy to feed the pharma companies as some here have implied. Our CDC and various state agencies are there to formulate action plans to prevent and/or contain infectious diseases, and they have been doing a pretty good job of it.

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Old 10-14-2012, 19:50   #307
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So no, this debate is not about believing the docs that are on whatever side of the debate. It is about you trying to desperately prove that you are right for not following the established guidelines, without providing as much as a single shred of evidence (credible or otherwise) to back up your claims. The conclusion I draw from this is that you actually have no clue about what is going on, and are simply choosing to listen to whatever appeals to you. And that is not the same as questioning or cynicism, it is just plain stupid. So do us all a favor: keep living your life the way you want, but quit trying to publicly justify your actions. Lots of people are like you and they don't have a clue about this issue, and the blind leading the blind generally does not result in anything good.

I'm not desperately trying to prove anything, I simply stated how I do things and why. You seem to have a stick up your ass because I don't follow the CDC, and that's fine...but you aren't proving anything revolutionary by any means talking about all these 'reputable sources'. And for the 50th time, I'm not here to provide evidence for anybody. If you don't know, then that's on you...I have researched both sides, and all this stuff you're spewing is not as "credible" as you'd like to think it is.

I have 4 perfectly healthy kids that have been on a modified vaccination schedule since the day they were born, so apparently I'm doing something right.


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In the end, if the day ever comes that the vaccination schedule is modified for whatever reason, it will not be because people like you were right.
My money says that's exactly why it will be modified...but again, I don't really care because I don't have to follow it anyway.



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As you never did any real research, you can only be right by pure, dumb luck.
I didn't do any real research? Way to go assuming, since I already said I researched plenty on the subject before coming to a conclusion. Just because my conclusion doesn't worship the CDC will have to be your problem, not mine.

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Old 10-14-2012, 20:01   #308
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I didn't do any real research? Way to go assuming, since I already said I researched plenty on the subject before coming to a conclusion. Just because my conclusion doesn't worship the CDC will have to be your problem, not mine.
Haha, I am not assuming anything, I know you haven't done any real research. Again reading a book or an internet article doesn't count. After all, one of your talking points was that "the CDC schedule looks like it was put together by a kindergartener." That by itself makes me questions anything else you have to say, as well as the validity of your "research." Otherwise, you can surely give me at least a brief synopsis on cell-mediated immunity, the different types (chemical composition) of vaccines, and how they stimulate your immune system. Maybe you can also tell me why some vaccines are given later than others, and why some require boosters and some don't. If you don't even understand the basics, you haven't researched dork, and are just regurgitating what some jackwagon wrote in an article. At least most people who don't have an understanding of the topic have the common sense to follow the recommendations as laid out by the scientific and medical community. I don't have a stick up anything, how you live your life is irrelevant to me. But when you try to influence others based on no knowledge or facts, it becomes a problem. And unlike you, I actually know a thing or two about immunology. And if you didn't come here to prove a point, why are you in this thread in the first place? Nice try though. As you can see, I never once told you what to do or how you should live your life, and neither did anybody else. My sole reason for responding to your posts (and others) is so others know not to listen to you and your kind. Do what you want, but keep the stupidity to yourself.

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Old 10-14-2012, 20:43   #309
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Mandatory frightens a lot of people, depending on what is mandated, but that is good. We can always expect some people to act on that fear, stir the pot and more. Diversity within the population ensures that when environmental challenges threaten mainstream, the diverse may have the opportunity to sustain the species. (Natural selection at work). So there were always be extremists at the ends of the normal distribution and we will suffer them. In the long run diversity maximizes the survival of our species. In the short run those who are extreme can be insufferable and even dangerous. Entertaining and enlightening discussions. I am glad public policy is subject to review.
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Old 10-14-2012, 21:11   #310
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Originally Posted by sputnik767 View Post
Haha, I am not assuming anything, I know you haven't done any real research.
There you go assuming again.


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Originally Posted by sputnik767 View Post
After all, one of your talking points was that "the CDC schedule looks like it was put together by a kindergartener." That by itself makes me questions anything else you have to say, as well as the validity of your "research."
It does, and that's exactly why I said it is because I have done research. Stop trying to make it out to be more than it is, because the CDC schedule is about as generic as it could possibly be.


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Maybe you can also tell me why some vaccines are given later than others, and why some require boosters and some don't. If you don't even understand the basics, you haven't researched dork, and are just regurgitating what some jackwagon wrote in an article.
There you go assuming yet again. You're assuming I don't know these things, and only you do.

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At least most people who don't have an understanding of the topic have the common sense to follow the recommendations as laid out by the scientific and medical community.
It's funny you say that, since both the scientific and medical community are in disagreement over vaccines. Oh wait, you already took your side in that fight, so obviously only your answers are the correct ones...


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I don't have a stick up anything, how you live your life is irrelevant to me. But when you try to influence others based on no knowledge or facts, it becomes a problem.
Wait, tell me again where I tried to influence anybody? I think I only said about 20 times in this thread I don't care what anybody else does. You seem to be the only one trying to influence anybody, my decision was made a long time ago...by people far more qualified than you on the subject.

Last edited by tantrix; 10-14-2012 at 21:13..
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Old 10-14-2012, 22:28   #311
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my decision was made a long time ago...by people far more qualified than you on the subject.


Speaking of assumptions, that's about as big as it gets. With this one statement, you are assuming that the people you are listening to are more qualified than the the medical community at large, researchers at the CDC, and of course you are assuming that I am not qualified either. I for one don't particularly care to continue this discussion with you, as you obviously avoid or brush off any questions that you can't answer. You don't have a clue about this topic, and at this point that is not an assumption on my part. Any if you didn't come here to influence others, why did you come here? My answers are correct based on current research. Your answers came out of your butt. Take care.

