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Old 10-07-2012, 13:55   #61
dhgeyer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raleigh Glocker View Post
I mention this in the video right before getting beaned by Ranger T-Series 127gr +p+. As mentioned, they (and even weak ammo) worked great until that very day.
OK, so much for that theory. Not the weak ammo.

Here's another thing I noticed. At precisely two minutes and fifty seconds into the video, you show the G17 in profile close up. The assembly tensioning the extractor is in backwards. The spring loaded bearing (SLB) is plainly visible just behind the extractor with a coil of the spring showing also. Did you, just by any chance, have the pistol in this condition when you were shooting the video? The spring coil that is showing could easily bind on the front of the channel it's in, as that end is quite sharp (sharp enough to chew up the front of the extractor depressor plunger after just a few hundred rounds).

Here's a screen shot I took from your video showing what I am talking about.

General Glocking
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Old 10-07-2012, 14:06   #62
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imo new lock RSA is too strong for 9mm.
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Old 10-07-2012, 14:06   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhgeyer View Post
OK, so much for that theory. Not the weak ammo.

Here's another thing I noticed. At precisely two minutes and fifty seconds into the video, you show the G17 in profile close up. The assembly tensioning the extractor is in backwards. The spring loaded bearing (SLB) is plainly visible just behind the extractor with a coil of the spring showing also. Did you, just by any chance, have the pistol in this condition when you were shooting the video? The spring coil that is showing could easily bind on the front of the channel it's in, as that end is quite sharp (sharp enough to chew up the front of the extractor depressor plunger after just a few hundred rounds).

Here's a screen shot I took from your video showing what I am talking about.

General Glocking
Doh! Yes, I caught that later, but I didn't realize it was that obvious on the video. The gun was never fired that way.

I will add an annotation to the YouTube video.
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Old 10-07-2012, 14:14   #64
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Doh! Yes, I caught that later, but I didn't realize it was that obvious on the video. The gun was never fired that way.

I will add an annotation to the YouTube video.
Darn! That would have been such an easy answer and fix.
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Old 10-07-2012, 14:29   #65
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Originally Posted by dhgeyer View Post
Darn! That would have been such an easy answer and fix.
I don't know how long the plastic plunger would've lasted up against the extractor. If you look at the photos I linked to above, the bearing itself has some pretty good grooves being worn into it.

This slide was never detail stripped before setting up for the close-up, FWIW. I was just in a rush to get that clip finished because I was losing daylight fast, and I goobered the SLB orientation putting the slide back together for that one shot.

I honestly didn't even notice that you could make it out in the video. You certainly have an eye for detail.
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Old 10-07-2012, 15:03   #66
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Ral.G. .... do you have any old magazines? The ones before the cut outs. When you hit a run of BTF, switch the mags to the old style. See if that makes a difference.

My hypothesis is that the mags are flexing just enough to interfere with the ejecting brass.
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Old 10-07-2012, 15:18   #67
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Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo View Post
A. You're breaking your wrists when you are getting BTF. Plain as day to see.

B. lose the operator gloves as they are over the top for the pistol range

C. make shorter vids that are to the point.
If you could, just post up the video you've done demonstrating the appropriate way to shoot a Glock, specifically a "malfunctioning" one. Just a link will do. Thanks.
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Old 10-07-2012, 15:21   #68
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A. You're breaking your wrists when you are getting BTF. Plain as day to see.
I didn't see that. All I see is brass going everywhere.

So tired of the excusers.
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Old 10-07-2012, 15:22   #69
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Originally Posted by mike from philly View Post
Ral.G. .... do you have any old magazines? The ones before the cut outs. When you hit a run of BTF, switch the mags to the old style. See if that makes a difference.

My hypothesis is that the mags are flexing just enough to interfere with the ejecting brass.
Why did he have no problems for the first xxx rounds?
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Old 10-07-2012, 15:24   #70
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Originally Posted by plouffedaddy View Post
I agree. I sent my problem gun to Glock twice and twice it came back with some new parts and same problems. I sent the video in with the gun the 3rd time and magically I got a new, well functioning, gun back
How did you "send the video in"? You actually made a DVD or what?

