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Old 10-05-2012, 09:47   #181
Gundude
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Originally Posted by Goaltender66 View Post
But even with that, I don't find arguments against federally-enforced CCW reciprocity all that persuasive except on political grounds.
How about on practical grounds? Is the federal government really gonna tell DC and the state of Maryland, where most of them live, they must allow people who have, say, a Washington state CCW, where no training whatsoever is required, to carry concealed in their territory?

It'll never happen. The "CCW reciprocity law" is going to be several hundred pages. It's going to require "lowest common denominator" rules for states issuing CCWs. Public safety funds will be cut off for states who don't comply. It won't take long before the feds are in control of all CCW issuance rules. Again, if you don't believe that, you've been living on a different planet.

If you wanted to undo a quarter century of phenomenal state progress in the realm of CCW within a couple of years, getting the feds involved is the way to do it.
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:56   #182
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I often think the convulsive hatred that the RP fanboys have for Romney is rooted, at least in part, in their organizational hatred for Jews and Israel. The Mormons have a number of philosophical and historical parallels to Judaism, according to a number of scholars, so one supposes that probably accounts for the Paulinista antagonism toward the guy.

Last I knew, there haven't been any Mormons yelling "God is great" as they fly Boeing aircraft into our skyscrapers...and it wouldn't take much to figure out, between Obama and Romney, which one is the Marxist.
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:02   #183
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I often think the convulsive hatred that the RP fanboys have for Romney is rooted, at least in part, in their organizational hatred for Jews and Israel. The Mormons have a number of philosophical and historical parallels to Judaism, according to a number of scholars, so one supposes that probably accounts for the Paulinista antagonism toward the guy.

Last I knew, there haven't been any Mormons yelling "God is great" as they fly Boeing aircraft into our skyscrapers...and it wouldn't take much to figure out, between Obama and Romney, which one is the Marxist.
You're the guy that doesn't smoke pot, right?
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:03   #184
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Originally Posted by Gundude View Post
How about on practical grounds?
I don't think there's a distinction in that difference, FWIW.

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Is the federal government really gonna tell DC and the state of Maryland, where most of them live, they must allow people who have, say, a Washington state CCW, where no training whatsoever is required, to carry concealed in their territory?
Well, on that specific point I don't happen to believe that there should be a training requirement built into the law before one may legally carry. Such things tend to be abused into de facto gun bans. For example, there's a training requirement in DC which must be satisfied before one may own a handgun, but there are no actual trainers in DC...in other words, to exercise a constitutional right in DC one must first drive to another state.

That said....

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It'll never happen. The "CCW reciprocity law" is going to be several hundred pages. It's going to require "lowest common denominator" rules for states issuing CCWs. Public safety funds will be cut off for states who don't comply. It won't take long before the feds are in control of all CCW issuance rules. Again, if you don't believe that, you've been living on a different planet.

If you wanted to undo a quarter century of phenomenal state progress in the realm of CCW within a couple of years, getting the feds involved is the way to do it.
I don't think extortion of public safety funds would be required. To me, in this area federal supremacy is clear. It's only when the Feds want a state to do something they can't specifically require that the extortion bit comes in (drinking age minimums come to mind...). In certain cases the Feds can certainly tell a state what it must allow in its own "territory" (the Full Faith and Credit clause springs to mind as an example).

But again, something can be entirely Constitutional but still a bad idea. I can agree that having the Federal Government dictate reciprocity standards is a big minefield, but that doesn't mean that it would be unconstitutional for it to do so.
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:08   #185
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You're the guy that doesn't smoke pot, right?
Aw, c'mon now...stop being mean. I'm trying to promote understanding here. You know...celebrate diversity, etc?
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:17   #186
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He returned to avoid unemployment and irrelevance.
Or maybe, he returned in order to foment such animosity and hatred within the party that it would destroy itself from within...

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Old 10-05-2012, 10:35   #187
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You're the guy that doesn't smoke pot, right?
Did you mean to imply he's the only one that doesn't smoke pot??
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:35   #188
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Or maybe, he returned in order to foment such animosity and hatred within the party that it would destroy itself from within...
With friends like that.....

