[fortyofforty]

Originally Posted by GAFinch

Yeah, that's why our Dear Leader's callous/sociopathic reference to an ambassador and two SEAL's being massacred on the anniversary of 9/11 as just a bump in the road is very disturbing and should heavily factor into forming a proportional response plan to his potential re-election.

Well it's not as though this President's policies have led to the deaths of hundreds of Mexicans or a Border Patrol Agent or two. Oh, wait. Never mind.

[Ringo S.]

Originally Posted by fortyofforty

Pay no attention to Lenin's and Stalin's extensive use of slave labor in the Gulag to help their economy stay afloat. Nothing to see here.

Oi, wey!... Can you imagine, that figure of Gulag prisoners at the pick was almost the same, as figure of prisoners of jail system in USA NOW? Hard to believe? Understood, years of education by liberal media and liberal historians. And figure of 100 million of soviet victims, I saw here is sign of historical ignorance about russian history among americans that border with lunacy...

[fortyofforty]

Originally Posted by Ringo S.

Oi, wey!... Can you imagine, that figure of Gulag prisoners at the pick was almost the same, as figure of prisoners of jail system in USA NOW? Hard to believe? Understood, years of education by liberal media and liberal historians. And figure of 100 million of soviet victims, I saw here is sign of historical ignorance about russian history among americans that border with lunacy...

If you are so ignorant of history as to compare the United States criminal justice system with the Soviet Gulag then I cannot help you. I am embarrassed for you, in fact. Your education was an abject failure. I use direct Soviet sources to gain insight into the Gulag. You use Soviet propaganda. I will stick with historical fact, you can while away your time in a Stalinist fantasyland. Had you spent any time in the Gulag you'd be singing a different tune.

[427]

Originally Posted by Ringo S.

Oi, wey!... Can you imagine, that figure of Gulag prisoners at the pick was almost the same, as figure of prisoners of jail system in USA NOW? Hard to believe? Understood, years of education by liberal media and liberal historians. And figure of 100 million of soviet victims, I saw here is sign of historical ignorance about russian history among americans that border with lunacy...

I said the combined deaths of Lenin, Stalin and Mao. Combined. I'll quote myself and bold the important part.

Originally Posted by 427

I can't believe that there are people who are nostalgic for leaders like Lenin, Stalin and Mao, who combined, killed 100's millions of their own people though their theories and all but ignore that little inconvenient truth. Amazing.

Since you consider me ignorant on Russian history and you're feeling nostalgic for Communism, please enlighten me on the actual numbers of victims under the great humanitarian, Stalin. Mao and Lenin, too, please.

Since we'll probably never know the exact number, it's OK to round to the nearest million.

What was Hitler's death toll? A "paltry", by comparison, 6-7 million?

[Ringo S.]

Originally Posted by 427

What was Hitler's death toll? A "paltry", by comparison, 6-7 million?

That's nice... For people, who like to throw moronic figures of hundreds of millions killed by Stalin personally, I can say - Hitler killed about 55 millions. That's the toll of WWII, that he started. How do you like this method of counting? And by the way, should I add to guilty party people who helped Hitler to rice his Third Reich, rulers of England an France?
And Chikatillo killed only something like dozen women, why bother to even put him under trial?

[countrygun]

Originally Posted by Ringo S.

That's nice... For people, who like to throw moronic figures of hundreds of millions killed by Stalin personally, I can say - Hitler killed about 55 millions. That's the toll of WWII, that he started. How do you like this method of counting? And by the way, should I add to guilty party people who helped Hitler to rice his Third Reich, rulers of England an France?
And Chikatillo killed only something like dozen women, why bother to even put him under trial?

OK so you want to deflect from Stalins killing of his own people. Got it. They didn't count because it was for "The right reasons" I suppose, he was still a great leader

[427]

Originally Posted by Ringo S.

That's nice... For people, who like to throw moronic figures of hundreds of millions killed by Stalin personally, I can say - Hitler killed about 55 millions. That's the toll of WWII, that he started. How do you like this method of counting? And by the way, should I add to guilty party people who helped Hitler to rice his Third Reich, rulers of England an France?
And Chikatillo killed only something like dozen women, why bother to even put him under trial?

