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Old 10-07-2012, 10:50   #41
happyguy
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Originally Posted by IvanVic View Post
So you're complaining about people of faith being generalized, and at the same time you're guilty of generalizing atheists.
I don't recall complaining about people of faith being generalized. Perhaps you could point to where I did.

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Old 10-07-2012, 10:58   #42
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Stupid? No.

Ignorant as in lacking specific knowledge of what the theories actually say or what evidence exists? Quite possibly.

Willful ignorance is also a possibility, and pretty much a certainty for somebody that holds a Young Earth outlook such as Rep. Broun. Young Earth Creationism is as scientifically untenable as the Flat Earth Society.

In order to hold a Young Earth outlook one must reject the evidence of:
  • physics/cosmology -- Big Bang and age of earth/universe
  • biology -- evolution
  • geology -- plate tectonics / rejection of a Great Flood / age of earth
  • chemistry -- radiometric dating / age of earth
  • paleontology -- fossil record / evolution
  • anthropology -- evolution
  • botany -- evolution
All while living surrounded by the comforts and conveniences that modern science provides.

-ArtificialGrape
Thanks

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Happyguy
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Old 10-07-2012, 11:25   #43
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Just thought I'd mention that the OP posted this yesterday and hasn't returned. Kind of a hit and run trolling if you ask me.

And

It would seem that the issue has become a topic for another forum. I mean the political implications that the OP threw out on the water are of academic interest at least, the details of an individuals personal beliefs, not so much.
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Old 10-07-2012, 13:41   #44
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Originally Posted by JBnTX View Post
What if the person who wrote that account was ignorant (as in lack of knowledge), and explained it the best way he knew how?

In communications, the sender is responsible for the understanding of the message, not the receiver. The author of the creation story failed to communicate it clearly to you.

God did NOT create the Earth in seven days. What he created in seven days was the present surface of the Earth.

The very first sentence of the Bible contains Billions of years and accounts for the creation of heaven and Earth.

God has re-worked the surface of the Earth countless times since the Earth was created billions of years ago.
reworked the surface countless times



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Old 10-07-2012, 13:49   #45
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How do people like this get elected and re-elected? More importantly, how does someone that believes the Earth is only 9,000 years old get placed on the house committee for Science, Space, and Technology? It seems like that committee assignment directly contradicts who this man is.
Have you ever ventured into the Religious Forum on Glocktalk?
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Old 10-07-2012, 13:50   #46
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There has been a very long debate over in GTRI about how little we really know about the origins of the universe. In fact, the big bang may not have been a bang at all, there are some really interesting ideas that maybe it was a BIG CHILL instead.
I'm not sure what to call it, but half the thread participants presenting the current state of scientific knowledge, and half proclaiming their personal state of ignorance and incredulity is not a "debate."

Regarding the big bang -- the cosmological solutions to general relativity which fit observational data simply look like a "big bang" over the scale of billions of years. That has not changed. The "big chill" business you refer to is one potential quantum theory of gravity that would describe unimaginably tiny quantum corrections to the big picture given by general relativity. It is not an idea in competition with the basic, large-scale features of big bang cosmology, which become better and better established every year, with each new experiment.
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Old 10-08-2012, 05:34   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
I'm not sure what to call it, but half the thread participants presenting the current state of scientific knowledge, and half proclaiming their personal state of ignorance and incredulity is not a "debate."

Regarding the big bang -- the cosmological solutions to general relativity which fit observational data simply look like a "big bang" over the scale of billions of years. That has not changed. The "big chill" business you refer to is one potential quantum theory of gravity that would describe unimaginably tiny quantum corrections to the big picture given by general relativity. It is not an idea in competition with the basic, large-scale features of big bang cosmology, which become better and better established every year, with each new experiment.
A lot of those proclaiming knowledge, don't really know. Most have not done the research themselves and are blindly trusting what they have been told, and while science has concluded the universe is expanding, and it has postulated that it is expanding at different speeds, doesn't mean a bang caused the expansion. I'd describe the discussion as a few people willing to point out missing pieces of the puzzle and the limits of human knowledge, and those that don't know enough to know what they don't know.

Just because one explanaition fits, doesn't make it so. We, as a species, continue to learn. We've got a long way to go to come close to saying we've got it all figured out. I guess the old saying is true about the more you know, the more you realize what you still have to learn.
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Last edited by Cavalry Doc; 10-08-2012 at 05:37..
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Old 10-08-2012, 06:15   #48
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Big Bang Theory.

Theory of Evolution.

Both still theories, right?
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Old 10-08-2012, 06:55   #49
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Originally Posted by Fed Five Oh View Post
Big Bang Theory.

Theory of Evolution.

Both still theories, right?
All that you've done here is to boast that you don't understand how the word theory is used among scientists.

Perhaps this will help.


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Old 10-08-2012, 07:11   #50
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Here is a a pretty good summary of some of the evidence supporting the big bang theory (complete with pretty pictures) for anybody actually interested.

-ArtificialGrape
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:44   #51
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Originally Posted by ArtificialGrape View Post
All that you've done here is to boast that you don't understand how the word theory is used among scientists.]
Would this be the same scientists that espouse man made global warming?

Sorry, but I know the difference between a theory and a law. Spin it any way you want. You believe in a theory.

In other words, you believe in an assumption. You believe in conjecture.

