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Old 10-03-2012, 08:05   #21
MrMurphy
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Still helps to keep things as close as possible.....one reason why the lower end of a SCAR is basically an AR. Other than a different bolt location, most of the user-end bits are the same.

Same reason why the sight picture for irons used by the US military has not effectively changed since 1936. M1, M1 carbine, M14, to some degree the Thompson and M3 (still aperature sights) the M16, M16A1, A2, A4 and M4 along with the M249 and M240 and AT-4 all use the same iron sight picture.

The M249 and M240 (same manufacturer) keep the bolt handle and safety in the same location for the same reason.
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Old 10-03-2012, 08:14   #22
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Being familiar with a given platform is critical, when the defecation hits the rotary oscillator.

You (meaning anyone) react to how you were trained. Good or bad.

I know of one officer that was killed in the line of duty.
When he was found, his revolver was in his left hand, cupping the open cylinder, and his right hand was in his left shirt pocket.

Why?????

When the investigation was over, it was explained that when on the range, he'd drop his empties into his shirt pocket.

When he died, he was apparently dropping his spent cartridge cases into his pocket. (There were 5 empties in his pocket, and one on the ground.)


The ultimate bottom line. . . . you will react in the way you were trained. Good. Bad. However.
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Old 10-03-2012, 09:00   #23
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One never rises to the occasion, one falls to their level of training. Can't recall who said that, but its generally true enough.
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Old 10-03-2012, 09:07   #24
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Ive seen some say they wouldnt buy something like a PPQ due to the mag release and they'd completely have to relearn compared to a button.

Fair enough I suppose.

Couldnt the same be said for other weapons though? If you regularly train with a rifle and a pump shotgun, couldnt you accindentally try to pump your AR, or swap the mag from your 870?

Then you try out an AK, and the safety is in a completely different spot than both of those.

Not trying to debate anyone, just understand the logic. Im also home sick and bored today, and have always wondered how these concerns would be dealt with on other weapons.

How much do these things really matter?
I grew up shooting an 870 Wingmaster. I can operate it with my eyes closed and it's 35 years later. That is why I bought an 870 HD . No time wasted in an emergency situation....................... DOC
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Old 10-03-2012, 10:52   #25
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Shot regular auto pistols, then switch to a P7.
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Old 10-03-2012, 11:07   #26
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I appreciate everyones input.

In reading the replies, I think a lot of this is going to have to do with occupation and specific needs. The needs for military and LEO may have a big impact on this topic compared to the rest of us.

As someone else stated, all my pistols are point and shoot -- no manual safety. I also don't forsee carrying an extra mag anytime soon. I rarely shoot rifles or shotguns, and have no desire to hunt.

That said, unless the zombies attack, and one weapon becomes inoperable in the middle of it for some reason, I dont know how much something like the PPQ mag release would effect me. Still dont know that I'll have it forever, but dont know that this would make me (personally, based on my needs) get rid of it.

Thanks again!
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Old 10-03-2012, 11:28   #27
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I own many different style pistols with different features,and no it does not bother me if I like the rest of the pistol. I'm still adaptable and teachable.
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Old 10-03-2012, 12:33   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfr View Post
Ive seen some say they wouldnt buy something like a PPQ due to the mag release and they'd completely have to relearn compared to a button.

Fair enough I suppose.

Couldnt the same be said for other weapons though? If you regularly train with a rifle and a pump shotgun, couldnt you accindentally try to pump your AR, or swap the mag from your 870?

Then you try out an AK, and the safety is in a completely different spot than both of those.

Not trying to debate anyone, just understand the logic. Im also home sick and bored today, and have always wondered how these concerns would be dealt with on other weapons.

How much do these things really matter?
I guess you never really explained the circumstances of use (HD, SD, hunting or pleasure shooting) or range time with other weapons, disregard my previous answer............... DOC
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Old 10-03-2012, 14:14   #29
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I guess you never really explained the circumstances of use (HD, SD, hunting or pleasure shooting) or range time with other weapons, disregard my previous answer............... DOC
Agreed -- I really didnt even consider it until I started reading the replies.
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Old 10-03-2012, 14:30   #30
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I only carry one of two CCW guns. Both are double action and striker fired. Neither has a safety to switch off.

I do not try to add or change the manual of arms I am already familiar with, on my carry weapons.

I am constantly aware that you revert to old habits.

