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Old 10-10-2012, 19:27   #201
jeepinbandit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
The mere prescence of a naked man and woman in bed doesn't mean something is going to happen either. But, it is likely. The officers do have the right to stop and engage in a consenual encounter. He did. He could have even conducted a Terry stop on that. He chose another route. Or, he could have ingored the situation, and then feel terrible later if they were out to thrill kill and record their exploits.
I'm going to say go back and re-read the thread I didn't agree with what they did as far as being *********s but I'll defend their right to 1) carry a weapon in public and 2) be *********s even though I don't agree with it. I also complemented the officer in the way he handled the situation. It's how it should be handled.

I hate the Westboro Church ****ers but I'll defend their first amendment right to be *********s because the first amendment applies to everyone. Even people who are dicks. But then I exercise my right to participate in the Patriot Guard and block them.

Do I agree with the way some OCers go about their business? Nope. But they have the right to do so and carry a firearm.

The Police DO NOT have the right to disarm or arrest them or detain them longer than is necessary or at all.
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Old 10-10-2012, 19:57   #202
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Originally Posted by jeepinbandit View Post
The Police DO NOT have the right to disarm or arrest them or detain them longer than is necessary or at all.
Agree 100% w/the longer than necessary. The OCers, however; where in control of the duration of the stop. Had they just showed ID. They would have been able to go a lot sooner.

The at all part, yah we do have the right to disarm and detain.
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Old 10-10-2012, 20:06   #203
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Originally Posted by frizz View Post
Now that would make for some good youtube viewing!


Don't tase me bro!

REMIX: "Can't Tase This" UF Student Tasered - YouTube

Prepare to wet your pants at :19.
That is good but this is better....

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Old 10-10-2012, 20:07   #204
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Actually I think at one point they were told they could leave if they wanted to. I'd have to go back to re-watch the video. Those guys were *********s no doubt about it, and I maintain that being a ******r is not only not illegal but constitutionally protected, but most of my comments weren't directed at that video. Go back a page or two and I posted a video of a Marine officer that got stopped in Wyoming and got hassled by some unprofessional deputies that's where most of my "angst" is coming from I guess.
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Old 10-10-2012, 20:13   #205
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Awesome cop. These kids are stupid.
He seemed pretty cool to me.
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Old 10-10-2012, 20:19   #206
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Originally Posted by jeepinbandit View Post
Actually I think at one point they were told they could leave if they wanted to. I'd have to go back to re-watch the video. Those guys were *********s no doubt about it, and I maintain that being a ******r is not only not illegal but constitutionally protected, but most of my comments weren't directed at that video. Go back a page or two and I posted a video of a Marine officer that got stopped in Wyoming and got hassled by some unprofessional deputies that's where most of my "angst" is coming from I guess.
So you're not looking at anything objectively are you?
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Old 10-11-2012, 00:09   #207
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Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
So would a concealed 1911 with a few extra magazines.
I concur that a concealed pistol is the best way, but what if the Mini-14 is his only firearm?

My devil's advocate point is yes, a shoulder slung rifle in front of a strip mall is 99% of the time unreasonable, but there could be a reasonable explanation.

I'll go out on a limb and say that it is so out of the ordinary that there is RAS for a Terry stop.
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Old 10-11-2012, 00:21   #208
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Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
The mere prescence of a naked man and woman in bed doesn't mean something is going to happen either. But, it is likely.
This is off the path, but....


I don't know if this was a civil case with the preponderance standard or a criminal adultery case with the reasonable doubt standard, but there is a 1950s case in which the evidence was a man & woman going into a motel room and leaving a couple of hours later.

