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Old 10-08-2012, 11:39   #26
WoodenPlank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT HATRED View Post
I too have had problems with tula in my bushmaster. The case jamming in the barrel and without a ram it's impossible to get out. However this happens occasionally with all the steel cased ammo I purchased. I found a guy selling 800 rounds of mixed ammo for 80$. It was wolf classic military, tula and brown bear. Not every mag would have a jam but it happened more frequently with the tula...
It's possible to get one out without a ram, depending on how bad it is. I've done it with a hung Wolf case in a Colt barrel by pulling back on the charging handle and mortaring the stock.

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If it functions with low powered ammo, it's over gassed, isn't it?
Not always.
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:40   #27
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Ive shot Tulammo in a 6920 and a midlength PSA upper with no issues. I shot 200 rnds of wolf in a stag model 3 when it was new no issues and then had a tulammo stick in the chamber after dumping a couple 30rnd mags. It was smoking hot. I popped it out with a cleaning rod when it cooled down and then shot ~100 more rounds without an issue.
I shoot Tulammo in 9mm,.40, and .45 without a problem.
It smells really bad tho.
I only use for range and plinking. WOULD NOT depend on it for defensive ammo.
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:52   #28
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For those having problems w/ stuck cases, check your chambers for size.
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Old 10-08-2012, 15:29   #29
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For those having problems w/ stuck cases, check your chambers for size.
In my case(heh), it was caused by a case mouth failure. Had another one 10 minutes later in a different gun from the same case of ammo.
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Old 10-08-2012, 15:49   #30
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Generally Silver Bear > Wolf > Brown Bear > Tula, but different rifles have preferences. Folks have seen improvement after cleaning and polishing their chambers, changing BCG's, and changing shock buffers.
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Old 10-08-2012, 16:18   #31
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Originally Posted by WoodenPlank View Post
In my case(heh), it was caused by a case mouth failure. Had another one 10 minutes later in a different gun from the same case of ammo.
Im not an ammunition guy at all. Is it possible to get a lot w/ thicker cases from the norm which would cause this issue w/ in-spec chambers?

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Originally Posted by Matthew Courtney View Post
Generally Silver Bear > Wolf > Brown Bear > Tula, but different rifles have preferences. Folks have seen improvement after cleaning and polishing their chambers, changing BCG's, and changing shock buffers.
I've had two issues w/ Silver Bear and Tula has been awesome in my experience.

Changing buffers can make a difference. Carrying a couple buffer of different weights is a good idea when trying out different ammunition.
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Old 10-08-2012, 16:24   #32
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The biggest thing is cleaning when switching between brass and steel case. I've shot some brass but mostly tulammo steel through my AR and after several hundred rounds I have yet to have any kind of malfunction. It is however a bit dirtier than most brass ammo, hence the more frequent cleaning.


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Old 10-08-2012, 16:29   #33
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Originally Posted by Bluestreakfl View Post
The biggest thing is cleaning when switching between brass and steel case. I've shot some brass but mostly tulammo steel through my AR and after several hundred rounds I have yet to have any kind of malfunction. It is however a bit dirtier than most brass ammo, hence the more frequent cleaning.


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I have heard this a lot but have experienced it not to be important. I've purposely loaded magazines w/ mixed brass and steel cased ammunition, hundreds of rounds at a time in one range trip. I did the same at a class this weekend. I never clean just lube.
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Old 10-08-2012, 16:45   #34
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The problem with steel case isn't the gun, it's the ammo. The steel case doesn't expand like brass, allowing spent gases and powder residue back into the chamber, instead of out the barrel. This builds up quickly on the chamber walls and bingo! ... casings get stuck. I've heard mixing 1 brass round for every 9 steel ones (3 brass rounds per mag) will help this problem, as the brass will gather a lot of the crap that's built up on the chamber walls and take it out with it. Just a trick I've heard/read.
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Old 10-08-2012, 17:12   #35
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WInterWizard, explain how people can go thousands of rounds w/o cleaning or issue w/ steel cased ammunition while some get cases stuck?
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Old 10-08-2012, 17:18   #36
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Originally Posted by mjkeat View Post
WInterWizard, explain how people can go thousands of rounds w/o cleaning or issue w/ steel cased ammunition while some get cases stuck?
though not directed toward me--there are a lot of variables from rifle to rifle, even from one manufacturer of lower parts kits to another.