Rarely, when I am driving, I find I get to speed and then release the gas pedal, only to press it again----- Just like I used to do in the first automobile I learned to drive---a 1942 Packard that you had to do this to, in order to shift into overdrive. I am well aware of muscle memory and the problems it can bring up with something new. I don't like to change to different procedures in carry weapons.

Always...pull the trigger and it goes bang. Nothing else.
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Old 10-03-2012, 14:42   #31
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Agreed -- I really didnt even consider it until I started reading the replies.
no harm, no foul...............DOC
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Old 10-03-2012, 14:46   #32
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We own two cars in my family - one with the gear selector down on the center console, the other is on the steering column.

I drive both cars regularly and often find myself absent-mindedly reaching for the gear selector in the wrong place. When I drive an unfamiliar car, I am totally lost until I figure out where stuff is.

Familiarity is important, but mistakes can still be made when you don't think at all.
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Old 10-03-2012, 17:32   #33
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Pretty much all was said already, so I'm going to take a shortcut and say:


YES


















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Old 10-03-2012, 17:43   #34
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Yes. I've learned to hate the safety on my Kimber Solo Carry 9.
Having said that, I do really like the Walther mag release. In my opinion, it's far superior to the thumb activated one of the Glock, etc. etc. etc. etc.
Either index finger, if it reaches, or both, or thumb only, it's the best mag release...in my opinion.

But a manual safety, either slide mounted or frame mounted, is an abomination, again, in my opinion. Unless it's a 1911, when cocked and locked requires it...in my opinion.

So, to sum up...this is my opinion.
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Old 10-04-2012, 03:26   #35
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Quote:
Does weapon familiarity really matter that much?
In short, Yes it does!


You would be suprised to find out what you would do under stress. Training until something is muscle memory can really save your arse since it's more than likely what you will revert back to if SHTF.
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:02   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janice6 View Post
I only carry one of two CCW guns. Both are double action and striker fired. Neither has a safety to switch off.
Same here, although at some point I may end up with four DAO striker-fired pistols before paring back on one or two.

Quote:
I do not try to add or change the manual of arms I am already familiar with, on my carry weapons.
I currently own a pocket hammer-fired 9mm I plan on trading for another CCW DAO striker-fired pistol for this very reason.

Quote:
Always...pull the trigger and it goes bang. Nothing else.
Absolutely. There's no substitution for this first rule of self-defense, the total reliability of the gun/ammo combination.
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Old 10-05-2012, 13:14   #37
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Beware the man with only one gun, he probably knows how to use it very, very, well.

Last edited by cowboy1964; 10-05-2012 at 13:15..
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Old 10-05-2012, 21:06   #38
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I think it does matter. At least for me.
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Old 10-05-2012, 21:26   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfr View Post
Ive seen some say they wouldnt buy something like a PPQ due to the mag release and they'd completely have to relearn compared to a button.

Fair enough I suppose.

Couldnt the same be said for other weapons though? If you regularly train with a rifle and a pump shotgun, couldnt you accindentally try to pump your AR, or swap the mag from your 870?

Then you try out an AK, and the safety is in a completely different spot than both of those.

Not trying to debate anyone, just understand the logic. Im also home sick and bored today, and have always wondered how these concerns would be dealt with on other weapons.

How much do these things really matter?
Does weapon familiarity really matter that much?
It's a simple question. The simple answer is yes it does.
If you need to use that weapon in a life and death, self defense, situation.
It really needs to be natural and automatic to be effective.
Whether it's a handgun, rifle, knife or my fist - it needs to it hit all by itself.

Particularly if you don't train much.
Staying with weapons that operate in a common manner just makes sense.
If you train a lot, you can develop proficiency with a variety of weapons that operate in different ways.

Say you practice endlessly playing the electric guitar and the violin and can play both effortlessly.
You're not going to confuse the two.

All my handguns don't have safeties.
But revolver or auto? DA/SA, DOA, striker, LEM - whatever.
With enough range time it's no problemo.
At least for me...

Last edited by barth; 10-05-2012 at 21:29..
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Old 10-06-2012, 08:09   #40
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So if someone wanted to have pistols with different mag releases, how would this be trained? Equal time with both systems is my only thought, but I'm curious to know what others think as well.

I know some wouldn't even attempt it, which is fine, and I'm certainly not going to try and convince anyone.

But what about those of us that want to?
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