You call my figures moronic, OK. So how many Russians died under Stalinism from the purges, the famines? Set the record straight - I don't want to misrepresent the humanitarian that was Stalin.

[JFrame]

I find it amusing that the single remaining topic of conversation on this thread is whether Stalin was a genocidal maniac or not...

The OP post had so much fail, and was so thoroughly discredited, that it is a mere afterthought at this point.


.

[GAFinch]

Originally Posted by fortyofforty

Well it's not as though this President's policies have led to the deaths of hundreds of Mexicans or a Border Patrol Agent or two. Oh, wait. Never mind.

Yeah, there's also that...may as well consider them American citizens who hadn't moved here yet. That policy is particularly bad since it was intentionally designed to not track weapons except by tracing serial numbers of ones found at crime scenes. Gun violence is unacceptable, unless it involves brown people. Environmental protections against oil companies are critical, unless it involves brown people.

Originally Posted by JFrame

I find it amusing that the single remaining topic of conversation on this thread is whether Stalin was a genocidal maniac or not...

The OP post had so much fail, and was so thoroughly discredited, that it is a mere afterthought at this point. :cool

Yes, criticizing people for criticizing people who believe in failed political theories.

[Ringo S.]

Originally Posted by 427

So how many Russians died under Stalinism from the purges, the famines? Set the record straight - I don't want to misrepresent the humanitarian that was Stalin.

You know, I read somewhere , that 100 millions of africans died as result of slave trade, and 100 millions of indians died as result of genocide... Must be true... Cos'... you know...it's in the books. That means that US killed twice more people, then Stalin...

[PocketProtector]

Originally Posted by Flying-Dutchman

Marxist, Communist, Socialist –These are extreme words to be avoided unless the descriptive fits; and in the case of Obama, and his staff members Valerie Jarrett and David Axelrod it fits.

These are children of Communist Party members; Red Diaper Babies.

60 years ago these folks would have a thick FBI file and if in a position of power would have to change their name to find work or leave the Country.

Yep

Socialism by definition is just a midstep....

Definition of socialism (n)

bing.com · Bing Dictionary
so·cial·ism
[ sṓshə lìzəm ]

political system of communal ownership: a political theory or system in which the means of production and distribution are controlled by the people and operated according to equity and fairness rather than market principles
movement based on socialism: a political movement based on principles of socialism, typically advocating an end to private property and to the exploitation of workers
stage between capitalism and communism: in Marxist theory, the stage after the proletarian revolution when a society is changing from capitalism to communism

Both are hell, and were the History of the world until the Constitution of the USA, which opened the door for the greatest economic engine EVER KNOWN.

[PocketProtector]

Originally Posted by Flying-Dutchman

Marxist, Communist, Socialist –These are extreme words to be avoided unless the descriptive fits; and in the case of Obama, and his staff members Valerie Jarrett and David Axelrod it fits.

These are children of Communist Party members; Red Diaper Babies.

60 years ago these folks would have a thick FBI file and if in a position of power would have to change their name to find work or leave the Country.

Yep

Socialism by definition is just a midstep....

Definition of socialism (n)

bing.com · Bing Dictionary
so·cial·ism
[ sṓshə lìzəm ]

1. political system of communal ownership: a political theory or system in which the means of production and distribution are controlled by the people and operated according to equity and fairness rather than market principles
2. movement based on socialism: a political movement based on principles of socialism, typically advocating an end to private property and to the exploitation of workers
3. stage between capitalism and communism: in Marxist theory, the stage after the proletarian revolution when a society is changing from capitalism to communism

Both are hell, and were the History of the world until the Constitution of the USA, which opened the door for the greatest economic engine EVER KNOWN.

[fortyofforty]

Originally Posted by Ringo S.

You know, I read somewhere , that 100 millions of africans died as result of slave trade, and 100 millions of indians died as result of genocide... Must be true... Cos'... you know...it's in the books. That means that US killed twice more people, then Stalin...

So, you don't have an answer, then. OK. That tells me everything I need to know about you.

[countrygun]

Originally Posted by Ringo S.

