GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-05-2012, 19:19   #21
Cavalry Doc
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 42,688


Quote:
Originally Posted by rgregoryb View Post
conquerors is more like it, and the winners write the history...........
So, the choice is to support the defenders of the Alamo, or the la Raza crowd.

Fork 'em sideways.

Quote:
First, create an "I used to be an illegal alien" ID card that is verifiable over the internet. Make it a felony to assist an unidentified illegal in obtaining fraudulent documentation, punishable by $5000 and 5 years in jail per count.

Then allow 1 year for all illegals to get theirs. While educating everyone on what is to come.

After 1 year, it is a misdemeanor, punishable by 1 year in jail and $1000, to be, or to hire an illegal without the ID card.

After 18 months, it's a felony, punishable by 5 years in jail, or $50,000 fine for being an illegal, or hiring one without the ID card. Offer a $1000 dollar reward for information leading to the arrest of any duly identified illegals. $1500 per Illegal captured if the finder happens to be otherwise unemployed (putting Americans back to work) We have to watch spending, so cap it at say..... $100,000 per year per household.

After 2 years, all social services (food stamps, housing, public education etc) stop for all illegals & their non US citizen family members without the ID card. Schools found to have illegal aliens enrolled are fined $500 for each week that an illegal alien attended, per student. All Illegals found, regardless of how, without the ID card are deported.

We then get to decide how many we want to allow to stay, and how many should go. We also get to decide, on whatever criteria we'd like, who stays and who goes. I'm for automatically deporting everyone with more than two arrests for non-immigration misdemeanor offenses. Any convictions of any felony should get them an automatic ticket home.

We don't want to break up any families, so anchor babies must be considered. If it is decided that one or both parents must be deported, then the parents go, period, end of discussion on that point. The child will be allowed to go with his/her parents, or they can stay in the USA at the parents expense if suitable supervision can be arranged.

Since we will finally have access to demographics on this hidden culture, we can decide how much we should give them in the form of social services. How many non-working family members per worker will be allowed. What the illegal immigrant minimum wage should be. How much they will pay in taxes & If there should be limits on their stay.



There will be crooks among them, there will also be high quality people. We should consider a path to permanent resident alien (non-voting) status for the top performers based on whatever criteria we choose.



If you remove the financial benefits on both the supply and demand sides of the equation, and positively ID all of them, you can start to manage the population.
Cavalry Doc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 19:25   #22
QNman
resU deretsigeR
 
QNman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 10,532
Quote:
Originally Posted by LASTRESORT20 View Post
And then our Forefathers made laws for "their" new home.
Speak for yourself. My forefathers were here before the Europeans.
__________________
"I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration, somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

TERM LIMITS NOW!!!
QNman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 19:27   #23
QNman
resU deretsigeR
 
QNman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 10,532
Quote:
Originally Posted by countrygun View Post
Do you understand the concept of "Legal"?


There wasn't an existing law in North America that made migration "Illegal" hence the could not have been doing anything illegal.
Taking my tongue out of my cheek (and may my forefathers forgive me), this really is the salient point. The land was not wholly owned by native Americans, and those that arrived did so without it being either legal or illegal.
__________________
"I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration, somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

TERM LIMITS NOW!!!
QNman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 19:30   #24
Cavalry Doc
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 42,688


Quote:
Originally Posted by QNman View Post
Taking my tongue out of my cheek (and may my forefathers forgive me), this really is the salient point. The land was not wholly owned by native Americans, and those that arrived did so without it being either legal or illegal.
To the victors go the spoils. You don't have to like it, but that is simply the way it is.

All of that happened decades before the birth of my great grandfather. I can't fix that and have no feeling of responsibility for it. This land is ours today. Deal with it.
Cavalry Doc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 19:32   #25
JFrame
Senior Member
 
JFrame's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Mid-Atlantic, US of A
Posts: 33,225
Let's talk about the Muslims returning the Middle East and Near Asia to the Babylonians, Assyrians, Sumerians, etc.


.
__________________
"When newspapers are controlled, it's amazing how ignorant and immune from pressure the government can be." -- Amartya Sen

--
JFrame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 19:33   #26
countrygun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 17,068
Quote:
Originally Posted by QNman View Post
Taking my tongue out of my cheek (and may my forefathers forgive me), this really is the salient point. The land was not wholly owned by native Americans, and those that arrived did so without it being either legal or illegal.
Sometimes it is difficult to not have a certain reaction on behalf of my ancestors, but, the truth is for my family, once they learned about the White man's "Sears and Roebuck" catalog, and the fact that it had pictures AND you could use it as a new thing called "Toilet paper" it was all over, as they rushed towards oil lamps and indoor plumbing.
countrygun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 19:37   #27
QNman
resU deretsigeR
 
QNman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 10,532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
To the victors go the spoils. You don't have to like it, but that is simply the way it is.

