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Old 09-24-2012, 17:25   #1
Glock Man_G19
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America's Deadliest And Poorest City Set To Disband Its Entire Police Force

This is only the beginning. Cuts at some point will happen and this is what you can expect in the future imo.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-0...-budget-crisis
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Old 09-24-2012, 17:38   #2
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Wow...
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Old 09-24-2012, 18:39   #3
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different response

I don't know how the article relates to this forum except to suggest that you "get out of Dodge" before shtf.

Many communities, counties, states and even the federal government have extensive unfunded or underfunded future retirement liabilities to current and former employees. A politician doesn't get elected without promising a job, hope, and a place in the lifeboat.

I used to go hunting in Mexico with an old timer who went to work in the Depression. He sold insurance. We discussed (and this was 20 years ago) the future consequences of taking actuarially sound social security reserves and using them to fund new federal government programs. (The federal government just simply gave a bond or IOU to social security for the borrowings). Now the people are retiring and there isn't the reserves. This is no surprise.

It is no surprise that civil service employee unions garnered control of local communities and schools and gave generous retirement benefits without concern for future funding.

Now, the chickens come how to roost.

Either last year or this year some guy laughed at California and its underfunded civil service liabilities. The guy was like from Nebraska or Montana. So, I went and demonstrated that the 5 top underfunded civil service retirements in the guy's state worked out to $17,000 for every man, woman and child.

So, if the purpose of the posting is to suggest that you can simply pack up, leave the area, and not deal with the underfunding problems, you aren't going to find any area in the country without severe underfunding problems.

Stay tuned. California has some major municipal bankruptcies coming up. I explain. If a municipal bond is secured by assets, then the bond holder has priority and gets the asset value in the bankruptcy court. There is no express provision in the bankruptcy code that a retiree gets preference in payment of a pension in bankruptcy.

Watch Oakland. Some of its unsecured bonds were insured. The insurers do not want to take a multimillion dollar hit alone. They want it spread among the retirees as well. If this happens, watch Los Angeles declare bk and wipe out its current debt as well. It will be like falling dominoes.
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Old 09-24-2012, 19:49   #4
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Open carry would help this.
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Old 09-24-2012, 20:19   #5
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Originally Posted by bdcochran View Post
Either last year or this year some guy laughed at California and its underfunded civil service liabilities. The guy was like from Nebraska or Montana. So, I went and demonstrated that the 5 top underfunded civil service retirements in the guy's state worked out to $17,000 for every man, woman and child.

So, if the purpose of the posting is to suggest that you can simply pack up, leave the area, and not deal with the underfunding problems, you aren't going to find any area in the country without severe underfunding problems.
I think that we are funded here in Florida. You can tell me if we are not.
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Old 09-24-2012, 22:31   #6
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Welcome to the "CHANGE" everyone asked for.
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Old 09-24-2012, 22:35   #7
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When Chrysler and GM were on the ropes, they went through an Obamaruptcy. The unions got their pensions and much of the companies, the bondholders got baths. Think California and other government employee unions won't get similar preferential treatment?
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Old 09-24-2012, 22:46   #8
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Open carry would help this.
Yeah, but a CCW'er would have prevented the whole thing in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by railfancwb View Post
When Chrysler and GM were on the ropes, they went through an Obamaruptcy. The unions got their pensions and much of the companies, the bondholders got baths. Think California and other government employee unions won't get similar preferential treatment?
Only if the dems see an election win in this and then they will come running in to do a bail out.
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Old 09-24-2012, 23:01   #9
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Ok - for Uneasy Rider

The answer in Florida, until 2009, was yes, according to actuarial studies. But when the investment markets collapsed as part of the recession, Florida's pension assets went with them. The state pension system reported nearly a $17.5 billion unfunded liability in 2009 ($118.9 billion in assets versus $136.4 billion in liabilities) and nearly an $18.8 billion unfunded liability in 2010 ($120.9 billion in assets versus $139.7 billion in liabilities).

As a percentage, that means the pension fund can currently cover about 87 percent of its obligations.

The underfunding problem is not confined to just Florida's plan. Joshua Rauh, a Northwestern University economist and one of the leading critics of state-run pension plans, argued in a controversial paper that many state plans were on a path to running out of money. The 2010 paper said that without reform, state retirement plans would start running out of money in 2018. Only five states would never run out of money, Rauh estimated, including Florida.

To some, the underfunding of Florida's pension system sounds worse than it is. The size of the pension fund fluctuates based on the result of the investments the state makes with the money through the State Board of Administration. And the money will be paid out over a long period of time as employees retire and start collecting benefits. That means the state has 20 to 30 years or more to fill that gap.