cleaning and how well it previously maintained.

probably most crucial in this thread is the chamber of the barrel and headspacing. Also to this thread with reliability of low powered ammo would be the gas system--carbine would be best for lower powered ammo reliability
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Old 10-08-2012, 17:23   #37
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also different chamber types --there is Wylde, 223, and 556.

another thing is that from what I understand tulammo and or wolf have changed from a lacquer/shellac to a polymer/plastic coating to reduce hangups in the chamber--so even the age of the ammo could change things drastically
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Old 10-08-2012, 17:37   #38
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I've run thousands of rounds of tula through my bcm middy with zero malfunctions, but I always run the standard weight buffer with steel case. Running an H buffer increases the likelyhood of malfunctions to occur, for the obvious reasons, even in a 7" gas system.

Also, stay away from monarch steel case. It keyholes badly, and even in properly spec'd rifles too.
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Old 10-08-2012, 18:30   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT HATRED View Post
I too have had problems with tula in my bushmaster. The case jamming in the barrel and without a ram it's impossible to get out. However this happens occasionally with all the steel cased ammo I purchased. I found a guy selling 800 rounds of mixed ammo for 80$. It was wolf classic military, tula and brown bear. Not every mag would have a jam but it happened more frequently with the tula...
yep.. I have been seeing this since 98-99 and its the reason I do not use soviet stuff in a AR.
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Old 10-08-2012, 18:41   #40
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I'd pay a bit more and get some PMC Bronze .223 55grain. Funtion and accuracy are great in my 6920. Went to a gun show yesterday and just about everyone selling ammo had it for $7 a box or less.
I second this, if you look hard you can get it for $6 a box. But $7 is pretty dang good...

check luckygunner.com, sportsmansguide.com, ammotogo.com

I'm sure others can give you some more suggestions.
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Old 10-08-2012, 19:15   #41
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I get so confused. I have never had a stuck case using steel cased ammunition. In fact I have had only 3 issues w/ steel cased ammunition in thousands of rounds (2 short strokes, and one failure to feed w/ a HP round. What am I doing wrong? Have I just been extremely lucky? Someone help me understand.

What manufacture of AR are some of you using when having issues w/ steel cased ammunition?
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Old 10-08-2012, 19:36   #42
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WInterWizard, explain how people can go thousands of rounds w/o cleaning or issue w/ steel cased ammunition while some get cases stuck?
Because for the most part, it's not an issue. Also remember, not every gun is identical, not every shooter maintains their rifle the same, and not every shooter shoots the same amount of steel case ammo in one outing. Get it...?

Consider yourself lucky that you don't have an issue. But if you are implying that steel case ammo doesn't cause problems and everyone is imagining things or lying, then you've got issues, my friend.

Last edited by WinterWizard; 10-08-2012 at 19:37..
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Old 10-08-2012, 19:47   #43
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Because for the most part, it's not an issue. Also remember, not every gun is identical, not every shooter maintains their rifle the same, and not every shooter shoots the same amount of steel case ammo in one outing. Get it...?

Consider yourself lucky that you don't have an issue. But if you are implying that steel case ammo doesn't cause problems and everyone is imagining things or lying, then you've got issues, my friend.
So where's the variation? I never clean, I treat my rifles like the tool they are. I let them sit out in the rain all day this past Sat. I've done the same thing w/ 7 different ARs I've owned w/ the same results. Everything from Spikes, DD, BCM, LWRC, and personally assembled using DD BCGs and higher end barrels. I run steel almost exclusively. You'd think if anyone had problems it would be me. Don't you think?

I'm saying anyone is lying. I'm saying people may need to take a closer look at the equipment they are using. I'd like to know what rifles are having issues.

