GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-02-2012, 09:20   #1
cfr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pittsburgh, PA.
Posts: 826
Does weapon familiarity really matter that much?

Ive seen some say they wouldnt buy something like a PPQ due to the mag release and they'd completely have to relearn compared to a button.

Fair enough I suppose.

Couldnt the same be said for other weapons though? If you regularly train with a rifle and a pump shotgun, couldnt you accindentally try to pump your AR, or swap the mag from your 870?

Then you try out an AK, and the safety is in a completely different spot than both of those.

Not trying to debate anyone, just understand the logic. Im also home sick and bored today, and have always wondered how these concerns would be dealt with on other weapons.

How much do these things really matter?
cfr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 09:27   #2
deputy tom
Senior Member
 
deputy tom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: western PA
Posts: 7,574
I believe to some extent it does. I have found myself trying to thumb off a safety on my Glock in the past.tom.
__________________
N.R.A. LIFE MEMBER

SPES MEA IN DEO EST

Thig crioch air an t-saoghal ach mairidh gaol agus ceňl The world will come to an end but music and love will endure
deputy tom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 09:29   #3
Slackinoff
Senior Member
 
Slackinoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 441
I have never tried to pump my semi auto shotgun or "drop a mag" from a wheel gun. I don't even have to think about it. BUT, I have never used a gun to save my/another life. Who knows until you have experienced that kind of pressure?

Sorry you are homesick cfr....that's a miserable feeling.
__________________
It's what people know about themselves inside that makes 'em afraid. -The Stranger-
Slackinoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 09:33   #4
X-Centric
Senior Member
 
X-Centric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lee County, SW Florida
Posts: 189
I think if you're familiar with all your guns and use them enough the muscle memory will keep you functioning okay. I carry either a Glock 19, SR9C or LCR and feel familiar with all of them. But practicing with them all is key.
__________________
Be an optimist but expect the worst and you'll never be disappointed!

If you don't believe in God believe in Karma!

You can call me Al.
X-Centric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 09:37   #5
Slackinoff
Senior Member
 
Slackinoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 441
Everyone is different and that's ok, understand how you learn/deal with things and make your own choices.
__________________
It's what people know about themselves inside that makes 'em afraid. -The Stranger-

Last edited by Slackinoff; 10-02-2012 at 09:38..
Slackinoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 10:22   #6
cfr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pittsburgh, PA.
Posts: 826
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slackinoff View Post
Sorry you are homesick cfr....that's a miserable feeling.
Thanks.
cfr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 10:30   #7
SGT HATRED
Senior Member
 
SGT HATRED's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: PHX AZ
Posts: 2,942
I carry a double action revolver glock, sig sauer and a kahr, no safeties on any just point and shoot. No spare mags so no reloading either. I feel quite comfortable even though I sometimes carry different pistols.

Last edited by SGT HATRED; 10-02-2012 at 10:31..
SGT HATRED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 10:40   #8
ReyFufuRulesAll
Pantless Wonder
 
ReyFufuRulesAll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Suamico, Wisconsin
Posts: 8,141
Send a message via ICQ to ReyFufuRulesAll Send a message via AIM to ReyFufuRulesAll Send a message via MSN to ReyFufuRulesAll Send a message via Yahoo to ReyFufuRulesAll


For me it happens only rarely and when the guns feel similar; i used to try and pump my semi-auto shottie when i first switched to it from my Sears Browning, and i caught myself lately trying to hit the slide release on my PPK.
__________________
"Don't bring a knife to a chainsaw fight."-Fear Night
"I have more important things to do than wear pants."-my lil' bro

Anything you can't do pantless, isn't worth doing.
ReyFufuRulesAll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 10:42   #9
mjkeat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,450
I think familiarity is extremely important. Someone touched on it earlier. Under stress the mind and body do funny things. I still make mistakes at classes. I've grabbed for a pistol mag to reload an AR and just recently scanned while having my pistol extended toward the target instead of bringing it to the high ready. I spend a decent amount of time on the range and in classes. It's extremely embarrassing. My point is you want to be familiar to the point you don't have to think. Especially if you're "special" like me.
mjkeat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 11:05   #10
1gewehr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mid TN
Posts: 1,374
It depends on the situation. I've seen deer hunters miss a perfect shot because they had a new rifle with a slightly different safety. But that was not life-threatening.