Last edited by cowboy1964; 10-07-2012 at 15:24..
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Old 10-07-2012, 15:45   #71
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OP, I agree 100% with your assessment and motivations. I've been shooting for just over 50 years, mostly handguns and I have guns I tinker with like my 1911s but this is a Glock. If you can't trust a Glock, what can you trust?
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Old 10-07-2012, 18:38   #72
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Originally Posted by mike from philly View Post
Ral.G. .... do you have any old magazines? The ones before the cut outs. When you hit a run of BTF, switch the mags to the old style. See if that makes a difference.

My hypothesis is that the mags are flexing just enough to interfere with the ejecting brass.
I don't have any 9mm mags without the ambi cut. That said, I was using two randomly selected mags out of the 10 I own, and both started the day cycling fine, ending the day with BTF.

Interesting idea, though.
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Old 10-07-2012, 22:14   #73
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Originally Posted by Raleigh Glocker View Post
So, as long as you:
1. Don't wear gloves.
2. Stand up straight.
3. Grip a Glock with the "Glock Perfection" grip...

...you won't get BTF.

Regardless of what you think about 1-3 above, 24 years of doing it wrong has not resulted in BTF until now (with one noted exception). 900 rounds of doing it wrong has not resulted in BTF with this very gun. It also somehow doesn't happen when I shoot my Gen 2 G20, Gen 4 G23, USP40, P9C, 1911, Colt Anaconda... (OK, so it's hard to get BTF with the last one unless you try)

Something changed that day, and if it was me, then jeez, what will happen if I'm ever staring down someone else's barrel again and have to take off my gloves (if I'm wearing any), stand up straight, and get that perfect grip to avoid getting hot brass in the eye. Do you really expect that all of the LEOs out there armed with Glocks will be able to produce this grip that you're talking about in a time of need?

I will post more video of me shooting that day without BTF with that very gun on my Facebook page for those who are interested and link here once its done.

ETA: Wow! It looks like a few of us had the same reaction and were posting at the same time.
Yeah, all the people with the same reaction have BTF problems and those that are telling you what you're doing wrong don't.

Gee, I think is see a pattern.
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Old 10-08-2012, 00:16   #74
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Question, if under powered ammo was the culprit for all the problems that Glock's are having, wouldn't the issue present itself right out of the box and not 1000 rounds later when the guns are broken in? On a brand new gun everything is tight and the springs are stiff, if under powered ammo was an issue wouldn't new guns choke on it?

I have two gen 3 9mm's, a 19 and 26. I have about 600 rounds through each gun, all WWB (and a few boxes of Wolf steel). The 19 hasn't missed a beat, around the 200 round mark the 26 had two BTF out of the same mag, then no issues after that. It will be at least another 6 months until I get over the 1000 round mark, if there is a problem it would be nice to have a factory fix.
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:30   #75
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Question, if under powered ammo was the culprit for all the problems that Glock's are having, wouldn't the issue present itself right out of the box and not 1000 rounds later when the guns are broken in? On a brand new gun everything is tight and the springs are stiff, if under powered ammo was an issue wouldn't new guns choke on it? ....................
No one can argue that! Good point!
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Old 10-08-2012, 04:43   #76
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Originally Posted by FFR Spyder GT View Post
Yeah, but you're doing it wrong that's why you're getting BTF.

Ditch the gloves, stand up straight ( I've never understood the "Look at my butt, ain't it cute?" stance ) learn how to grip your Glock and the BTF problem will go away.

Thanks for posting the video because it clears shows what you are doing wrong.

Pretty simple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FFR Spyder GT View Post
Yeah, all the people with the same reaction have BTF problems and those that are telling you what you're doing wrong don't.

Gee, I think is see a pattern.
The "pattern" is that some guns have the problem, and some don't. Period. To state that wearing gloves causes erratic ejection is utterly ridiculous.
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Old 10-08-2012, 06:50   #77
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Originally Posted by dhgeyer View Post
OK, so much for that theory. Not the weak ammo.

Here's another thing I noticed. At precisely two minutes and fifty seconds into the video, you show the G17 in profile close up. The assembly tensioning the extractor is in backwards. The spring loaded bearing (SLB) is plainly visible just behind the extractor with a coil of the spring showing also. Did you, just by any chance, have the pistol in this condition when you were shooting the video? The spring coil that is showing could easily bind on the front of the channel it's in, as that end is quite sharp (sharp enough to chew up the front of the extractor depressor plunger after just a few hundred rounds).