Not busting anyones chops, just confused as to why some do and some don't have issues. And why some insist it's the ammunition and not the rifle when some can run the ammo 99%.
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Old 10-08-2012, 19:54   #44
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So where's the variation? I never clean, I treat my rifles like the tool they are. I let them sit out in the rain all day this past Sat. I've done the same thing w/ 7 different ARs I've owned w/ the same results. Everything from Spikes, DD, BCM, LWRC, and personally assembled using DD BCGs and higher end barrels. I run steel almost exclusively. You'd think if anyone had problems it would be me. Don't you think?

I'm saying anyone is lying. I'm saying people may need to take a closer look at the equipment they are using. I'd like to know what rifles are having issues.

Not busting anyones chops, just confused as to why some do and some don't have issues. And why some insist it's the ammunition and not the rifle when some can run the ammo 99%.
Some rifles with tighter/properly/improperly cut chambers, ammunition manufacturing variations from lot to lot, etc. Tolerance stacking can be a bear.
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Old 10-08-2012, 21:24   #45
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So where's the variation? I never clean, I treat my rifles like the tool they are. I let them sit out in the rain all day this past Sat. I've done the same thing w/ 7 different ARs I've owned w/ the same results. Everything from Spikes, DD, BCM, LWRC, and personally assembled using DD BCGs and higher end barrels. I run steel almost exclusively. You'd think if anyone had problems it would be me. Don't you think?

I'm saying anyone is lying. I'm saying people may need to take a closer look at the equipment they are using. I'd like to know what rifles are having issues.

Not busting anyones chops, just confused as to why some do and some don't have issues. And why some insist it's the ammunition and not the rifle when some can run the ammo 99%.
Well, there are .223 chambers and 5.56 chambers. Chrome-lined chambers and non-chrome-lined chambers. Clean guns, dirty guns. Etc, etc, etc.

I am not saying if you run steel ammo you WILL have a problem. I am just saying it CAN happen. And there really is not much rhyme or reason as to what rifles will be affected.

As I said before, you haven't had a problem. Good for you. Shoot cheap, steel-cased ammo to your heart's content.
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Old 10-08-2012, 22:31   #46
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The problem with steel case isn't the gun, it's the ammo.
It can happen w/ any ammunition.

This is what I'm questioning. Please explain why when in my experience the issue seems to be in rifles from manufacturers who are known for having out of spec chambers. Blaming the ammunition appears to be a cover up for those who own or sell these ARs. Just like some manufacturers void warranties if steel cased ammunition is used.

And I'm not the only one who uses steel cased ammunition w/ no real issues. There are guys using 5-10k a year w/o issue.

There has been a lot of talk on this. I keep thinking there was a recent article where a guy w/ help from friends ran through a pallet full of wolf w/o issue.

Last edited by mjkeat; 10-08-2012 at 22:35..
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Old 10-09-2012, 04:36   #47
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Tula or Wolf?
NEITHER!
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:43   #48
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I love Wolf in my rifle,I can cm at 250,kinda like that.'08.
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Old 10-09-2012, 13:04   #49
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I always figure you get what you pay for.
I pay $4.97/20 at walmart for Tulammo and thats about $2 cheaper than any brass case I can find.
I think its worth the chance of a stuck case every now and then. Although it seems very rare.
I had a bad round last week. Tried to fire 3 times and
primer never ignited.
When I want the best odds for flawless function I use the
now more expensive brass case ammo.
Only had a stuck case in Stag.
I shot Wolf in the same rifle when it was new and it never failed.

Last edited by RJHUB; 10-09-2012 at 13:05..
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Old 10-09-2012, 15:46   #50
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Originally Posted by RJHUB View Post
I always figure you get what you pay for.
I pay $4.97/20 at walmart for Tulammo and thats about $2 cheaper than any brass case I can find.
I think its worth the chance of a stuck case every now and then. Although it seems very rare.
I had a bad round last week. Tried to fire 3 times and
primer never ignited.
When I want the best odds for flawless function I use the
now more expensive brass case ammo.
Only had a stuck case in Stag.
I shot Wolf in the same rifle when it was new and it never failed.
Thing is, when you buy individual boxes of ammo, you don't always know how it was stored or transported so moisture could be an issue. That is why I always buy spam cans to ensure that the ammunition is not compromised before I put it into the gun.
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