Glock Talk
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09-20-2012, 08:13
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#1
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Slacked jawed
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 11,213
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Best SD 9mm short barrel round
I seem to be carrying pocket guns more and more, and right now I have Ruger LC9 and I will be getting a Kahr CM9 in the near future.
That said anyone know what self defense round is good out of a short 3" barreled 9mm. I like to avoid +p+ and +p because of the wear and tear on those lightweight guns.
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09-20-2012, 09:16
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#2
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CLM Number 211
IAFF Local 4766
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: SW / West Central Illinois
Posts: 4,289
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We are living in the good old days so far as the number and type defensive ammo choices available.
The big three all have suitable options for the pocket pistol.Starting with the first from Winchester the T-Series offers a large window of velocities that it will work under.In other words the 147gr offering will work in your pistols. So will the 124+P, you will not really be losing anything except velocity faster compared to the 147. For the purest the design does not have the color but still retains the sharp talons made famous by the Black Talon.
Federal HST again suitable in all bullet weights. Originally designed to replace their Hi Shock ammo but morphed into the restricted sale Tactical Line descendant of Eldorado's Star Fire that is pretty tough and offers robust expansion.
Speer Gold Dot SB the last of the big three to offer something for the pocket pistol. It retains everything good about the regular GB only tuned to work from SB pistols.
If you try several of these you guns will actually decide what is best for them.
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Last edited by hotpig; 10-01-2012 at 11:06..
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09-20-2012, 10:46
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Carolina
Posts: 2,058
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Here's some chrono data from my Shield:
Hornady 147gr TAP: average fps-910. ft/lbs energy-270
Federal 124gr HST: average fps-1029. ft/lbs energy-291
Federal 124gr HST +p: average fps-1070. ft/lbs energy-320
Winchester 115gr Ranger: average fps 1020. ft/lbs energy-266
I highly recommend the above poster's website for buying defensive ammo (well all ammo really...). Good prices and service.
Last edited by plouffedaddy; 09-20-2012 at 10:49..
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09-20-2012, 12:32
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpig
The big three all have suitable options for the pocket pistol.Starting with the first from Winchester the T-Series offers a large window of velocities that it will work under.In other words the 147gr offering will work in your pistols.
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hotpig,
Would you happen to know what the lower velocity limit for expansion in the RA9T is?
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09-20-2012, 12:50
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#5
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Supreme Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo Bagins
I seem to be carrying pocket guns more and more, and right now I have Ruger LC9 and I will be getting a Kahr CM9 in the near future.
That said anyone know what self defense round is good out of a short 3" barreled 9mm. I like to avoid +p+ and +p because of the wear and tear on those lightweight guns.
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Unless you plan on using it for practice ammo, an occasional diet of +P isn't going to cause any excessive wear and tear on either of those pistols. A few boxes to test reliability, and then a few more rounds downrange a few times a year to burn through old carry ammo so it can be replaced with fresh won't hurt a thing.
I've been using +P like that in my PM9 for years.
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Last edited by Kalmah; 09-20-2012 at 12:51..
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09-20-2012, 13:06
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 2,215
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I would go w/ Speer short barrel Gold Dot 124+p, if you are adverse to that, try the 147 HST(if you can find it).
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09-20-2012, 15:27
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#7
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CLM Number 211
IAFF Local 4766
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: SW / West Central Illinois
Posts: 4,289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M 7
hotpig,
Would you happen to know what the lower velocity limit for expansion in the RA9T is?
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Officially 890fps
__________________
Keep your guns stashed and your powder dry.
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09-20-2012, 18:59
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 13,316
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Try the CorBon ammo in 9mm +p. Their 115gr load does 1200 FPS in the LC9.
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Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
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09-20-2012, 19:20
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#9
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Malcontent
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 10,971
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Here is some LC9 chrono data. I use the 147 Ranger T series since it runs in the design velocity and I know it will penetrate.
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1344889
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Last edited by WiskyT; 09-20-2012 at 19:20..
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09-20-2012, 20:53
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpig
Officially 890fps
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Thanks! 
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09-27-2012, 20:31
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 13,316
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My Carry load
pushes a 115gr JHP bullet at 1400 FPS out of my G17. 
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Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
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09-30-2012, 15:20
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 3,097
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster
pushes a 115gr JHP bullet at 1400 FPS out of my G17. |
What anything does out of a G17 is completely irrelevant to this thread.
OP: I ended up with 147gr HST for my P938. Being that it will open at the lower velocities with good penetration sealed it for me.