A friend on a SWAT team used to laugh about a buddy without any military experience who was a dead shot with his MP-5. When they transitioned to M4's, he took weeks to re-learn a simple mag change. And still sometimes bobbled it for a LONG time afterwards. I've heard stories of the reverse as well; folks who knew M-16s like a part of their body and cursed the MP-5 when the bolt didn't stay open and they had to lock the bolt open BEFORE inserting a new mag.

I limit my platforms for serious use. Either an AR-style or the FN-FAL. They are different enough and I have enough hands-on time with them that I can do mag changes and all other operations automatically with either. Same for the 1911 or CZ-75. I used to hunt with the Savage 99, but I'll probably retire it in favor of my 6.5 Grendel AR.
1gewehr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 11:30   #11
Bruce M
Senior Member
 
Bruce M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: S FL
Posts: 20,060
Sorry you are homesick.





Quote:
Originally Posted by deputy tom View Post
I believe to some extent it does. I have found myself trying to thumb off a safety on my Glock in the past.tom.
I have also tried to push a nonexistent safety down with my thumb a few times over the years. Fortunately I have never had the issue of forgetting a thumb safety when it was there and now it would only be an issue at the range.
__________________
Bruce
I never talked to anyone who had to fire their gun who said "I wished I had the smaller gun and fewer rounds with me" Just because you find a hundred people who agree with you on the internet does not mean you're right.
Bruce M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 13:09   #12
DWARREN123
Grumpy Old Guy
 
DWARREN123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: CLARKSVILLE TN
Posts: 3,933
In times of stress and SHTF yes it does.
__________________
Have a Nice Day
DWARREN123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 16:52   #13
Deaf Smith
Senior Member
 
Deaf Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Texican in Texas (where else?)
Posts: 8,991
Quote:
Does weapon familiarity really matter that much?
When it's 2 AM, raining, in the mud, with people trying to kill you, YES it matters.

The more familiar you are the better you will handle the weapon under pressure. And that familiarity includes SHOOTING STRAIT and FAST.

Deaf
__________________
“We can evade reality, but we cannot evade the consequences of evading reality” Ayn Rand
Deaf Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 16:58   #14
MrMurphy
Head Sheepdog
 
MrMurphy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Buried in the X-files
Posts: 31,641
Very definitely.

I've spent a large chunk of my life on the M16 platform, which is why i won't move off to anything else.

Seen my dad (two wars with the M16) keep squeezing the trigger on an 870 (which he's also carried during the Gulf War, but never ended up firing) during a match till it clicked that he was not firing an M16, and remembered to pump. That split second hesistation happened on every shot for the first string, after that, it kicked back in and he remembered what to do.

He hasn't carried a 1911 in nearly 20 years, but carried one from 1966-1991 in the military. His hands remember what to do, even when his brain occasionally forgets.
__________________
"And Shepherds we shall be. For thee, my Lord for thee. Power hath descended forth from thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out thy command. So we shall flow a river forth to thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be. In nomine Patris, et fili, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen."
MrMurphy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 19:50   #15
Deaf Smith
Senior Member
 
Deaf Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Texican in Texas (where else?)
Posts: 8,991
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMurphy View Post
Very definitely.

I've spent a large chunk of my life on the M16 platform, which is why i won't move off to anything else.

Seen my dad (two wars with the M16) keep squeezing the trigger on an 870 (which he's also carried during the Gulf War, but never ended up firing) during a match till it clicked that he was not firing an M16, and remembered to pump. That split second hesistation happened on every shot for the first string, after that, it kicked back in and he remembered what to do.

