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Old 06-14-2012, 05:46   #1
GasTurbine
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Why are Glocks always called DAO guns?

I know they categorize it that way because of it longer pull, but the fact is, (besides going thru all the safeties) it preforms just one action...releasing the striker, thus, technically making it an SA gun.

I know that Armslist has "Striker fired" added to their "Action types"...I hope this catches on.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:57   #2
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The designation has nothing to do with the length of the trigger pull. Since there is no hammer to cock or decock, it is designated DAO.

I just love the sound effects on some TV shows when you hear someone cocking a Glock.

Think in terms of revolvers:

Single Action
SA/DA
DAO
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:58   #3
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Because they are! Drawing the trigger to the rear completes the setting of the striker spring before it releases the striker.

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Old 06-14-2012, 06:02   #4
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The striker is only preloaded in normal conditions. The trigger pull brings it back the rest of the way and the trigger spring assists with that pull. If there were no trigger spring it would feel more like a revolver.

Do I have that right guys?
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:07   #5
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To me one of the reasons may be because every time the trigger is pulled and the gun fires the trigger pull is the same as opposed to a revolver fired double and then single action or the first and subsequent shots on a traditional double action.
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:07   #6
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I feel you guys, but typically (in "normal" terms) when we say "Double Action" its referring to the (first action) setting of the hammer spring. The second action is releasing of said spring. Since striker fired pistol already have the sticker pin loaded in normal conditions, that should make it a single action...at lease in my eyes. Oh well.
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:12   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GasTurbine View Post
I feel you guys, but typically (in "normal" terms) when we say "Double Action" its referring to the (first action) setting of the hammer spring. The second action is releasing of said spring. Since striker fired pistol already have the sticker pin loaded in normal conditions, that should make it a single action...at lease in my eyes. Oh well.
Yeah, I just call them "striker fired." That's all you really need to know about the action and how it compares to other pistols.
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:19   #8
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The "Safe" action is different than a normal double action trigger or a normal single action trigger.
The reason that IDPA classifies it in the same category as a Beretta 92 which is a true double action first shot gun is that the striker isn't fully to the rear like others have mentioned. I find this animation really lets you see why IDPA classifies it that way:

Pay particular attention to the striker during the trigger pull and you will see the "Why" to your question.
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:22   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GasTurbine View Post
I feel you guys, but typically (in "normal" terms) when we say "Double Action" its referring to the (first action) setting of the hammer spring. The second action is releasing of said spring. Since striker fired pistol already have the sticker pin loaded in normal conditions, that should make it a single action...at lease in my eyes. Oh well.
A single action requires no further setting of the hammer. The trigger strictly releases it. The striker in a Glock still has to be pulled back the rest of the way and then released. If a Glock was SA we would have a much sweeter trigger pull but would then need an external safety.
That would make it "not" a Glock.

Sent via mental telepathy.
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Old 06-14-2012, 09:45   #10
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Glock doesn't call their action DAO, but rather "Safe Action". IDPA uses the same terminology. There's a difference.
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Old 06-14-2012, 09:48   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GasTurbine View Post
I feel you guys, but typically (in "normal" terms) when we say "Double Action" its referring to the (first action) setting of the hammer spring. The second action is releasing of said spring. Since striker fired pistol already have the sticker pin loaded in normal conditions, that should make it a single action...at lease in my eyes. Oh well.
Watch the video above....you'll see why you're wrong.

There are TWO actions happening from the pulling of a GLOCK trigger, not one.

Still, they're striker fired, not DOA.
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Old 06-14-2012, 09:58   #12
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FWIW, In Glock's own Armorer Manual Technical Specifications and in their Armorer Course, each pistol is described as Action: Safe Action (constant double action mode).
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Old 06-14-2012, 10:01   #13
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I always think of a true double action having second strike capability. Anything less is not true double action because it takes an additional separate action to get the gun to fire.

Maybe Glock is "two" action - or 1 1/2 action - but it is not double action.
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Old 06-14-2012, 10:35   #14
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Single Action and Double Action are REVOLVER terms that, unfortunately, were carried over into autoloader applications because (in my opinion) too many people had too much time on their hands and could not find any better philosophical question to expend all the excess on!

Enormous mental, print, and electronic resources have been expended because of this kludgy attempt to adapt this terminology. I weep for this tragedy! (OK, I've sounded off; now I'll crawl back in my hole and resume contemplation of the karmic harmony of the universe.)
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Old 06-14-2012, 10:45   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyR View Post
The designation has nothing to do with the length of the trigger pull. Since there is no hammer to cock or decock, it is designated DAO.

