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Old 10-05-2012, 19:52   #26
Clem Eastwood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklee4570 View Post
Anytime a proven process (Tennifer) is changed, people become nervous. The big question is whether the new treatment will be a durable and rust resistant as the old treatment. Time will tell.
the answer is no, the new treatment is not anywhere near as rust resistent. ive never rusted a tennifer glock. and within a month the new grey slide i bought with a march '12 test fire had specs of rust on it. i sent it to CCR and i havent had a problem since. the new finish is junk compared to the old one.
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Old 10-06-2012, 02:15   #27
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Be aware that the metal treatment and the top coat are two different things. The Tenifer is underneath the top coat.
Dare I say that this topic should be a sticky already....
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Old 10-06-2012, 07:59   #28
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That's true!!

When do people realize that Tenifer is not the finish on Glock slides!
And that Tenifer is with 1 "N" !

I found some interesting reading material on finishing.com

Like:
Gents, I can say with 100% certainty that the cyanide process that involves surface nitriding of metal is perfectly legal within the USA. I know this because I currently regulate 2 such processes right here in Springfield, Ohio. They both use a molten cyanide bath to introduce the nitrogen into the structure of the metal part being nitrided. Please see
www.hefusa.com and www.trutecind.com.

Jeff

Jeff Yinger
gov't - Springfield, Ohio

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Remember that Tenifer is not a Glock-only thing....and that it is very important how the process (Tenifer) is applied to material....wether it's a slide or a crankshaft.

Because Tenifer is not a Glock-only-thing, I doubt that they can mention the Tenifer being applied to Glock pistols on their website when they don't.....
I think Herr Tenifer won't be happy with that....

So I think they still use the Tenifer process, regardless what Glock CS reps say......or people at Armorers Courses.....I think that they only tell you things that they have heard from others they have heard it from others etc etc.....but no one really knows.

The link: http://www.finishing.com/324/69.shtml
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:27   #29
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Originally Posted by Ridder View Post
So I think they still use the Tenifer process, regardless what Glock CS reps say......or people at Armorers Courses.....
My good friend is a Surefire military Rep who deals with Glock on a regular basis. This is what he told me over the past 4th of July weekend. He said the folks at Glock find it humorous all the BS they read on the forums from the supposed experts!

I've had mid and late 90's G17's and G34's who's finish didn't hold up to heavy holster use as well as a few of my more recent samples.
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Old 10-06-2012, 12:28   #30
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My good friend is a Surefire military Rep who deals with Glock on a regular basis. This is what he told me over the past 4th of July weekend. He said the folks at Glock find it humorous all the BS they read on the forums from the supposed experts!
So maybe they like spreading disinformation to see just how far it goes?

Hafta say, that'd make for an interesting weekend on the 'net, not to mention a really interesting office betting pool.
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Old 10-06-2012, 15:49   #31
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any reason why glock wont settle the matter by stating what is and what is not?
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Old 10-06-2012, 15:50   #32
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So maybe they like spreading disinformation to see just how far it goes?

Hafta say, that'd make for an interesting weekend on the 'net, not to mention a really interesting office betting pool.

One thing I've learned is that about only half of what Glock inc. CS reps or any gun manufacturers CS for that matter tells you is correct. I learned that the hard way after making some purchases of guns that were not what customer service said they were.
You pose just about any somewhat difficult to answer question to 10 different sales reps at Glock Inc. and your likely to get 10 different answers. I had read on the internet (right here at Glock Talk)a couple of years ago that Glock was using a grey finish on all new production guns(both Gen 3 & 4) as well as the dipped extractor and I wanted neither. I called Glock Inc. and the CS rep assured me said that the grey finish was only on the Gen 4 models and that the Gen 3's were still the same with the slick black finish and old style extractor and would remain unchanged.I told him about the posts at Glocktalk and he dismissed it as internet rumors.
Based on that info, I ordered a new Gen 3 G17 from my dealer and when it arrived it had the grey finish. I rejected it and my dealer sent it back and from now on I double and triple check with customer service as well as hit the forums before ordering anything.
You call up S&W customer service and ask about Internal Lock failures and they'll tell you it's internet myth even though it's been confirmed to happen by Massad Ayoob,Grant Cunnigham and David Kenik to name a few who recommend avoiding it on a defense gun. Are those men buying into and spreading internet rumors? Most CSreos will just tell you want they want you to hear to make you buy their products. Buyer beware indeed.
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Old 10-06-2012, 17:40   #33
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Glock corporate likes to deride boards like this because they claim that the information is partially true.

