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Old 10-03-2012, 21:58   #1
DaBurna
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Recent Glock Issues: Outsourcing Parts??

We've all read NUMEROUS TRHREADS on FTE, RTB, FTF issues etc....etc..... Glock PERFECTION is supposedly not what it once was. I recently talked with a LEO who just completed an Amorer's course for his department. The Glock representative would not confirm or deny but the thought is that Glock Inc. is outsourcing parts (extractors, ejectors, recoil springs) to smaller companies to try to cut costs. I know manufacturing is about costs, and ecomonies of scale but what have u guys heard?

Would Glock Jeopardize the brand for a few extra $$ in profit margin per gun?
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:01   #2
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I would question whether that they Glock would manufacture their springs but in todays world it would make sense that they would outsource some things.
I once worked for this big company that manufactured tractors, implements,construction equipment,over the road trucks even pickups.
They owned every subsidiary that manufactured every thing they used from valve guide seal,gaskets even door seals.
In 1984 they went out of business and sold off their lines, International Harvester,heck at one point in time they even manufactured refrigerators.

Glock seems to be having their problems,what ever the reason,and outsourcing and sloppy tolerances,quality control and cost cutting would explain it possibly. I don't think Glock will ever tell the public,although most IH employes had a clue that things weren't going well for IH long before the end. SJ 40
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:25   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJ 40 View Post
I would question whether that they Glock would manufacture their springs but in todays world it would make sense that they would outsource some things.
I once worked for this big company that manufactured tractors, implements,construction equipment,over the road trucks even pickups.
They owned every subsidiary that manufactured every thing they used from valve guide seal,gaskets even door seals.
In 1984 they went out of business and sold off their lines, International Harvester,heck at one point in time they even manufactured refrigerators.

Glock seems to be having their problems,what ever the reason,and outsourcing and sloppy tolerances,quality control and cost cutting would explain it possibly. I don't think Glock will ever tell the public,although most IH employes had a clue that things weren't going well for IH long before the end. SJ 40
+1 I agree. The jig is up!
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Old 10-04-2012, 05:52   #4
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To my knowledge, Glock has never manufactured springs.
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Old 10-04-2012, 06:07   #5
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I suspect the supposedly "MIM" parts in current production Glocks may be made by Taurus. The extractors and locking blocks look like they're MIM to me, some have said the most recent firing pins are as well, the ones with notches at the muzzle end as caliber indicators instead of the old caliber markings on the rear of the firing pin.

MIM equipment is a decent size investment and most companies would rather outsource the parts, as well Taurus has often taken pride in saying that they make MIM parts for many other firearm manufacturers.
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Old 10-04-2012, 06:34   #6
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It was and is common for american gun companies to sub out to other american gun companies. Except, glocks not on good terms with anyone and they would likely be the first choice.

Smith and ruger would be the main sources.

Wolff springs is a major american outsourcer, walter gets on with anyone.

Glock makes parts in huge quantity and sits on them. American companies with excess parts sell them off to numrich with a rider that they can rebuy the the remaining stock if they want it at a bulk rate. Saves on warehousing.

Glock parts interchangibility also saves money.
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:26   #7
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I think all or most of the big gun companies are in a mode right now in which they are getting as much product out the door as fast as they can, and quality control is a secondary consideration. In the first place, they know they can sell everything they make right now. In the second place, they don't know if they will be able to sell product, or what products, after November. And, yes, I mean November and not January. This president has set an all time record for executive orders.

I think Glock will do anything it has to do to save a few cents per unit. The market drives this. There are a lot more choices out there, and they have to compete, and keeping prices in line is part of competition.

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with MIM parts. They do, however, have to be made to correct specifications, just as they would if they were made by any other process.

My guess is that if Glock ordered tens of thousands (hundreds of thousands?) of extractors and twenty percent of them didn't work consistently, they would not, in this environment, scrap the parts, or even the bad parts if they were identifiable. They would use the parts and ship the product and let the buyers do the QC. It's cheaper that way. And I don't think Glock is the only company that is in this mode by a long shot.
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:40   #8
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I really doubt anyone from the company would tell you or anyone else if they were. I don't think the current problems have anything to do with outsourcing. Poor engineering is the real problem.
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Old 10-04-2012, 15:25   #9
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If there's any particular part in a Glock you don't like, isn't it possible to buy an uprated version of anything in the aftermarket?

(And, yes, I know that isn't the point.)
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Old 10-04-2012, 15:51   #10
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Glock seems to be in a hurry to become the new SIG.

Where they once made wonderful guns you could trust and their newer ones are really hit and miss. If you want to be guaranteed a good Glock, you will have to seek out an older one. Otherwise you roll the dice on the newer Glocks. You might get a gem...you might not.

That seems to be their new business model!

LOL
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Old 10-04-2012, 16:33   #11
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Out source, in source, up source, down source............. It doesn't matter to me, I still love my Glocks and plan to buy more in the future.
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Old 10-04-2012, 16:49   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brickboy240 View Post
Glock seems to be in a hurry to become the new SIG.