He hasn't carried a 1911 in nearly 20 years, but carried one from 1966-1991 in the military. His hands remember what to do, even when his brain occasionally forgets.
And that is why WWII vets swear by the Garand and WWI vets felt the '03 was the only true battle rifle.

Use something for 20 years and, hey, you know the system so well you can compensate for any faults it has. And that is the key, skill with your weapon. It does not have to be fancy... you just have to be good.

Deaf
__________________
“We can evade reality, but we cannot evade the consequences of evading reality” Ayn Rand
Deaf Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 20:19   #16
silverado_mick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,261
Send a message via Yahoo to silverado_mick
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMurphy View Post

Seen my dad (two wars with the M16) keep squeezing the trigger on an 870 (which he's also carried during the Gulf War, but never ended up firing) during a match till it clicked that he was not firing an M16, and remembered to pump.
First deer season at home after two tours in Iraq. I dd the exact same thing your Dad did after I missed a running doe with my 7mm. Instead of working the bolt I just reacquainted the target and tried to squeeze another round off. Took me reaching up with my off hand to begin an immediate action drill to realize that there was no magazine to tap and that if I'd just work the bolt and chamber a fresh round I could fire again. By that time the doe was long gone, and I was pretty amused with myself.
__________________
Semper Fi
silverado_mick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 03:41   #17
Lior
GUNS=FREEDOM
 
Lior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Israel
Posts: 5,783


Yes.

The most stressful shooting experiences most us will have will be in competition, and there, familiarity with one's guns really pays off.
For semiauto pistols, having a good grip and recoil control is a big deal, and a lot of it depends on nuances such as where the safety and other controls are mounted, the thickness of the gun's arsepart and trigger morphology. Getting mixed up between guns that may be superficially similar costs you a lot in competition. To wit, last night I trained on some stages with my SP01 Shadow and SP01 Phantom, and despite being the same size and shape these two shooters require completely different grip methods, despite being compatible vis-a-vis rigs, mags, ammo, bells and whistles.

For rifles, I don't have much experience, but I was brought up on M16s and Galils, and had no major problem with either platform in killing paper targets. The first time I held and shot an AK47 I felt intimately familiar with it immediately. These experience relate to basically stock guns without any aiming devices hanging off them - familiarity with these is certainly something that does not want to learn for the first time in a gunfight.

So yeah, if you are carrying a gun for an unimportant reason such as protecting your life and that of others dear to you, or for a crucial reason such as competing, it is good to be familiar with its nuances and not get mixed up when split seconds count.
__________________
Rust and bureaucrats. Freedom and vigilance. Front sight and trigger. Kindness and firepower. Situational awareness and tolerance. Safety and concealment. Taxes and allegiance. Love of man and surgical marksmanship. Once a soldier, always a soldier.
Lior is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 07:33   #18
FullClip
CLM Number 171
NRA Benefactor
 
FullClip's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: On The Lake in The Maine Woods
Posts: 6,147


Not as stressful as combat situations, but I'm so used to my Red Label shotguns that I use for partridge, that when I swap to my Benelli for ducks and geese I have problems. I always try to find the safety on the tang rather than the cross-bolt, and sometimes I've only taken two shots and gave up, forgetting I had another one available with the semi-auto. Not only embarrassing, but potentially dangerous.
Yeah, I think that being familiar with the weapon makes a big difference, especially if you have one type that most operations are done by reflex.
__________________
Quando omni flunkus moritati
FullClip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 07:50   #19
Bren
NRA Life Member
 
Bren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 33,439
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfr View Post
How much do these things really matter?
If you are fairly new to guns or haven't had much training and experience, it could matter a lot.

The more training and experience you get with a wide variety of guns, the less it matters. After almost 30 years of formal training and shooting, it doesn't make a big difference to me, but if I switch from a Glock to a 1911 and then go shoot it under competition pressure, I still have to think about the safety some to make the switch.
__________________
If you are not an NRA member, you are not involved in gun rights, so sit down and shut the +%@# up.