You know, I read somewhere , that 100 millions of africans died as result of slave trade, and 100 millions of indians died as result of genocide... Must be true... Cos'... you know...it's in the books. That means that US killed twice more people, then Stalin...

Just out of curiosity, and since I am part Indian and am a minor student of history, could you please tell me what books you have read that claim "100 millions of indians died as a result of genocide"?

I am really curious about this factoid that I have missed in 40 years of studying that side of my family tree. I was unaware that there ever were 100s of millions of Indians TO be killed.

If you would please give those citations I would be grateful

[427]

Originally Posted by Ringo S.

You know, I read somewhere , that 100 millions of africans died as result of slave trade, and 100 millions of indians died as result of genocide... Must be true... Cos'... you know...it's in the books. That means that US killed twice more people, then Stalin...

Another strawman. You claim the numbers posted about Communism are moronic - What do your posted numbers about indians and slaves say about you?

You also make the claim that I'm ignorant about Russian history, perhaps you could show us how superior your historical knowledge is buy answering how many died as a result of the Stalinism you're so nostalgic for?

It's as simple question for someone who knows Russian history as well as you claim.

[Ringo S.]

Originally Posted by countrygun

I am really curious about this factoid that I have missed in 40 years of studying that side of my family tree. I was unaware that there ever were 100s of millions of Indians TO be killed.

If you would please give those citations I would be grateful

Right after you give me meaningful citation about 100 of millions killed by Stalin. I think 100 millions of killed indians\negroes and 100 millions of killed by Stalin have similar source - politically motivated lies and propaganda. Stalin's Russia became world power, so he must be descredited. On the other side, US is opponent in "Cold war", so it must be shown as bad country.
So, in reality, all the REAL guilt of Stalin in the eyes of the West, he dare to made Russia into power, that had to be respected. "That's all, folks!" (c)

[427]

Originally Posted by Ringo S.

Right after you give me meaningful citation about 100 of millions killed by Stalin. I think 100 millions of killed indians\negroes and 100 millions of killed by Stalin have similar source - politically motivated lies and propaganda. Stalin's Russia became world power, so he must be descredited. On the other side, US is opponent in "Cold war", so it must be shown as bad country.
So, in reality, all the REAL guilt of Stalin in the eyes of the West, he dare to made Russia into power, that had to be respected. "That's all, folks!" (c)

[countrygun]

Originally Posted by Ringo S.

Right after you give me meaningful citation about 100 of millions killed by Stalin. I think 100 millions of killed indians\negroes and 100 millions of killed by Stalin have similar source - politically motivated lies and propaganda. Stalin's Russia became world power, so he must be descredited. On the other side, US is opponent in "Cold war", so it must be shown as bad country.
So, in reality, all the REAL guilt of Stalin in the eyes of the West, he dare to made Russia into power, that had to be respected. "That's all, folks!" (c)

Here are four citations.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge

http://gendercide.org/case_stalin.html

http://suite101.com/article/stalins_purges-a75511

http://www.russiansabroad.com/russian_history_63.html



Now please show me a citaton to back up your claims of a "100 million indians" please?

Show me a link to a source that supports you claim of even anyone saying that, much less proving it.

[expatman]

Originally Posted by countrygun

Here are four citations.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge

http://gendercide.org/case_stalin.html

http://suite101.com/article/stalins_purges-a75511

http://www.russiansabroad.com/russian_history_63.html



Now please show me a citaton to back up your claims of a "100 million indians" please?

Show me a link to a source that supports you claim of even anyone saying that, much less proving it.

LOL!!

He can't.

He knows he can't.

We know he can't.

That's all folks!

[427]

Originally Posted by countrygun

Here are four citations.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Purge

http://gendercide.org/case_stalin.html

http://suite101.com/article/stalins_purges-a75511

http://www.russiansabroad.com/russian_history_63.html



Now please show me a citaton to back up your claims of a "100 million indians" please?

Show me a link to a source that supports you claim of even anyone saying that, much less proving it.

Don't forget the famines.