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10-01-2012, 09:51
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 13,316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boomhower
What anything does out of a G17 is completely irrelevant to this thread.
OP: I ended up with 147gr HST for my P938. Being that it will open at the lower velocities with good penetration sealed it for me.
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I just offered it as a reference point. It has a 4.5-inch barrel - not the longest or the shortest barrel.
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Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
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10-01-2012, 18:10
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#14
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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NE of Atlanta
Posts: 29,282
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I really like 124gr +P Speer Gold Dots for my Glock 26. Currently it is loaded with RA9TA and I have also carried RA9T, and Federal HST. Pick one.
I mostly prefer the Gold Dots though
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10-01-2012, 18:16
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 13,316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp
I really like 124gr +P Speer Gold Dots for my Glock 26. Currently it is loaded with RA9TA and I have also carried RA9T, and Federal HST. Pick one.
I mostly prefer the Gold Dots though
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I never saw a difference between the 115gr and 124gr loads. I mean, it us only a nine-grain difference - 8%. Now if the debate was between 115gr and 147gr, then there would be grounds for debate - a 32gr difference is far bigger than 9gr.
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10-01-2012, 19:57
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#16
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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NE of Atlanta
Posts: 29,282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster
I never saw a difference between the 115gr and 124gr loads.
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What did you do with them for the comparison?
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Last edited by Warp; 10-01-2012 at 19:57..
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10-01-2012, 20:33
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: CG wisconsin
Posts: 335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp
What did you do with them for the comparison?
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^^he used mathematics... LoLz
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10-02-2012, 10:48
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 13,316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp
What did you do with them for the comparison?
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I don't understand your question. I was just saying that there is not much difference between the 115gr and 124gr JHPs - only 9 grains. The velocity difference is likely less than 100 FPS.
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Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
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10-02-2012, 11:45
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 751
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Bilbo Bagins,
Lots of good choices mentioned here and all would certainly provide you with more than adequate self protection out of a small(er) pistol.
I carry a 9mm G26 (3.43" barrel) just a bit larger than the ones you mentioned. I have been and still do carry the Hornady 124g XTP HP loads. I have clocked these at 1,058.2 fps, nice round easy to control and over the past few years have practiced enough with this round that I am familiar with it and comfortable carrying it for my EDC round.
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Last edited by Kentguy; 10-02-2012 at 11:47..
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10-02-2012, 15:07
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#20
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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NE of Atlanta
Posts: 29,282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster
I don't understand your question. I was just saying that there is not much difference between the 115gr and 124gr JHPs - only 9 grains. The velocity difference is likely less than 100 FPS.
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Terminal performance isn't measured in grains.
Also, we are talking "short barrels" here. 4.5" barrels need not apply.
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Last edited by Warp; 10-02-2012 at 15:07..
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10-02-2012, 16:22
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#21
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 13,316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp
Terminal performance isn't measured in grains.
Also, we are talking "short barrels" here. 4.5" barrels need not apply.
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Bullet weight certainly does matter. 1/2mass x velocity squared is the formula for kinetic energy. The bullet weight in grains times the velocity equals the power factor.
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Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
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10-02-2012, 16:26
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#22
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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NE of Atlanta
Posts: 29,282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster
Bullet weight certainly does matter. 1/2mass x velocity squared is the formula for kinetic energy. The bullet weight in grains times the velocity equals the power factor.
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Terminal performance is not measured in any of those terms.
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Last edited by Warp; 10-02-2012 at 16:27..
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10-02-2012, 16:30
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#23
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 13,316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp
Terminal performance is not measured in any of those terms.
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Indeed. I was just offering established formulas for measuring terminal performance. Now anyone can see that bullet weight is a definite factor in determining bullet terminal performance.
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Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
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10-02-2012, 16:35
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#24
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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NE of Atlanta
Posts: 29,282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster
Indeed. I was just offering established formulas for measuring terminal performance. Now anyone can see that bullet weight is a definite factor in determining bullet terminal performance.
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In that case you failed miserably.
Nothing you offered is a measure of terminal performance.
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The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
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Last edited by Warp; 10-02-2012 at 16:35..
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10-02-2012, 16:53
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Hartford, Vermont
Posts: 13,316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp
In that case you failed miserably.
Nothing you offered is a measure of terminal performance.
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Why must you be so rude? I thought that we were all friends here. Now I fail to see how bullet weight is not a consideration in terminal perforamnce. 
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Gun Ownership Offers Freedom in Many Dimensions
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