The problem they continually face is that real world users are wringing out real world problems with their perfection. Glock had a history of quietly resolving problems before they became public. Then the internet flowered and boards such as this grew so that real users could post consistent issues they saw with the pistols. Corporate derides what is posted yet they are fearful of what we find, develop, and share. The reality is that in the years I have been going to armorer schools, the factory reps while smile and chuckle when someone mentions something they read on the internet. But that smile quickly fades when the end users agree it's an issue (Gen 3 light rail and cycling, G21 trigger bars, Gen 4 finish, Gen 4 RSAs, broken locking block pins, etc.).

If Glock were to grow up as a business entity, they would recognize that real world testing and data is posted here and "experiences," as a collection, speak to their line more than any CS or rep can ever hope for.

I enjoy Glock pistols like so many but I certainly won't dismiss something a poster writes when it is a legitimate problem, such as the quality in the "tennifer" processes.
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Old 10-06-2012, 17:54   #34
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I think they are afraid someone will lick the slide and get cyanide poisoning. I think I heard that somewhere.
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Old 10-06-2012, 22:29   #35
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Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
One thing I've learned is that about only half of what Glock inc. CS reps or any gun manufacturers CS for that matter tells you is correct. I learned that the hard way after making some purchases of guns that were not what customer service said they were.
You pose just about any somewhat difficult to answer question to 10 different sales reps at Glock Inc. and your likely to get 10 different answers. I had read on the internet (right here at Glock Talk)a couple of years ago that Glock was using a grey finish on all new production guns(both Gen 3 & 4) as well as the dipped extractor and I wanted neither. I called Glock Inc. and the CS rep assured me said that the grey finish was only on the Gen 4 models and that the Gen 3's were still the same with the slick black finish and old style extractor and would remain unchanged.I told him about the posts at Glocktalk and he dismissed it as internet rumors.
Based on that info, I ordered a new Gen 3 G17 from my dealer and when it arrived it had the grey finish. I rejected it and my dealer sent it back and from now on I double and triple check with customer service as well as hit the forums before ordering anything.
You call up S&W customer service and ask about Internal Lock failures and they'll tell you it's internet myth even though it's been confirmed to happen by Massad Ayoob,Grant Cunnigham and David Kenik to name a few who recommend avoiding it on a defense gun. Are those men buying into and spreading internet rumors? Most CSreos will just tell you want they want you to hear to make you buy their products. Buyer beware indeed.
Sure, I get it. I just thought that the mental image of a bunch of Glock employees getting together to dream up the next "issue" and then draw up an office pool on it was kind of funny.

Makes me glad I've gotten the few that I wanted (all prior to 2008) before this iceberg broke loose.
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:27   #36
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Bustedknee - you, sir, are disturbed!! I'll be saving that!

I, too, become concerned whenever Glock changes anything in their design, because almost every design change has caused a problem that required a subsequent correction. I can't help but believe that there are certain "known-good" serial number ranges for Glock pistols. I try to confine my purchases to older guns within certain S/N ranges. None of them came after the "shiny" slide finish characterized by "Fxx" through "Lxx". I avoid anything in the "Exx" range due to the possibility of the frame requiring an "upgrade".