I'd prefer a reformer instead of a destroyer, but if you're sure that's what he's been up to, I'll take your word for it.

Last edited by Cavalry Doc; 10-05-2012 at 10:37..
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:47   #189
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With friends like that.....

I'd prefer a reformer instead of a destroyer, but if you're sure that's what he's been up to, I'll take your word for it.
Sometimes the rot is so deep you just gotta tear it down and build a new one.
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:48   #190
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Did you mean to imply he's the only one that doesn't smoke pot??
Nope, just that the scattered nature of that post suggested he might have been on pot when he wrote it.
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:21   #191
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Nope, just that the scattered nature of that post suggested he might have been on pot when he wrote it.
Well that is a little far fetched, dontcha think?
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Old 10-05-2012, 12:46   #192
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That's a reasonable prediction considering you're only expanding on my earlier prediction that this election will be the lowest (relative) turnout since the 70's.
You have been taking statistical analysis courses from another one of your liberal bretheren on this forum.

I am not expanding on you theory of a lower turnout at all.

You do understand that I was referring to the percentage of third party representation.

In other words for all their talk and bluster they are going to prove to be full of hot air when it comes to results.

There is going to be so little actual turnout that even wasting time on the Forum mentioning them is less productive than analyzing belly-button lint.
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Old 10-05-2012, 14:41   #193
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Hilarious, I'm trying desperately to get forthright, on subject answers from you ... and you post long obfuscated ad hom blanket attacks on me (without knowing me or engaging me in discussion previously) and "liberals" ... instead of engaging me on the topic. With that said ... I'll try to avoid being guilty of the same by not continuing on with the ancillary diversionary game. So ...

Your 50,000 foot, entirely vague response is in fact "Obomacare". OK. That is per my request for an example of your statement: "liberals keep forcing their will on people ". Pretty hard to respond to that unless you want an equally vague and 50,000 foot answer. Since you won't say what specifically beyond that though ... I'll have to infer it is the most common argument against it:

The mandate. How can the government force me to get insurance or pay a tax penalty (or tax ... whatever you want to call it).

Well ... interestingly enough ... the answer lies mostly within your own original argument ( "how can the liberals (in this case liberal policy) keep forcing their will on people"). I think it can best be illustrated by asking what happens when YOU (I'm speaking figuratively ... I don't know your specific situation) choose to not be insured? Do you think you can control when and where you have a major accident or illness? Do you think you can cover, out of pocket, the million dollars of medical bills (if you even live)? Who exactly has to pay for it when you don't? So ... YOUR choice (gamble) to not be insured, forces me to pay for YOU (in the form of higher direct costs and premiums). YOU are IMPACTING ME. People like you are "forcing their will on" ME. Do you see the irony with that ... when your complaint is ""liberals keep forcing their will on people "? The mandate is necessary to protect my rights and liberty. Without it, I will continue to pay for other peoples bad decisions.

The concept of liberty and life, as far as I'm concerned is: Do what you want, until/if you impact me (or prohibitively "society" in general). Then we have to have some rules.

I call that libertarian, you seem to want to call it "liberal" somehow.

So ... that addresses the mandate angle. It ain't perfect and I think better alternatives, but that is different subject. I hardly feel it is some infringement on my rights though, quite the opposite. It is stopping deadbeats from infringing on MY rights by CHOOSING not to insure themselves.



I'm not going to address this in this post ... just simply to limit the scope of the discussion. I'll gladly address it separately later if you so desire (I'll try to make a note of it and be proactively respond later if we get to that point).
I'll try to keep this simple for you. You asked for an “example” and I gave you one. Obomacare! If you wanted an explanation also you should have asked for and example and an explanation.

First mistake… health care is not a right it’s a privilege.

