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Old 10-07-2012, 16:17   #41
dkf
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Originally Posted by ABNAK View Post
Okay, finally got over to my buddy's and used his bullet puller. The DT 125gr miked at .351"!

I think we have the answer as to why it keyholed.

Kinda what I figured. Either the bullet was undersized from the factory or DT crimped the hell out of it. I would send the whole batch back. For what they charge for their ammo it should be 110%.
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Old 10-07-2012, 17:21   #42
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Okay, finally got over to my buddy's and used his bullet puller. The DT 125gr miked at .351"!

I think we have the answer as to why it keyholed.
not suprised.....he has had alot of issues with his ammo....i for one would not spend money on their ammo.....
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Old 10-08-2012, 15:27   #43
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Originally Posted by happyguy View Post
I'm not convinced the WWB wouldn't be a good self-defense load. I've never seen a legit gelatin test of this load and just about everyone knows water is very hard on a bullet.

As far a I'm concerned it is an unknown.

Regards,
Happyguy
Here is a picture of a 125gr GD (5 petal design, 1,350fps). The bullet was fired into wet mud on a creek bank from a G24 with a 6" LW barrel.

Click image for larger version

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I don't know what the speed is from the 6" barrel. If I had to guess I would say ~1,400-1,450fps, maybe a little more. I wonder what the 6 petal design would do.

I know shooting a clay creek bank is not a scientific test of a bullet. I am posting this for information only. Take it for what it is.
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Old 10-08-2012, 17:07   #44
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Originally Posted by ABNAK View Post
Okay, finally got over to my buddy's and used his bullet puller. The DT 125gr miked at .351"!

I think we have the answer as to why it keyholed.

Out of curiousity, did you mike only the base or farther up the bullet body as well? I ask with reason as perhaps DT is using some type of crimp setup that is squeezing down the bullet base as the .357 SIG is notorious for setback. Also, this might be a bullet vendor issue and DT does not know of it. Drop them a line.
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Old 10-08-2012, 19:07   #45
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Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo View Post
Out of curiousity, did you mike only the base or farther up the bullet body as well? I ask with reason as perhaps DT is using some type of crimp setup that is squeezing down the bullet base as the .357 SIG is notorious for setback. Also, this might be a bullet vendor issue and DT does not know of it. Drop them a line.
Okay, I just slid the micrometer (mine this time) up and down the bullet and it was a consistent .352" along it's length. There wasn't a discernable cannelure, just an indentation and then resumption of diameter on the upside. Kinda looked like a mushroom.

Bottom line? It's undersized.
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Old 10-08-2012, 20:48   #46
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Kinda sounds like double tap crimped the piss out of the round and deformed the bullet making it undersized. Overpriced garbage. Hope you are sending back what is left.

Last edited by dkf; 10-08-2012 at 20:49..
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Old 10-08-2012, 23:52   #47
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Sounds like a bullet maker issue and not at DT's feet. Call DT and let them know.
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:57   #48
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Okay, I just slid the micrometer (mine this time) up and down the bullet and it was a consistent .352" along it's length. There wasn't a discernable cannelure, just an indentation and then resumption of diameter on the upside. Kinda looked like a mushroom.

Bottom line? It's undersized.
.352? that is a millimeter too narrow. That is the cause of the tumbling for sure.
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Old 10-09-2012, 13:36   #49
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.352? that is a millimeter too narrow. That is the cause of the tumbling for sure.
It's .003" too narrow. Is that a millimeter?

ETA----looked it up and .039" is a millimeter, so it's far short of that. However, it appears to be more than enough to cause tumbling.
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Last edited by ABNAK; 10-09-2012 at 13:41..
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Old 10-09-2012, 13:53   #50
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Unfortunately, they're the only ones who don't water down the 357Sig to mid-1300's. It was designed to replicate the .357 Magnum in it's 125gr loading, and 1350+/- is quite a bit short of that.