We DO know one thing for certain. During one very significant period of time in Glock history (i.e. 1991 - 2010), almost no-one complained about Glock's metal finish. It became the standard against which all service weapon finishes were compared. It contributed to the sale of A LOT of guns to police agencies, and resulted in guns so durable that they could actually be refurbished and sold again through the "factory refurbished" program. Now, by contrast, we are starting to see and hear complaints about Glock slides developing spot rust. So, we can conclude that SOMETHING has changed. And, not for the better.

Corrosion resistance is part of the "simplicity" equation that made Glock#1. If they lose that advantage, S&W now (finally) has a competitive product that could put a serious dent in Glock's market (notice I said "competitive", not superior). Glock needs to not mess with their own "perfection".
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:48   #37
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I have had rust on my G19 made in Oct 2011. I have always used hot water when cleaning and noticed some rust on the slide in the extractor groove. The extractor was rusted as well. I have always used the same process for cleaning my Glocks, and this is the only one that has rusted. The finish is the dull color compared to all of my other Glocks. I live in a very dry climate and have never had to worry about rust.
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Old 10-09-2012, 04:39   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridder View Post
That's true!!

When do people realize that Tenifer is not the finish on Glock slides!
And that Tenifer is with 1 "N" !

I found some interesting reading material on finishing.com

Like:
Gents, I can say with 100% certainty that the cyanide process that involves surface nitriding of metal is perfectly legal within the USA. I know this because I currently regulate 2 such processes right here in Springfield, Ohio. They both use a molten cyanide bath to introduce the nitrogen into the structure of the metal part being nitrided. Please see
www.hefusa.com and www.trutecind.com.

Jeff

Jeff Yinger
gov't - Springfield, Ohio

*****

Remember that Tenifer is not a Glock-only thing....and that it is very important how the process (Tenifer) is applied to material....wether it's a slide or a crankshaft.

Because Tenifer is not a Glock-only-thing, I doubt that they can mention the Tenifer being applied to Glock pistols on their website when they don't.....
I think Herr Tenifer won't be happy with that....

So I think they still use the Tenifer process, regardless what Glock CS reps say......or people at Armorers Courses.....I think that they only tell you things that they have heard from others they have heard it from others etc etc.....but no one really knows.

The link: http://www.finishing.com/324/69.shtml
+1 to this Ridder. As mentioned previously, HEF USA distributes the ferritic nitrocarburizing salt, additive and oxidizing salt for the Melonite process we use. Tenifer is the European equivalent to the Melonite process. The EPA regulates the discharge of free cyanide into the environment. The Melonite process, when operated correctly, destroys free cyanide in the oxidizing bath before the parts are washed in water to remove salt residue.
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:53   #39
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From TeamGlock@glock.us

Glock discontinued the Tenifer® heat treatment mid 2011, and is now using a gas nitriding process. Same end result using a different process. Unfortunately, we don’t have an answer for you as to whether it was a gradual phase out but we are assuming it was done at the same time.

Best regards,
Emma

I then asked a follow up question to that email and got the following answer...

The Tenifer® heat treating process ended sometime in 2009, but the slide finish had no bearing on which process had been done.


Best regards,
Technical Services
770 432-1202
FAX 770 437-4701

Last edited by DirtyDan; 10-09-2012 at 14:57..
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Old 10-14-2012, 17:57   #40
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I have 3 Gen III Glocks, all dated 2005 or 2006 production. Excuse my ignorance, but does the alleged cyanide hazard apply only to the manufcturing process or does it also posit an emission hazard while shooting or even handling the gun?
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Old 10-14-2012, 18:38   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrackerKen View Post
I think they are afraid someone will lick the slide and get cyanide poisoning.
There goes my quiet, happy, quality time with my Glocks...
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Old 10-14-2012, 19:46   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridder View Post
That's true!!

When do people realize that Tenifer is not the finish on Glock slides!
And that Tenifer is with 1 "N" !