Tell me again how you are so much more intelligent than Christians of Jews?
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:56   #52
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Niether the left nor right has a monopoly on congress people I find undesirable and that say things that I beleive display an astounding ignorance. However, when politicians like Broun and Akin say stuff that is so far afield from logic, it ends up being the brush that libs (and the MSM) paint all conservatives and gun owners with. That is not a good thing.
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:21   #53
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Sorry, but I know the difference between a theory and a law. Spin it any way you want. You believe in a theory.

In other words, you believe in an assumption. You believe in conjecture.
Nope, it's still clear that you don't understand the words as used in the field of science. When used in science, the term "theory" has nothing to do with conjecture. Do you also have objections to germ theory, cell theory, quantum theory, or the theory of gravity?

Even when supported by a metric arse load of evidence, theories are always open to falsification. Even laws remain open to falsification.

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Tell me again how you are so much more intelligent than Christians of Jews?
Tell you again? Show me anywhere that I've ever done that, or save your time and admit that you're just putting inflammatory words in my mouth.

cheers,
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:37   #54
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Originally Posted by Fed Five Oh View Post
Would this be the same scientists that espouse man made global warming?

Sorry, but I know the difference between a theory and a law. Spin it any way you want. You believe in a theory.

In other words, you believe in an assumption. You believe in conjecture.

Tell me again how you are so much more intelligent than Christians of Jews?
Remember back when an atom was the smallest unit of matter until someone split one open and all this crap started flying out?

Yeah, so forgive me too if I don't take what scientists say as, er...."gospel."
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:17   #55
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Remember back when an atom was the smallest unit of matter until someone split one open and all this crap started flying out?
Sure, and continents were "fixed" before plate tectonics, and Newtonian Gravity explained everything about gravity before General Relativity, and ...

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Originally Posted by Goaltender66 View Post
Yeah, so forgive me too if I don't take what scientists say as, er...."gospel."
However, science being self-correcting is one of its great strengths, not a weakness.

Scientists are pretty quick to agree that we don't know everything. I don't think you'll find many matching the arrogance of Lord Kelvin when over 100 years ago he said, "There is nothing new to be discovered in physics now, All that remains is more and more precise measurement."

cheers,
-ArtificialGrape

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Old 10-08-2012, 10:37   #56
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How do people like this get elected and re-elected? More importantly, how does someone that believes the Earth is only 9,000 years old get placed on the house committee for Science, Space, and Technology? It seems like that committee assignment directly contradicts who this man is.

You certainly seem to be a lot more comfortable with Obama's Islamic faith.
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:45   #57
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Here is a a pretty good summary of some of the evidence supporting the big bang theory (complete with pretty pictures) for anybody actually interested.

-ArtificialGrape
And here is the person who first postulated the Big Bang theory:

Political Issues
Georges Lemaître, (1894-1966), Belgian cosmologist, Catholic priest, and father of the Big Bang theory.

Wait, what??? A Catholic priest who believed in Jesus fairy tales gave us what it became the most accepted theory of the Universe creation?
So science and religion are not mutually exclusive and people of faith are not simple-minded gullible idiots?

I can hear atheists head explode.


I can hear

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Old 10-08-2012, 10:54   #58
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How do people like this get elected and re-elected? More importantly, how does someone that believes the Earth is only 9,000 years old get placed on the house committee for Science, Space, and Technology? It seems like that committee assignment directly contradicts who this man is.
A better question. How did someone with absolutely zero qualifications get elected as President of the United States?

Arguably, the most important job in the world. And, nothing. Nada. Zip. No experience, nothing.

Just reads a good speech. But, enough people out there thought it sounded like a good idea.

So we know how you feel.
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:24   #59
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Originally Posted by Zombie Surgeon View Post
And here is the person who first postulated the Big Bang theory:

Political Issues
Georges Lemaître, (1894-1966), Belgian cosmologist, Catholic priest, and father of the Big Bang theory.

Wait, what??? A Catholic priest who believed in Jesus fairy tales gave us what it became the most accepted theory of the Universe creation?
So science and religion are not mutually exclusive and people of faith are not simple-minded gullible idiots?

I can hear atheists head explode.


I can hear
I'm well aware of Lemaitre, so no exploding head here. I don't argue that science and religion are mutually exclusive (see my earlier post on the Clergy Letter Project), and I've never suggested that theists are idiots.

The critical distinction with Lemaitre is that his beliefs did not require him to close a blind eye, or otherwise abuse or reject science in order to maintain his faith. The problem comes when people allow religious dogma to cause them to reject and abuse science that they perceive as a threat to their faith.

-ArtificialGrape
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Old 10-08-2012, 13:09   #60
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Just thought I'd mention that the OP posted this yesterday and hasn't returned. Kind of a hit and run trolling if you ask me.

And

It would seem that the issue has become a topic for another forum. I mean the political implications that the OP threw out on the water are of academic interest at least, the details of an individuals personal beliefs, not so much.
Its the weekend, I shouldn't have to apologize for going out and living a little life. We can't all put up 30 or 40 posts a day.

and

It's a very political issue because this man sits on a committee that makes the policy for agencies like NASA, NSF, NOAA, and the USGS. Again, I don't care that he is a christian; but young earth creationism requires it's believers to completely ignore the scientific method. Do you not think that this could have some sort of negative impact over the scientific agencies that our government maintains?
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