The holding was that it was a reasonable inference that knocking boots took place. I think it even said or implied that thinking otherwise was boneheaded.
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:22   #209
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I think you should change the title to a very professional police officer dealing with buttheads. The officer did a very good job dealing with people that only want the attention. There was no other reason for this video. Good job officer Estes. Why do people have to make a difficult even tougher. I am all for firearms ownership and carry but there also needs to be some common sense applied here. If there would have been someone hurt/shot and the police would not have tried to maintain public safety, I sure there would have been outcry by the public asking why no one checked on someone carrying an AR down a street. Grow up a little. That is is a perfect example of why some people think of gun owners as nutjobs.
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:52   #210
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A few points...
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Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
Open carrying an AR or something of that nature in a shopping center parking lot will get you a second and closer look, likely due to this:

2917.11 Disorderly conduct.
(A) No person shall recklessly cause inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm to another by doing any of the following:

(5) Creating a condition that is physically offensive to persons or that presents a risk of physical harm to persons or property, by any act that serves no lawful and reasonable purpose of the offender.
Hmm, I'm in Ohio too, and don't see where OC would be physically offensive to any person or persons, nor that it would present a risk of physical harm, provided that it is done in a responsible manner by a person who is legally able to be in possession of said weapon. A disorderly issued under those circumstances would be tossed in a second by any even halfway competent attorney.
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No lawful or reasonable purpose of the offender.

What exactly is your lawful and reasonable purpose to carry an assault rifle in a parking lot or what have you?

Yes, I understand your second amendment rights and all that. Mama and her two little kids don't deserve to see that when they go to the McDonald's play place.
The law is the law. Ohio is an open carry state. The law is not subject to your interpretation of what people 'deserve to see'. Again, the law is the law.

But of course, it appears that Consitutional rights are secondary to your opinion of what folks 'deserve to see' or not see, for that matter.
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This has been discussed at length with supervisors and our prosecutors, each of them, given the circumstances, would have no issue with an arrest under those circumstances.
Then your supervisors and your prosecutors are doing it wrong.
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Wear as many guns as you want, wear them concealed...
Makes sense.
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Originally Posted by Ohio Copper View Post
...the way it should be done.
Ah man... You were doing so well - until just then. Since Ohio is an open carry state, I guess 'the way it should be done' would be however the bearer of the firearm sees fit, regardless of interpretation by an individual officer.

Don't get me wrong. Personally, I think OC is silly. Would I arrest someone for it? Nope. Provided of course, it was being done in a safe, responsible manner by someone who is not prohibited by law from owning a firearm.

Like it or not, it is a legal right within the state of Ohio, regardless of how I (you, or anyone else) feel(s) about it.
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So you're not looking at anything objectively are you?
Oh, the irony.
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Again I reiterate, you do that in my neck of the woods and you WILL be proned out and arrested.
And if your pretense for that arrest was a simple OC, the arresting officer WILL be in violation of state law, regardless of how it works in your 'neck of the woods'.

Hello YouTube, Hello feeding the OC antagonist with just what he wants (attention), and Hello to the very real possibility of a decent lawyer making that arrest one HELL of a lot more hassle for you than it was worth, simply because you couldn't (or wouldn't) keep your ego in check, or because you feel you should be able to interpret state law via your own sense of what should and should not be.

As stated before - the law is the law. Uphold it proudly, responsibly and properly, or perhaps consider a new gig.
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:03   #211
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As to the video itself:

Those guys were idiots fishing for a reaction. Officer J. Estes handled it like a pro.

The 'Libertarians' acted like complete ****** bags from the word 'go'. They baited him, he didn't fall for it. Professionalism throughout the entire encounter.

No ego, no frustration, nothing - he simply refused to take the bait.

Hats off to Officer Estes. Well played, sir. Well played.
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:44   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simmy952 View Post
I think you should change the title to a very professional police officer dealing with buttheads. The officer did a very good job dealing with people that only want the attention. There was no other reason for this video. Good job officer Estes. Why do people have to make a difficult even tougher. I am all for firearms ownership and carry but there also needs to be some common sense applied here. If there would have been someone hurt/shot and the police would not have tried to maintain public safety, I sure there would have been outcry by the public asking why no one checked on someone carrying an AR down a street. Grow up a little. That is is a perfect example of why some people think of gun owners as nutjobs.

You missed the edit, which I added before you replied.

"EDIT: No, I'm not serious. The cop did a great job."
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Old 10-11-2012, 14:14   #213
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Glock-7,

Are you an LEO in Ohio or do you just live there?

The reason I ask is because you are bashing Ohio Copper for answers that in my region of Ohio, much of what he has pointed out would most likely be upheld. Granted, different district's case law is different, but one can easily make a case for disorderly conduct depending on how a long gun is carried.