I just love the sound effects on some TV shows when you hear someone cocking a Glock.

Think in terms of revolvers:

Single Action
SA/DA
DAO
Even better is when a movie cop rack's his/her slide, to let you know they mean business.
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Old 06-14-2012, 11:13   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GasTurbine View Post
I know they categorize it that way because of it longer pull, but the fact is, (besides going thru all the safeties) it preforms just one action...releasing the striker, thus, technically making it an SA gun.

I know that Armslist has "Striker fired" added to their "Action types"...I hope this catches on.
This is not true. The trigger performs two tasks. 1) It completes the cocking of the striker and, 2) It releases the striker to fire a cartridge. This is two distinct actions by the trigger, ergo the definition of DAO.

About two years ago, I got into a spirited discussion about this very topic on another website so I took it upon myself to contact Glock and to speak with a tech/designer. He assured me that the Glock design was a DAO design and that this was also the designation that the BAFTE assigned to the pistol (not that that would make a world of difference).
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Old 06-14-2012, 11:16   #17
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Originally Posted by leedesert View Post
A single action requires no further setting of the hammer. The trigger strictly releases it. The striker in a Glock still has to be pulled back the rest of the way and then released. If a Glock was SA we would have a much sweeter trigger pull but would then need an external safety.
That would make it "not" a Glock.

Sent via mental telepathy.
Nope. Example is the M&P Smith and Wesson. S&W defines the M&P as a DAO pistol but in reality, the striker is held in a fully cocking position prior to release. The trigger only does one thing; it releases the striker via the sear. It does not cock the striker any more than it is already. I believe the XD series operates this same way.
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Old 06-14-2012, 11:21   #18
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Originally Posted by SouthernBoyVA View Post
This is not true. The trigger performs two tasks. 1) It completes the cocking of the striker and, 2) It releases the striker to fire a cartridge. This is two distinct actions by the trigger, ergo the definition of DAO.
...
^^This.




Of course it is really quite different from the traditional DOA hammer fired guns.. but since the trigger pull does two things and can not be fired any other way, it seems that it is literally DAO.
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Old 06-14-2012, 11:30   #19
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Originally Posted by PAGunner View Post
Even better is when a movie cop rack's his/her slide, to let you know they mean business.
I can't recall which TV show - maybe Criminal Minds - JJ (A.J. Cook)

Police guys get ready to break down a door - guy racks the slide - then they kick in the door & rush in - same guy racks the slide again to let the BG inside know he means business.
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Old 06-14-2012, 11:33   #20
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Originally Posted by Z71bill View Post
I can't recall which TV show - maybe Criminal Minds - JJ (A.J. Cook)

Police guys get ready to break down a door - guy racks the slide - then they kick in the door & rush in - same guy racks the slide again to let the BG inside know he means business.

I think a good indicator that you mean business is pulling the trigger. :confused:



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Old 06-14-2012, 12:24   #21
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Originally Posted by emtjr928 View Post
Because they are! Drawing the trigger to the rear completes the setting of the striker spring before it releases the striker.

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You're absolutely right! Finally someone besides me has seen a skeleton model in action. I also saw a video on it this year.
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Old 06-14-2012, 12:57   #22
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Originally Posted by emtjr928 View Post
Because they are! Drawing the trigger to the rear completes the setting of the striker spring before it releases the striker.

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Unlike the SAO M&P, where the striker is 100% cocked and ready to fire.
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Old 06-14-2012, 12:57   #23
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The BATF classifies the GLOCK as DAO because it completes the cocking of the firing pin (loading of the striker) and then releases it (double action). The gun is incapable of single action fire, therefore, the Glock is double action only (DAO).

So if the question remains, why do people call a Glock double action, your answer is above.

If you want to believe it's not double action because it doesn't cock without racking the slide, or the pressing of the trigger doesn't do all of the cocking, or because it doesn't have second strike capability that's your choice.

However, the one thing Glock is certainly not is single action. Single Action by definition does only one single task; releases the hammer/striker. If ANY cocking occurs with the trigger press it is NOT single Action.
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Old 06-14-2012, 12:58   #24
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I thought this was more of an ATF thing. When Glocks were first introduced, ATF had only two designations: Single Action (cowboy guns, 1911s) or Double Action (first pull of the trigger cocks and fires gun, then movement of slide cocks hammer/striker and trigger releases it). Then came Glocks and it was classified as DA Only.
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Old 06-14-2012, 14:05   #25
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SA is something totally different.
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