Last edited by Bren; 10-03-2012 at 09:26..
Bren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 07:56   #20
fnfalman
Chicks Dig It
 
fnfalman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: California & New Mexico, US
Posts: 54,774


A soldier may carry his/her rifle as the primary weapon but still has to know at least three other weapon systems.

If you can't get used to a mag release in a different place or a slide stop in a different place, then you need to hit the range for some more practice.
__________________
Can you dig it?
fnfalman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 08:05   #21
MrMurphy
Head Sheepdog
 
MrMurphy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Buried in the X-files
Posts: 31,641
Still helps to keep things as close as possible.....one reason why the lower end of a SCAR is basically an AR. Other than a different bolt location, most of the user-end bits are the same.

Same reason why the sight picture for irons used by the US military has not effectively changed since 1936. M1, M1 carbine, M14, to some degree the Thompson and M3 (still aperature sights) the M16, M16A1, A2, A4 and M4 along with the M249 and M240 and AT-4 all use the same iron sight picture.

The M249 and M240 (same manufacturer) keep the bolt handle and safety in the same location for the same reason.
__________________
"And Shepherds we shall be. For thee, my Lord for thee. Power hath descended forth from thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out thy command. So we shall flow a river forth to thee and teeming with souls shall it ever be. In nomine Patris, et fili, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen."
MrMurphy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 08:14   #22
byf43
NRA Life Member
 
byf43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Southern Maryland
Posts: 13,308
Being familiar with a given platform is critical, when the defecation hits the rotary oscillator.

You (meaning anyone) react to how you were trained. Good or bad.

I know of one officer that was killed in the line of duty.
When he was found, his revolver was in his left hand, cupping the open cylinder, and his right hand was in his left shirt pocket.

Why?????

When the investigation was over, it was explained that when on the range, he'd drop his empties into his shirt pocket.

When he died, he was apparently dropping his spent cartridge cases into his pocket. (There were 5 empties in his pocket, and one on the ground.)


The ultimate bottom line. . . . you will react in the way you were trained. Good. Bad. However.
__________________
G21 Gen2; G19 Gen3; G30SF; G23 Gen3; G26 Gen4. GLOCK Certified Armorer

"Live Free. Practice democracy. Make a difference. Love your family and your country." H.N.K. (My Dad) 09/02/1924 - 05/11/2012

Last edited by byf43; 10-03-2012 at 08:16..
byf43 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 09:00   #23
silverado_mick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,261
Send a message via Yahoo to silverado_mick
One never rises to the occasion, one falls to their level of training. Can't recall who said that, but its generally true enough.
__________________
Semper Fi
silverado_mick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 09:07   #24
scccdoc
Senior Member
 
scccdoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfr View Post
Ive seen some say they wouldnt buy something like a PPQ due to the mag release and they'd completely have to relearn compared to a button.

Fair enough I suppose.

Couldnt the same be said for other weapons though? If you regularly train with a rifle and a pump shotgun, couldnt you accindentally try to pump your AR, or swap the mag from your 870?

Then you try out an AK, and the safety is in a completely different spot than both of those.

Not trying to debate anyone, just understand the logic. Im also home sick and bored today, and have always wondered how these concerns would be dealt with on other weapons.

How much do these things really matter?
I grew up shooting an 870 Wingmaster. I can operate it with my eyes closed and it's 35 years later. That is why I bought an 870 HD . No time wasted in an emergency situation....................... DOC
scccdoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2012, 10:52   #25
427
 
427's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: KUMSC
Posts: 7,000
Shot regular auto pistols, then switch to a P7.
__________________
Death twitches my ear. "Live," he says, "I am coming."
Virgil, Minor Poems

Enjoy yourself. It's later than you think.
427 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 19:40.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,414
440 Members
974 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42