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Old 10-14-2012, 23:38   #312
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My answers are correct based on current research.
That's funny...so are mine! Wonder how we came to different conclusions?

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Old 10-14-2012, 23:44   #313
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You're simply trying to defend the CDC schedule as if it's the only right way, and that's obviously not the case. But again, if you feel confident in the CDC schedule by all means use it...nobody's going to stop you.
Please quote the passage in which I stated the CDC schedule was the only right way, or retract that assertion that I made such a claim.

I never made any claims - I only asked you if you had any evidence that didn't originate in your lower colon prior to your stating your opinions as fact. It is apparent that you have no evidence, but that you are so arrogant to think that you're so much smarter than the decades of researchers evaluating the entire concept of a vaccine schedule simply because the CDC schedule comes from a government office and yours comes from a book by a doctor (and not an immunologist/epidemiologist).

There are books written by history experts or PhDs that clam the holocaust never happened and other insane stuff. That doesn't mean they're correct. It just means they're pushing an agenda and making money off ignorant people at the same time.
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Old 10-14-2012, 23:52   #314
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sorry--I don't believe that vaccines are making us sicker

we build immunities from vaccines. At most I have felt a little anemic from a vaccination, which who knows may or may not be in the head.
Live viruses and diseases make us sick--and sicker in general than years ago I feel. Much more disease now than 30 years ago because we transfer sickness around the globe in days rather than weeks now.

no fan of obamacare for sure--but it has little to do with vaccinations.

you don't want vaccinations--why not move you and your kids to some third world country where disease and plague run rampant because they don't have them. you are less at risk here because more of the population is not able to transfer disease having been vaccinated.

many diseases have been nearly wiped out due to vaccination programs. I can't buy into this hype
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Old 10-15-2012, 00:27   #315
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Please quote the passage in which I stated the CDC schedule was the only right way, or retract that assertion that I made such a claim.

I never made any claims - I only asked you if you had any evidence that didn't originate in your lower colon prior to your stating your opinions as fact. It is apparent that you have no evidence, but that you are so arrogant to think that you're so much smarter than the decades of researchers evaluating the entire concept of a vaccine schedule simply because the CDC schedule comes from a government office and yours comes from a book by a doctor (and not an immunologist/epidemiologist).

There are books written by history experts or PhDs that clam the holocaust never happened and other insane stuff. That doesn't mean they're correct. It just means they're pushing an agenda and making money off ignorant people at the same time.

My research didn't come from a book. I said the modified vaccine schedule I use is the one developed by Dr Sears. Nowhere in this thread did I ever say that I had any book from any author whatsoever.

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Old 10-15-2012, 04:15   #316
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Tantrix/Sputnik....just a casual observation on the breakdown in comms here:

It sounds like you are working from two different definitions of the word "research". Sput's idea of research is the science world's definition, involving double blind studies and peer review in an effort to discover knowledge previously unknown to mankind, while Tantrix is using the high school term paper idea of research...finding information previously unknown only to himself.

Kinda like when the next evolution debate fires up and one side uses the scientific term "theory", while the other side uses the word in layman's terms. Very different meanings for the same word.
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Old 10-15-2012, 04:49   #317
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Tantrix/Spotnik....just a casual observation on the breakdown in comms here:

It sounds like you are working from two different definitions of the word "research". Sput's idea of research is the science world's definition, involving double blind studies and peer review in an effort to discover knowledge previously unknown to mankind, while Tantrix is using the high school term paper idea of research...finding information previously unknown unly to himself.

Kinda like when the next evolution debate fires up and one side uses the scientific term "theory", while the other side uses the word in layman's terms. Very different meanings for the same word.
Yes, that is exactly right. My definition of the term relates only to the peer-reviewed primary sources or to peer-reviewed research summary articles that you can find in medical journals. What I do not consider research are opinion pieces, written by random authors, no matter who the authors claim to be or what side they are on.
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Old 10-15-2012, 06:24   #318
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My research didn't come from a book. I said the modified vaccine schedule I use is the one developed by Dr Sears. Nowhere in this thread did I ever say that I had any book from any author whatsoever.
Then please share with us just one piece of evidence Dr. Sears cited during his development of the modified schedule that shows that it is safer. Or show us the source through which you learned of Dr. Sears's schedule, since I am sure that source includes plenty of scientific studies showing irrefutable proof of such a strong claim as the CDC schedule is killing kids and the Sears schedule is safer.

Or, just deflect with some half-assed accusation or witty retort and ignore the substance of my post. Whichever works for you.

BTW, where's that retraction that I was advocating that the CDC schedule is the only correct one? Are you incapable of even admitting you were wrong about something that small?
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Old 10-15-2012, 06:26   #319
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Tantrix/Sputnik....just a casual observation on the breakdown in comms here:

It sounds like you are working from two different definitions of the word "research". Sput's idea of research is the science world's definition, involving double blind studies and peer review in an effort to discover knowledge previously unknown to mankind, while Tantrix is using the high school term paper idea of research...finding information previously unknown only to himself.

Kinda like when the next evolution debate fires up and one side uses the scientific term "theory", while the other side uses the word in layman's terms. Very different meanings for the same word.
Pretty soon, Tantrix will try to point us to a Wiki page. After all, it has citations and everything!!
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:44   #320
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Very rarely do you ever have it "all figured out." Outside of the basic laws of our universe, most things have the ability to be proven wrong.
Even the basic laws of our universe. Physicists and cosmologists are always learning.
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