But yeah, I'm done with DT.
Not really. Chrono some current manuf 125gr 357mag in a 4" rev, you'll belucky to get to 1350fps. Most of the factory 357sig gets to that in a 3.5"-4" pistol bbl. The bullet keyholing is obvious @ 0.352" dia. Completely unacceptable in a factory round.
I have handloaded the 125gr Sierra to 1400fps w/ 1 1/2" 50ft accuracy. So it's not the bullet.
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Old 10-09-2012, 14:31   #51
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UPDATE:

Called DT and spoke to the brother of Mike. Explained everything and had sent him an email with the hibachi pic in it which he read as he spoke to me. Admitted that they had trouble getting Sierra's and substituted Winchesters. He obviously wasn't happy with the keyhole issue. Offered to send me some more 357Sig in Gold Dots if I wanted, but being a bit jaded on that caliber I elected to get the 150gr Nosler .40 load (which I have some of and like for a compact gun like my Kahr P40). He will also include in with the ammo a shipping label for me to return the remaining 357Sig rounds. I told him I'd put the pulled bullet in there too.

This to me is satisfactory customer service and I told him it was appreciated and that I would purchase DT in the future.....just maybe not 357Sig!



FWIW the 150gr Nosler .40 load chrono'd at 1167fps average from my Walther PPS's 3.2" barrel. I suspect it'll break 1200fps from my P40's 3.5" tube. Don't have the chrono anymore though to confirm it (don't ask).
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Old 10-09-2012, 15:49   #52
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Happy ending.

On another note, just another nail in the coffin of Winchester's death spiraling QC.
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Old 10-09-2012, 18:29   #53
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Indeed

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Happy ending.

On another note, just another nail in the coffin of Winchester's death spiraling QC.
A happy ending to a long story . . . . .
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Old 11-01-2012, 13:19   #54
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Some anecdotal evidence to support the theory that the Winchester bullet is to blame:

I took my 2 month old Glock 32 to the range today for a lunchtime diversion. I had put about 500 rounds through it before today (a combination of Gold Dots, Federal HSTs, Independents, and Remington UMCs), just to build enough confidence to start using it as my new EDC. (What a great gun and caliber!)

Today, I purchased and shot a standard white box of Winchester 125gr. JHPs. I had numerous keyholes out of the 50 round box. As I shot I thought I was hitting two rounds close together on earlier targets (and feeling rather proud, I might say). When I counted holes on the last target, however, I realized what was happening. Two holes that I thought were caused by four close shots were really two keyholes. I later pulled my discarded targets out of the garbage and found 11 more keyholes. 13 total out of a box of 50.

Rob
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Old 11-01-2012, 13:54   #55
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I wonder what caused the keyholing? Undersized bullets?
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Old 11-01-2012, 18:54   #56
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Some anecdotal evidence to support the theory that the Winchester bullet is to blame:

I took my 2 month old Glock 32 to the range today for a lunchtime diversion. I had put about 500 rounds through it before today (a combination of Gold Dots, Federal HSTs, Independents, and Remington UMCs), just to build enough confidence to start using it as my new EDC. (What a great gun and caliber!)

Today, I purchased and shot a standard white box of Winchester 125gr. JHPs. I had numerous keyholes out of the 50 round box. As I shot I thought I was hitting two rounds close together on earlier targets (and feeling rather proud, I might say). When I counted holes on the last target, however, I realized what was happening. Two holes that I thought were caused by four close shots were really two keyholes. I later pulled my discarded targets out of the garbage and found 11 more keyholes. 13 total out of a box of 50.

Rob
Winchester likes to crimp the hell out of their ammo. I measured undersized bullets on some .357sig WWB ammo I had. The bullets measured .002" undersized. (.353")
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Old 11-01-2012, 21:07   #57
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I wonder what caused the keyholing? Undersized bullets?
They miked at 0.352". Supposed to be 0.355".
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Old 11-02-2012, 03:13   #58
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We have found out of spec WWB rounds in .357 SIG.
Caliber Corner
Won't buy it anymore..the Remington stuff is cheaper anyway, if not
Double Tap 125 gr. Match ammo that seems to live up to its name.

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Old 11-02-2012, 07:44   #59
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They miked at 0.352". Supposed to be 0.355".
That would do it - a full millimeter undersized. A wobble in the barrel for sure.
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Old 11-02-2012, 15:08   #60
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Do I need to worry about damage to my barrel as a result of having shot this substandard ammo?

Rob

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