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Old 10-06-2012, 13:23   #51
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Originally Posted by QNman View Post
I would like to add the following:

My forefathers were native Americans (well, some of them anyway). The land WAS taken, in any sense or description of the word.

However, ONLY in modern America is this somehow considered a "crime" ir some other immoral behavior. For thousands of years, land is taken by conquering forces and claimed as their own. It's been that was since the beginning of time. I've never read once where the Romans were bashing their own for "stealing" land from the Germanians; it was and remains the way life is. The strong survive, thrive, and write the history books. Boo hoo.

ONLY in modern America, with our generations of schooling insisting that we should abhor our own existence for the alleged "sins" of our founding fathers, can what occurred be considered anything other than what it was - a stronger force taking the land from a weaker one and claiming it as their own.

Too, ONLY in modern America have you seen a modern government attempt in many ways to rectify the perceived wrongs, rebuild the land it conquered, and hand it back over after the fact. And oddly, the more we do, the more we get accused of being imperialists.

Good points.

Where I am sitting, right now, was the sight of some of the most brutal fighting between White and Indians that ever occurred in the history of this Country, but I will bet not one in a thousand members of this forum ever heard of it. It happened befor the telegraph, before the transcontinental railroad, "way out west beyond civilization" some of it did, in very distorted reports, make it back to the east coast but by in large most here would be surprised to know that within a couple miles of my home is a mass grave for a large percentage of the white citizens of the former town, killed in one night, or that a couple of miles the other direction is a canyon where 13 of the indians captured a month later, were take while tied up and executed and their bodies dumped in the canyon.

Our history is rife with conflict, my area particularly, but interstingly the descendants of both sides live side by side today with very little issue. If you ever come through my area, stop and read the "Historical Markers" about that era along the highway. I was asked to re write the text on them
several years ago because both groups of historical representatives agreed that I would do the "fairest" job.

The point I am trying to make is that many people get along fine with the past, it is generally someone trying to get something out of it in the present that throws the bollocks on things.
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Old 10-06-2012, 14:00   #52
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Originally Posted by Beware Owner View Post
This territory didn't belong to the colonists, it wasn't given to them...

REally? Where did they apply for their visas?
History is full of larger, stronger cultures seizing land from smaller, weaker cultures. The English, French, and Spanish came to North America and bought and/or fought their way into ownership of various regions. They then sent colonists to establish their culture in place of the native culture. The colonists were legal immigrants, establishing new states under the laws of their home countries.

Was it "nice", or "fair"? No. Was it legal? Yes. Several nations defeated lesser nations, therefore the laws of the victor nations rule.

What we face now are individuals from Central and South American countries deliberately crossing into the United States against our laws. They aren't soldiers conducting military operations to seize ground, nor are they diplomats offering to buy land. They are criminals here in violation of American law, and they need to go.
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Old 10-06-2012, 19:18   #53
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I thought liberals had stopped using the term illegal alien because they said it was racist?

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