Yes, Ohio is an open carry state. But, that is not a free invitation to carry anything you want however you want. I believe that is the point that Ohio Copper is trying to make in this case.
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Old 10-11-2012, 15:02   #214
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To add to 11A's response, the penalty for the state law is a minor misdemeanor, which means it is a non-arrestable offense. Many municipalities have their own (version) ordinance which may be an arrestable offense.

The purpose is not to prevent people from living their lives, the purpose is to pull the reins when a person's zaniness encroaches on other citizens rights.

So, to look at another way, if an individual wants to press it, they can pay the retainer to a halfway competent attorney for something equivalent to a speeding ticket to maybe get tossed or not.
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Old 10-11-2012, 15:05   #215
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Originally Posted by 11A View Post
Glock-7,

Are you an LEO in Ohio or do you just live there?

The reason I ask is because you are bashing Ohio Copper for answers that in my region of Ohio, much of what he has pointed out would most likely be upheld. Granted, different district's case law is different, but one can easily make a case for disorderly conduct depending on how a long gun is carried.

Yes, Ohio is an open carry state. But, that is not a free invitation to carry anything you want however you want. I believe that is the point that Ohio Copper is trying to make in this case.
Much appreciated and it would be upheld here, it's already been discussed and videos shown to prosecutors.
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Old 10-11-2012, 15:06   #216
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Originally Posted by Glock-7 View Post
A few points...

Hmm, I'm in Ohio too, and don't see where OC would be physically offensive to any person or persons, nor that it would present a risk of physical harm, provided that it is done in a responsible manner by a person who is legally able to be in possession of said weapon. A disorderly issued under those circumstances would be tossed in a second by any even halfway competent attorney.

The law is the law. Ohio is an open carry state. The law is not subject to your interpretation of what people 'deserve to see'. Again, the law is the law.

But of course, it appears that Consitutional rights are secondary to your opinion of what folks 'deserve to see' or not see, for that matter.

Then your supervisors and your prosecutors are doing it wrong.

Makes sense.

Ah man... You were doing so well - until just then. Since Ohio is an open carry state, I guess 'the way it should be done' would be however the bearer of the firearm sees fit, regardless of interpretation by an individual officer.

Don't get me wrong. Personally, I think OC is silly. Would I arrest someone for it? Nope. Provided of course, it was being done in a safe, responsible manner by someone who is not prohibited by law from owning a firearm.

Like it or not, it is a legal right within the state of Ohio, regardless of how I (you, or anyone else) feel(s) about it.

Oh, the irony.

And if your pretense for that arrest was a simple OC, the arresting officer WILL be in violation of state law, regardless of how it works in your 'neck of the woods'.

Hello YouTube, Hello feeding the OC antagonist with just what he wants (attention), and Hello to the very real possibility of a decent lawyer making that arrest one HELL of a lot more hassle for you than it was worth, simply because you couldn't (or wouldn't) keep your ego in check, or because you feel you should be able to interpret state law via your own sense of what should and should not be.

As stated before - the law is the law. Uphold it proudly, responsibly and properly, or perhaps consider a new gig.
Why would you pick certain points to go after and not read the totality of the posts and topic? Has nothing to do with ego it has to do with violation of the law and applicable responses.
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Old 10-11-2012, 15:13   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepinbandit View Post
I'm going to say go back and re-read the thread I didn't agree with what they did as far as being *********s but I'll defend their right to 1) carry a weapon in public and 2) be *********s even though I don't agree with it. I also complemented the officer in the way he handled the situation. It's how it should be handled.

I hate the Westboro Church ****ers but I'll defend their first amendment right to be *********s because the first amendment applies to everyone. Even people who are dicks. But then I exercise my right to participate in the Patriot Guard and block them.

Do I agree with the way some OCers go about their business? Nope. But they have the right to do so and carry a firearm.