All of that happened decades before the birth of my great grandfather. I can't fix that and have no feeling of responsibility for it. This land is ours today. Deal with it.
Read my post again, my friend. I am an American first and foremost. My forefathers were what they were, just as yours were. I'm proud of it, but I don't pretend anyone owes me anything because of it.
__________________
"I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration, somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

TERM LIMITS NOW!!!
QNman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 19:38   #28
QNman
resU deretsigeR
 
QNman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 10,532
Quote:
Originally Posted by countrygun View Post
Sometimes it is difficult to not have a certain reaction on behalf of my ancestors, but, the truth is for my family, once they learned about the White man's "Sears and Roebuck" catalog, and the fact that it had pictures AND you could use it as a new thing called "Toilet paper" it was all over, as they rushed towards oil lamps and indoor plumbing.


I hear you, brother.
__________________
"I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration, somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

TERM LIMITS NOW!!!
QNman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 19:44   #29
rgregoryb
Sapere aude
 
rgregoryb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Republic of Alabama
Posts: 13,061


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
So, the choice is to support the defenders of the Alamo, or the la Raza crowd.

Fork 'em sideways.
I'm sayin we won it fair and square..............
__________________
"I don't know why we are here, but I'm pretty sure that it is not in order to enjoy ourselves."
Ludwig Wittgenstein

"demography is destiny"
rgregoryb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 19:46   #30
QNman
resU deretsigeR
 
QNman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 10,532
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgregoryb View Post
I'm sayin we won it fair and square..............
Yeah, Doc seems defensive tonight. Must have had to talk to (e.g. listen to) a Democratic patient today.

()
__________________
"I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration, somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

TERM LIMITS NOW!!!

Last edited by QNman; 10-05-2012 at 19:46..
QNman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 19:57   #31
Cavalry Doc
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 42,688


Quote:
Originally Posted by QNman View Post
Read my post again, my friend. I am an American first and foremost. My forefathers were what they were, just as yours were. I'm proud of it, but I don't pretend anyone owes me anything because of it.
Don't worry, we are cool.
Cavalry Doc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 19:58   #32
Cavalry Doc
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 42,688


Quote:
Originally Posted by QNman View Post
Yeah, Doc seems defensive tonight. Must have had to talk to (e.g. listen to) a Democratic patient today.

()
More than one brother.
Cavalry Doc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 20:02   #33
Cavalry Doc
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 42,688


Quote:
Originally Posted by rgregoryb View Post
I'm sayin we won it fair and square..............
Yup. What happened happened. Long before my great grandfather came onto the scene. No Guilt here.
Cavalry Doc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 20:02   #34
engineer151515
_______________
 
engineer151515's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 21,255


Quote:
Originally Posted by countrygun View Post
Do you understand the concept of "Legal"?


There wasn't an existing law in North America that made migration "Illegal" hence the could not have been doing anything illegal.
Obviously he does not.

At best, he confuses morality with legality. A common mistake.
__________________
"...dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal." - Abraham Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
engineer151515 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 20:06   #35
countrygun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 17,068
Quote:
Originally Posted by engineer151515 View Post
Obviously he does not.

At best, he confuses morality with legality. A common mistake.
Well it's better than getting into a debate with someone who says "Don't try to legislate morality" and won't admit that most of man's basic laws are legislated morality.
countrygun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 20:12   #36
QNman
resU deretsigeR
 
QNman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 10,532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Don't worry, we are cool.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
More than one brother.
__________________
"I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration, somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

TERM LIMITS NOW!!!
QNman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 21:18   #37
QNman
resU deretsigeR
 
QNman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 10,532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalry Doc View Post
Don't worry, we are cool.
I saw a car today in Illinois. It made me thing of you. It had a Texas plate, and a sticker that said "Combat Medic".
__________________
"I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration, somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

TERM LIMITS NOW!!!
QNman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 22:00   #38
janice6
Platinum Membership
NRA
 
janice6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: minnesota
Posts: 20,649


I’m tired of hearing how this country was taken from the original “owners”.

The following is not a Politically Correct statement. It is, however, the real world. If you are offended, tell someone else. This is how our wonderful world works.

Whether you like it or not, the historical reality is that we only occupy what we can keep others from taking away from us.

This country was never taken from the original owners. No one owns a country. They occupy it until someone stronger takes it from them. If you don’t think so, consider disbanding the military and see how long this government/country lasts. You might even consider permitting unlimited immigration, and see how the results are just the same as losing a war of occupation.