I found some interesting reading material on finishing.com

Like:
Gents, I can say with 100% certainty that the cyanide process that involves surface nitriding of metal is perfectly legal within the USA. I know this because I currently regulate 2 such processes right here in Springfield, Ohio. They both use a molten cyanide bath to introduce the nitrogen into the structure of the metal part being nitrided. Please see
www.hefusa.com and www.trutecind.com.

Jeff

Jeff Yinger
gov't - Springfield, Ohio

*****

Remember that Tenifer is not a Glock-only thing....and that it is very important how the process (Tenifer) is applied to material....wether it's a slide or a crankshaft.

Because Tenifer is not a Glock-only-thing, I doubt that they can mention the Tenifer being applied to Glock pistols on their website when they don't.....
I think Herr Tenifer won't be happy with that....

So I think they still use the Tenifer process, regardless what Glock CS reps say......or people at Armorers Courses.....I think that they only tell you things that they have heard from others they have heard it from others etc etc.....but no one really knows.

The link: http://www.finishing.com/324/69.shtml
Small world, I drive past one of those places every day.
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Old 10-14-2012, 19:51   #43
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I have 3 Gen III Glocks, all dated 2005 or 2006 production. Excuse my ignorance, but does the alleged cyanide hazard apply only to the manufcturing process or does it also posit an emission hazard while shooting or even handling the gun?
Unless you have a habit of chewing on parts of your gun, I wouldn't worry about it.

If you do, I still wouldn't worry about that, but I would worry about you.
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Old 10-14-2012, 20:03   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babysinister View Post
I have 3 Gen III Glocks, all dated 2005 or 2006 production. Excuse my ignorance, but does the alleged cyanide hazard apply only to the manufcturing process or does it also posit an emission hazard while shooting or even handling the gun?
Yes to the first part of the question and no on the second.
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Old 10-14-2012, 21:12   #45
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I am new to Glocks, I picked up my first in 2011 and now have two, born in 2010 and 2011. I have no experience with the Tenifer-treated Glocks or the black shiny finish. But, my grey-finished non-Tenifer-treated Glocks are by far the best wearing pistols I have ever owned. I have never had any trouble with finish wear or metal wear in either my Gen 4 G23 or my Gen 3 G24. As far as I can tell they are built like tanks and will take all of the abuse I can give them.

However, I tend to treat my firearms very nicely (I am not trying to imply anyone else in this thread isn't). I definitely use them, but I keep them clean and maintained.

I am not trying to say that newer Glocks are superior. I am just passing along my experiences with my Glocks. If older Glocks are even better, all I have to say is, "WOW!"
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Old 10-14-2012, 23:19   #46
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If the process was changed to meet the US' EPA requirements, does that mean that the Austria made Glocks still use tenifer?
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Old 10-15-2012, 01:10   #47
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Info from two Glock official sources (one being Emma) is that Glock dropped Tenifer on ALL slides in 2010.
Austrian or US, no more Tenifer.
Denis
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Old 10-15-2012, 04:59   #48
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In the last armor's class I attended, we were told to wipe down the slide with a light coat of oil. I just wonder what happened, remember the, "you only need oil in these spots, not too much."

I can attest to the fact that our newer Gen 3, G23, pistols are showing signs of rust if not cleaned at regular intervals. My Gen 2 G19 has never showded any sign of rust, nor has my Gen 2, G23s.

I understand the EPA guidelines, but the new process isn't nearly as resistant to rust as the old one was.
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Old 10-15-2012, 09:06   #49
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I have Glocks with both finishes. I only use Balistol to clean and lubricate, including wiping down the slide with the stuff. Never use water, as some forum member said he uses. Water is part of the rust equation.
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Old 10-15-2012, 15:04   #50
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Info from two Glock official sources (one being Emma) is that Glock dropped Tenifer on ALL slides in 2010.
Austrian or US, no more Tenifer.
Denis
Even the same person(emma)can't get their story straight.Read my post above where emma emailed me that it was mid 2011 that they switched.
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