Here's a screen shot I took from your video showing what I am talking about.

General Glocking
Wow! dhgeyer, you get, 'The Catch Of The Day Award'!

I wish I had your eyesight!

Nevertheless, that backwards EDP rod doesn't explain the rub marks on the actual head of Raleigh Glocker's EDP rod. That a backwards rod will adversely affect extraction/ejection is a given. The only question is, 'By how much?'

I've read reports from shooters who had their EDP rods in backwards. In an otherwise properly functioning Glock it didn't seem to make much difference; the Glock still worked. So the question becomes, 'What effect does this mistake have on an improperly functioning Glock pistol?' I'm going to suggest that this would only further weaken already weak ejection; BUT, at no time in the past have I ever heard of this causing a BTF problem. BTF problems with Glock pistols are a relatively recent problem.



NOTE: Raleigh Glocker, if you want to, 'get in bed' with Glock, Smyrna that's entirely your business; but, personally, I'm more careful about whom I sleep with.

Last edited by Arc Angel; 10-08-2012 at 06:52..
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:58   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo View Post
A. You're breaking your wrists when you are getting BTF. Plain as day to see.

B. lose the operator gloves as they are over the top for the pistol range

C. make shorter vids that are to the point.
A. So since he has stated and demonstrated that initially it was ejecting fine, does this mean you think he's intentionally allowing it to happen just to prove some sort of point?

B. Maybe they're comfortable for him - not relevant, doesn't affect you at all, red-herring.

C. I quite enjoy his videos, he goes into detail about the nature of the part involved and whatnot, then does several shooting strings - each one being relevant to the video in that it is testing different ammo. Testing variables to eliminate causes is part of the scientific method to try to determine the source of the issue, hence it is valid in that context.

Seems more like you're just either in a bad mood, or have something against him personally for some reason, especially with point B.

Bottom line - if you don't like his style, don't watch. If this video is too long for you, watch his other ones that fit your preferences.
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:10   #79
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Originally Posted by Arc Angel View Post
Wow! dhgeyer, you get, 'The Catch Of The Day Award'!

I wish I had your eyesight!

Nevertheless, that backwards EDP rod doesn't explain the rub marks on the actual head of Raleigh Glocker's EDP rod. That a backwards rod will adversely affect extraction/ejection is a given. The only question is, 'By how much?'

I've read reports from shooters who had their EDP rods in backwards. In an otherwise properly functioning Glock it didn't seem to make much difference; the Glock still worked. So the question becomes, 'What effect does this mistake have on an improperly functioning Glock pistol?' I'm going to suggest that this would only further weaken already weak ejection; BUT, at no time in the past have I ever heard of this causing a BTF problem. BTF problems with Glock pistols are a relatively recent problem.



NOTE: Raleigh Glocker, if you want to, 'get in bed' with Glock, Smyrna that's entirely your business; but, personally, I'm more careful about whom I sleep with.
That was an amazing catch- one other viewer also caught it and posted on m4carbine.net about it.

Like I mentioned, the G17 was never fired this way, and I just inserted stills into the Gen 4 G23 companion video I'm working on showing the G17's SLB in the correct orientation that day at the range.

I'm still at a loss here about "getting in bed" with Glock. All I am doing is seeing how they handle it so that I can share that on my YouTube channel for those who aren't apt to try to fix things themselves.

To me, this is just a tool that is easily replaced with countless others out there, including other Gen 4 G17s. Glock can't hurt me by being involved with this. If they screw it up, no big deal. I will just take over and do all the same things I'd be doing to it now without their input. That's what I would report in my follow up video, and others will be better for it. If they get it right, I can report on that.

This is not a representation of my personal motivation to understand the world around me or me trying to get cozy with Glock. I think you're reading way too much into this. Heck, if that were my plan, this video was certainly a weird way of doing it.

I do appreciate your participation in this thread.
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:21   #80
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How did you "send the video in"? You actually made a DVD or what?
When I called I asked for their manager's email address. The CS rep was very professional and provided it to me; emailed the link and shipped the gun back. Had a new gun in 8 days.
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