This country was taken from the previous occupiers. Make no mistake. They had no central organized government, were nomadic, relatively sparse in numbers, with limited offensive/defensive capabilities. Thus they lost it due to weakness.

This country was taken, for the most part, by a war of occupation. The war was fought by an occupying force, in numbers that overwhelmed the original inhabitants. These invaders had superior numbers and force. There was no question they “Won”this country by occupation. In the concept of the times, “To the victor belong the spoils”.

We have always been in the same position as the original occupiers, in that, if others think they have superior numbers and force, they will certainly try to take the country away from us.

They are welcome to try. We have developed this country sociologically and technologically and now consider it ours, and we will keep it. We will make the cost of trying to take it away from us as high as humanly possible. We will use all the means at our disposal to keep it.

If anyone thinks we can be taken over, go ahead and try. It has always been the same all throughout history, if you can take it, it’s yours - but be sure you don’t want to lose what you already have.

If you feel the need to “debate this”, find someone else to talk to.
__________________
janice6

"Peace is that brief, glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". Anonymous

Earp: Not everyone who knows you hates you.
DOC: I know it ain't always easy bein' my friend....but I'll BE THERE when you need me.
janice6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2012, 01:16   #39
kirgi08
Silver Membership
Watcher.
 
kirgi08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Acme proving grounds.
Posts: 29,020
Blog Entries: 1


Tic-toc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBnTX View Post
Their forefathers were legal immigrants, not illegal immigrants.
Too many people get the terms mixed.

Maybe,see below.

This country was built by legal immigrants.
All the illegal immigrants have ever done is take from this country and never give anything back.
No it wasn't,It was built by folk that wanted a new start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JFrame View Post
Well, this is certainly moral relativism taken to a ridiculous extreme...


.
No my friend it's not,this thread is trying ta apply laws from England ta the "Founding" of this land.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beware Owner View Post
This territory didn't belong to the colonists, it wasn't given to them...



Really? Where did they apply for their visas?
It wasn't,it was considered ta be what you can hold is yours.From the original settlement and beyond.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman11 View Post
BINGO! You got it right. The same goes for Texas.
Disagree,Texas reclaimed from the Spaniards when?.The colonists started fighting when?.

Quote:
Originally Posted by countrygun View Post
Do you understand the concept of "Legal"?


There wasn't an existing law in North America that made migration "Illegal" hence the could not have been doing anything illegal.
Disagree my friend,tribal law existed well before the "written" law did.It was "tribe" wide yet it existed.Most tribes had the same basic code/s.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Beware Owner View Post
You don't need a law to tell someone what belongs to them...
Ayep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBnTX View Post
Visas were not required. The original immigrants broke no laws when they came to America.

Disagree,they left,will say ""England",they left ta avoid religious persecution,the persecution part was part taxes AND choice of faith.So they left for personal freedom both monetary and religious.

Unlike the current crop of illegal trespassers who do break the law when they enter this country illegally.

There's a big difference.

..
Not really,those founders were motivated by principles,the Illegals are here following the American dream.What's the difference?,the costs.Our founders set up the system,folk have been allowed ta manipulate it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Beware Owner View Post
They took over something that didn't belong to them, even if there was no written law, it's the same basic principle.
It's called "squatters",that was the system.No one claimed,it's yours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by countrygun View Post
Ignorance is not your friend.

The Natives at the time did not have a concept of "possesion" as we know it. Their "territory" was limited to what they were standing on basically. Personal possesions were also shared.

Quit looking at history through the glasses of today's values/morals/concepts.
They did have a "concept" of range/Hunting grounds.CG,They knew their limits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul7 View Post
Where was the Indian's titles to the land? They were constantly fighting each other for possession, and in the white man ran into a superior opponent. If you disagree, perhaps you could give your house lot back to the Indians.
White men killed more Natives by infection than rifle.As I've said above,I disagree with most of the assumptions I've read.'08.
__________________
I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6

If you look like food,You will be eaten.

Rip Chad.You will be missed.

Last edited by kirgi08; 10-06-2012 at 01:21..
kirgi08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2012, 05:04   #40
series1811
CLM Number
Enforcerator.
 
series1811's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Retired, but not expired.
Posts: 14,312
Quote:
Originally Posted by JFrame View Post
Well, this is certainly moral relativism taken to a ridiculous extreme...


.

Or, really, legal relativism. I can't believe it didn't read, "our forefathers were undocumented citizens/voters, too".
__________________
I sure miss the country I grew up in.

Last edited by series1811; 10-06-2012 at 05:05..
series1811 is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 20:39.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,320
382 Members
938 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31