Where they once made wonderful guns you could trust and their newer ones are really hit and miss. If you want to be guaranteed a good Glock, you will have to seek out an older one. Otherwise you roll the dice on the newer Glocks. You might get a gem...you might not.

That seems to be their new business model!

LOL

I will not buy new and by the way I Love and trust my Glocks,too bad the new Perfection is now spelled with a small p. SJ 40
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Old 10-04-2012, 17:49   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brickboy240 View Post
Glock seems to be in a hurry to become the new SIG.

Where they once made wonderful guns you could trust and their newer ones are really hit and miss. If you want to be guaranteed a good Glock, you will have to seek out an older one. Otherwise you roll the dice on the newer Glocks. You might get a gem...you might not.

That seems to be their new business model!

LOL
Sorry to hear things have gone downhill for the company. The NEWEST Glock I own is a 2009 G23. Runs like a top.
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Old 10-04-2012, 17:51   #14
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I must be lucky all my gen 2, 3 and 4th Glocks run just fine. I just run them nearly dry, like I was taught in the Glock Transition Course many years ago. Other then shoot them and clean them a few times a year I leave them alone. The only mods are NY1 & 3.5 connector. I have not heard of any grumbling from police departments running new Glocks. I think everyone should dump all their Glocks and mags on the used gun market. All us suckers could then pick these lousy guns on the cheap. I would love to trade my Kahr CM9 for one of these Glocks.
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Old 10-04-2012, 17:57   #15
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I just had a Gen4 19 in the shop . Wouldn't feed hollow points. I ended up replacing the followers on 3 of the customers mags to #6..Glock said they have never heard of any issues like that. The mags also didn't work in another Gen4 19 or 3rd Gen 19..
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Old 10-04-2012, 18:47   #16
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I must be lucky all my gen 2, 3 and 4th Glocks run just fine. I just run them nearly dry, like I was taught in the Glock Transition Course many years ago. Other then shoot them and clean them a few times a year I leave them alone. The only mods are NY1 & 3.5 connector. I have not heard of any grumbling from police departments running new Glocks. I think everyone should dump all their Glocks and mags on the used gun market. All us suckers could then pick these lousy guns on the cheap. I would love to trade my Kahr CM9 for one of these Glocks.
I feel the same way, I think that if these lousy Glocks are dumped on the market there may be enough misinformed people like me that will pick them up to keep the factory running.
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Old 10-04-2012, 19:21   #17
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I must be lucky all my gen 2, 3 and 4th Glocks run just fine. I just run them nearly dry, like I was taught in the Glock Transition Course many years ago. Other then shoot them and clean them a few times a year I leave them alone. The only mods are NY1 & 3.5 connector. I have not heard of any grumbling from police departments running new Glocks. I think everyone should dump all their Glocks and mags on the used gun market. All us suckers could then pick these lousy guns on the cheap. I would love to trade my Kahr CM9 for one of these Glocks.
My history...
1. gen1 17. Perfection.
2. gen2 23 and 23C (same gun/back then entire Glock slide assemblies could be bought pretty cheap still). Perfection.
3. gen3 23C. Perfection.
4. gen3 17. Perfection.
5. gen3 17C. Perfection.
6. gen4 17. Hate the RTF. The slide finish is not as durable. Getting holster wear I've never seen before now. Other than hating that... Perfection.

I've fixed a lot of problems on these gen4 guns by simply cleaning them, oiling them heavily, and when needed converting back to the old RSA and/or lightening the spring at the same time.

Glock had perfection. Currently they don't. I'm thinking by gen5 they will again. They dropped the stupid gills before. Maybe they will realize RTF should be dropped and stop releasing guns that are obviously untested.
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:19   #18
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If there's any particular part in a Glock you don't like, isn't it possible to buy an uprated version of anything in the aftermarket?

(And, yes, I know that isn't the point.)
As far as I know, the only Glock parts that are not made aftermarket are the locking block, trigger housing, magazine catch spring and slide lock spring.

I don't think aftermarket trigger bars are made either, every "custom" trigger w/trigger bar I know of uses an aftermarket trigger pad with a trigger bar made by Glock.
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:31   #19
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When did they start with the MIM strikers and locking blocks??
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:35   #20
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The firing pins that are supposedly MIM have no caliber marking on the rear of them, they instead have notches at the muzzle end of the firing pin, one for 9mm, two for .40/.357/45GAP, and three for 10mm/45ACP.

The locking blocks that are supposedly MIM have a round bump on them. In the picture below, the one on top is the old investment cast locking block from I believe a Gen2. The one on bottom is supposedly MIM and it's in an RTF2 frame.
General Glocking

Both parts were changed to that around 2009, some models later than others. My Gen3 G27 with NRR prefix, Aug 2009 test fire still had the old investment cast locking block.
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