Aftermath of a Soviet Famine
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...042602039.html

Seven million died in the 'forgotten' holocaust
http://www.ukemonde.com/genocide/margolisholocaust.html

Famine in Russia: the hidden horrors of 1921
http://www.icrc.org/eng/resources/do...isc/5rfhjy.htm

[nraman]

Originally Posted by IndianaMatt

Like we had McCarthyism in the 50s,

I suppose you never heard of the Venona Project and what they found.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._Venona_papers

Tailgunner Joe, a true American hero, was destroyed by the Leftist Press because he was right.
McCarthyism means being a great American unless the term is used by the Press.
IMO, Joe being Hoover's friend knew what was going on and Joe couldn't give all the information that would surely compromise the Venona Project.
Besides, he took the blame for everything that was going on. No, he was not a member of the House Committee on Un-American Activities, he was a Senator, he couldn't be a member of a House Committee.
Great guy!

[Ringo S.]

Originally Posted by countrygun

Now please show me a citaton to back up your claims of a "100 million indians" please?.

http://uwpress.wisc.edu/books/0289.htm
"...Research by some scholars provides population estimates of the pre-contact Americas to be as high as 112 million in 1492....In any case, the native population declined to less than 6 million by 1650..."

http://www.thelawkeepers.org/gifford.htm
"...Slave after Slave, too, suffered but lived through dreadful and miserable centuries watching their children and grandchildren be sold into slavery time and time again and wept and pleaded to no avail for compassion from their Slave Masters. As many as 100 million Blacks died in the Transatlantic/African Slave Trade..."
- - -
You see, I can bring any kind of 'accurate" information from the WWW too... there's a lot of stuff floating around in there.
And of course, you sources are all true and mine are all lies.

[fortyofforty]

Originally Posted by Ringo S.

http://uwpress.wisc.edu/books/0289.htm
"...Research by some scholars provides population estimates of the pre-contact Americas to be as high as 112 million in 1492....In any case, the native population declined to less than six million by 1650..."


- - -
You see, I can bring any kind of 'accurate" information from the WWW too... there's a lot of stuff floating around in there.
And of course, you sources are all true and mine are all lies.

Forgetting something, aren't we"

Research by some scholars provides population estimates of the pre-contact Americas to be as high as 112 million in 1492, while others estimate the population to have been as low as eight million. In any case, the native population declined to less than six million by 1650.

Well, maybe you just made an honest mistake in your editing. Sure. How very Stalinist of you.

[GAFinch]

Originally Posted by Ringo S.

http://uwpress.wisc.edu/books/0289.htm
"...Research by some scholars provides population estimates of the pre-contact Americas to be as high as 112 million in 1492....In any case, the native population declined to less than 6 million by 1650..."

European colonies in the U.S. got going in the late 1600's and we didn't spread out west until the 1700's and 1800's. Assuming that the 100 million people estimate is correct, the same researchers said that 90% of Native Americans died from diseases accidentally spread by European explorers, not from warfare or genocide.

[427]

Originally Posted by Ringo S.

http://uwpress.wisc.edu/books/0289.htm
"...Research by some scholars provides population estimates of the pre-contact Americas to be as high as 112 million in 1492....In any case, the native population declined to less than 6 million by 1650..."

You do realize that in 1650 the United States didn't exist as a Nation until 1776, right? You also know what the Spanish did in the New World, right?

Originally Posted by Ringo S.

http://www.thelawkeepers.org/gifford.htm
"...Slave after Slave, too, suffered but lived through dreadful and miserable centuries watching their children and grandchildren be sold into slavery time and time again and wept and pleaded to no avail for compassion from their Slave Masters. As many as 100 million Blacks died in the Transatlantic/African Slave Trade..."

You understand that Europeans like the Brits, Dutch, Spanish, Portuguese, and the French were the one's engaged tin the slave trade and transport on the African side. Other Africans were involved in selling of their own people. North America was NOT the only destination.
- - -

Originally Posted by Ringo S.

You see, I can bring any kind of 'accurate" information from the WWW too... there's a lot of stuff floating around in there.
And of course, you sources are all true and mine are all lies.

Nice try, but another failure.

Still haven't answered the question of how many died as a result of Stalinism.