The Police DO NOT have the right to disarm or arrest them or detain them longer than is necessary or at all.
Actually, he has the legal right to conduct a Terry stop.
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Old 10-11-2012, 15:35   #218
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Not all OCC people are like this:

Cop Talk

Some are like this:

Cop Talk

Either was, it is worth checking it out.
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Old 10-11-2012, 17:02   #219
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Originally Posted by jeepinbandit View Post
Actually I think at one point they were told they could leave if they wanted to. I'd have to go back to re-watch the video. Those guys were *********s no doubt about it, and I maintain that being a ******r is not only not illegal but constitutionally protected, but most of my comments weren't directed at that video. Go back a page or two and I posted a video of a Marine officer that got stopped in Wyoming and got hassled by some unprofessional deputies that's where most of my "angst" is coming from I guess.
Disturbing link on how service and OC doesn't mean a damn thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8-yc....1.f_UZzK-izkQ
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Old 10-11-2012, 19:11   #220
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I know these videos upset folks. But honestly I don't know why. In Or. they are not breaking any law. So whats the problem? If folks calling in don't have half a brain cell and don't know the law. Is that the OCers problem, muchless the police problem?

Now here it is a different game. On Nov. 1st if you have a CC permit you can then OC with limits to caliber and barrel length. ANY Police contact one has to state they are carrying and present your permit and ID when the officer is comphy with your intended body movements need to produce the government doc's. Be it concealed or open. And they can secure your weapon. No and if or butt's about it. And I will follow the letter of the law here and states that honor my permit. And honestly I don't have a over all issue with presenting. I know the cops will get some good warrant catches and there will be convicted felons picked up.

Around here I'm sure it will be a police nightmare in OKC, Tulsa, Edmund, Norman, Broken Arrow, Owasso and a few other useless places in the state. But on the other hand,,, the public should be educated. Just because a person is carrying does not mean they are a threat to you or anybody else. People really need to understand that if legal. They are more than likely over reacting. And should be held accountable IMHO. If I called in every speeder that went down my street. At some point that would be problem for police and I would get my ass chewed. Even though my street is known as a sort of bypass in town and 50 mph seems to be the norm in a 25 mph posted neighborhood.

It's going to get interesting here. And yes I will OC. And the weapon will be a G20 with a .360 BG or my PF-9 as bug.
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Old 10-11-2012, 20:33   #221
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Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
Disturbing link on how service and OC doesn't mean a damn thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8-yc....1.f_UZzK-izkQ
I have seen this one before, and it still gives me the creeps.

When the killer pulled the Carbine out, I kept thinking "shoot him! shoot him!" But I wasn't there facing a whackjob who was brandishing an effective rifle (that shoots a .308 110g @ 1990fps.)

I suspect that the ingrained instinct against killing other people may have had a role in the end of this man's life.

I note that the cop 1) was sacred to the point of terror, but didn't panic; and 2) died "with his boots on."
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Old 10-11-2012, 21:17   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
Disturbing link on how service and OC doesn't mean a damn thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8-yc....1.f_UZzK-izkQ
You're really comparing a Marine who never reached or pulled his pistol and was cooperative, with another service member who pulled a M-1 Carbine out of his truck and engaged an officer?

Good comparison.
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Old 10-11-2012, 22:43   #223
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You're really comparing a Marine who never reached or pulled his pistol and was cooperative with, another service member who pulled a M-1 Carbine out of his truck and engaged an officer?

Good comparison.
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Old 10-11-2012, 23:19   #224
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Almost 4 minutes in, and he is just doing his job. 6 min and still nothing. Seems like a great guy. Min 9, activist your very professional...

Checked the ar gave it back, for his safety asked them not to load it. Wow this cops a great additions to Law Enforcement! Even kept to his word and showed him his rifle!


PS before you say I'm hating I open carry alot.
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When will these cops ever learn? I mean, I just don't understand.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=...ture=endscreen

EDIT: No, I'm not serious. The cop did a great job.

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Old 10-11-2012, 23:40   #225
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Almost 4 minutes in, and he is just doing his job. 6 min and still nothing. Seems like a great guy. Min 9, activist your very professional...

Checked the ar gave it back, for his safety asked them not to load it. Wow this cops a great additions to Law Enforcement! Even kept to his word and showed him his rifle!


PS before you say I'm hating I open carry alot.
Ummmmm, yeaaaah. Take another look at my opening post, which you quoted. It has this line in it...


Quote:
EDIT: No, I'm not serious. The cop did a great job.
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