Who should pay you ask. The person using the service. If you don’t pay the bill you get sued. It should work just like any other product or service works. However, the bleeding heart liberals are mandating that the working people once again pay for the lame and lazy by mandating health care and levying a tax if you don’t have it. Are those that can’t pay for it being forced to pay or be taxed? NO! And that is the only reason for Obomacare… so the rest of us can pay for those that don’t pay.

Now before you reply read this. http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig4/ellis1.html it’s quite lengthy but you REALLY need to read it. The Federal Government has no business giving out or mandating charity. But the liberals just love their free stuff that others have to pay for.
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Old 10-05-2012, 14:48   #194
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However, the bleeding heart liberals are mandating that the working people once again pay for the lame and lazy by mandating health care and levying a tax if you don’t have it. Are those that can’t pay for it being forced to pay or be taxed. NO! And that is the only reason for Obomacare… so the rest of us can pay for those that don’t pay.
The only surprise is that it took this long. When EMTALA was passed, the door was opened for freeloaders to get free medical care. It was only a matter of time before everybody had to pay for this.
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The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA)[1] is a U.S. Act of Congress passed in 1986 as part of the Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (COBRA). It requires hospitals to provide care to anyone needing emergency healthcare treatment regardless of citizenship, legal status or ability to pay. There are no reimbursement provisions. Participating hospitals may only transfer or discharge patients needing emergency treatment under their own informed consent, after stabilization, or when their condition requires transfer to a hospital better equipped to administer the treatment.
Who was the bleeding heart liberal in office in 1986 who signed this abomination? Probably the type of guy who would ban machine guns too.

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Old 10-05-2012, 15:22   #195
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What do conservatives do if they don't want marijuana?
They don't smoke it. I'm a conservative and I'm all for legalizing drugs. But I'm not getting into a debate about it.

You know who started the war on drugs. Teddy Roosevelt. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform...cotic_Drug_Act Conservative? NO! Founder of the Progressive ("Bull Moose") Party of 1912. Progressive... better know as Liberals who now want to be call Progressives again. So it looks like that liberals put that ca-bash on drugs too.
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Old 10-05-2012, 15:45   #196
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The only surprise is that it took this long. When EMTALA was passed, the door was opened for freeloaders to get free medical care. It was only a matter of time before everybody had to pay for this.
I absolutely agree.


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Who was the bleeding heart liberal in office in 1986 who signed this abomination? Probably the type of guy who would ban machine guns too.
Democrats control the House of Representatives passed it, Reagan signed it. Reagan was from Koymfornia so no big surprise there.
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Old 10-05-2012, 16:35   #197
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Democrats control the House of Representatives and passed it Reagan signed it. Reagan was from Koymfornia so no big surprise there.
It is pretty fascinating that he is the model for who conservatives want their "real" conservative candidate to be.
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Old 10-05-2012, 16:43   #198
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It is pretty fascinating that he is the model for who conservatives want their "real" conservative candidate to be.
Not me. Foreign policy maybe. Domestic? He was too fricken "compassionate"
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Old 10-05-2012, 17:05   #199
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It is pretty fascinating that he is the model for who conservatives want their "real" conservative candidate to be.
Some things yes some things no. After 50 + years I'm still looking for the "PERFECT" congress and president. So far I'm 0 for 0. What I am sure of is... I've lost all tolerance for liberals and stupidly. Not necessarily in that order. ActualI I've come to believe they are one in the same.
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Old 10-05-2012, 17:16   #200
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To me the 2A actually seems to bind the states as well as the federal government, even without incorporation. The 2A has the simple imperative "Shall Not Be Infringed." It doesn't have the same phrasing as the 1A, which is that "Congress shall make no law...", which tells me that the Framers intended for the 1A to be a check against federal power only (meaning censorship would be a state matter, as would a religious test before holding office), but the 2A was intended to be more global..
It says "shall not be infringed" but the bill of rights was only designed to regulate the federal government, just as the constitution creates and empowers only the federal government. It's like, the local fire department has a regulation saying "no employee can carry a gun on duty" - that doesn't regulate the police, because it's a fire department rule, even if it doesn't say "no fire department employee."
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