Industry experts say that a government pension plan is considered well-funded if it can meet 80 percent of its obligations, and Florida has been considered one of the best funded government pension programs in the nation. But some economists disagree with the 80 percent funding level, noting that government plan funding levels are measured expecting an 8 percent annual return on investments, and that isn't always possible. Florida bases its projections on an assumed 7.75 percent return.

Uneasy Rider- Is Florida earning 7.75 return on investment now?
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Old 09-24-2012, 23:23   #10
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Ok Uneasy Rider - here is the review for local gov.

1 of 3 Florida municipal pension funds gets D or F for underfunding
By Rob Kozlowski | November 11, 2011 12:26 pm

Comments

Nearly one-third of Florida municipal pension plans grade out as a D or F for their funding ratio, according to a report card released by the public policy organization LeRoy Collins Institute.

Related Content

“Report Card: Florida Municipal Pension Plans” grades 208 municipal defined benefit plans throughout Florida based on funding levels and costs. Plans that were more than 90% funded received an A; 80% to 90% funded, a B; 70% to 80%, a C; 60% to 70% a D; and below 60%, an F.

Of the 208 plans, 30 received an A, with the $11 million Plantation (Fla.) Volunteer Firefighters’ Retirement Plan leading the way with a funding ratio of 130.3%.

There were 31 plans with failing grades, with the $1.6 million Cooper City (Fla.) Municipal Pension Trust Fund with the lowest funding ratio, 35.5%.

The full report is available at Florida State University's website.

Federal funding is different than state government funding and state government funding is different than your local municipality's funding.
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Old 09-25-2012, 05:23   #11
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Response to question about Chyrsler and GM

When a company is in bankruptcy, it can borrow and apply money with the approval of the Court. If a lender wants to set terms on the use of the money and the Court approves, that is how things will go.

Well, the US "loaned" money to both companies and set the terms. Do you think that the terms of the loans specified that bond holders would be treated the same as the unions on the application of the funds? And, the money did not go to non union pensions. Isn't that questionable?
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:25   #12
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Originally Posted by bdcochran View Post

So, if the purpose of the posting is to suggest that you can simply pack up, leave the area, and not deal with the underfunding problems, you aren't going to find any area in the country without severe underfunding problems.
I doubt if 5% of the various, governments (state, county, city etc) in the USA are solvent. . .
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Old 09-25-2012, 12:49   #13
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Kind of misleading headlines. They are not doing away with police protection, they are simply going to contract it out to the county sheriff who will hire about half the current guys. They did this in a city near me and it has worked out well. The county was better trained, better equipped, more efficient and less corrupt than the city force. The city gets better police protection than they did before for the same cost.
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Old 09-25-2012, 15:03   #14
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The Florida Pension Plan that my wife is in is a State of Forida retirement fund pension. The school board sends a check twice a month to pay for her pension. I hope that it's worth something in 4 years.
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Old 09-25-2012, 15:17   #15
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Its actually happened before in Camden. The world will not end. Just like last time, the NJ State Troopers will come in and take over

Crime actually went down in Camden the last time the Troopers came.
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Old 09-25-2012, 15:34   #16
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The big factories that once made Camden an industrial boomtown have been gone for a generation.
Come back to ANY city in a decade and you'll see this repeated.

We have allowed China to deindustrialize this country without firing a single shot. (It took years of heavy bombing to do that to Germany in WWII.)

What are all these people supposed to do? Even people with (useful) college degrees have been in a tight job market for a decade. Not everyone is going to be a rocket scientist -- even NASA is slowly closing down!

Dark days ahead friends. My grandparents wouldn't recognize the country my grandkids will inherit.
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Old 09-25-2012, 16:20   #17
lawman800
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even NASA is slowly closing down!
Have them claim to be Muslims and go get a job under Obama's apology tour where he is pushing NASA to share everything with Muslim countries because it's our fault we left them behind.
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Old 09-25-2012, 23:14   #18
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Open carry would help this.
Open carry and castration for criminals would help. Have you ever seen a neutered dog..all he does is sleep and eat..might help.
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Old 09-26-2012, 02:09   #19
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I just pray that when the collapse happens, we rid ourselves of the criminals and entitlement crowds who have caused this mess. You can't keep getting free stuff. Eventually, the bill must be paid and I am tired of shouldering my share for people who are too lazy to support themselves or think they are getting over by getting stuff for free because the future isn't important to them, just today.
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Old 09-29-2012, 22:05   #20
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What exactly does underfunded mean?

Not enough to pay monthly pensions?
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