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Old 10-09-2012, 14:31   #51
ABNAK
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UPDATE:

Called DT and spoke to the brother of Mike. Explained everything and had sent him an email with the hibachi pic in it which he read as he spoke to me. Admitted that they had trouble getting Sierra's and substituted Winchesters. He obviously wasn't happy with the keyhole issue. Offered to send me some more 357Sig in Gold Dots if I wanted, but being a bit jaded on that caliber I elected to get the 150gr Nosler .40 load (which I have some of and like for a compact gun like my Kahr P40). He will also include in with the ammo a shipping label for me to return the remaining 357Sig rounds. I told him I'd put the pulled bullet in there too.

This to me is satisfactory customer service and I told him it was appreciated and that I would purchase DT in the future.....just maybe not 357Sig!



FWIW the 150gr Nosler .40 load chrono'd at 1167fps average from my Walther PPS's 3.2" barrel. I suspect it'll break 1200fps from my P40's 3.5" tube. Don't have the chrono anymore though to confirm it (don't ask).
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Old 10-09-2012, 15:49   #52
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Happy ending.

On another note, just another nail in the coffin of Winchester's death spiraling QC.
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Old 10-09-2012, 18:29   #53
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Indeed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo View Post
Happy ending.

On another note, just another nail in the coffin of Winchester's death spiraling QC.
A happy ending to a long story . . . . .
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Old 11-01-2012, 13:19   #54
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Some anecdotal evidence to support the theory that the Winchester bullet is to blame:

I took my 2 month old Glock 32 to the range today for a lunchtime diversion. I had put about 500 rounds through it before today (a combination of Gold Dots, Federal HSTs, Independents, and Remington UMCs), just to build enough confidence to start using it as my new EDC. (What a great gun and caliber!)

Today, I purchased and shot a standard white box of Winchester 125gr. JHPs. I had numerous keyholes out of the 50 round box. As I shot I thought I was hitting two rounds close together on earlier targets (and feeling rather proud, I might say). When I counted holes on the last target, however, I realized what was happening. Two holes that I thought were caused by four close shots were really two keyholes. I later pulled my discarded targets out of the garbage and found 11 more keyholes. 13 total out of a box of 50.

Rob
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Old 11-01-2012, 13:54   #55
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I wonder what caused the keyholing? Undersized bullets?
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Old 11-01-2012, 18:54   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roberev View Post
Some anecdotal evidence to support the theory that the Winchester bullet is to blame:

I took my 2 month old Glock 32 to the range today for a lunchtime diversion. I had put about 500 rounds through it before today (a combination of Gold Dots, Federal HSTs, Independents, and Remington UMCs), just to build enough confidence to start using it as my new EDC. (What a great gun and caliber!)

Today, I purchased and shot a standard white box of Winchester 125gr. JHPs. I had numerous keyholes out of the 50 round box. As I shot I thought I was hitting two rounds close together on earlier targets (and feeling rather proud, I might say). When I counted holes on the last target, however, I realized what was happening. Two holes that I thought were caused by four close shots were really two keyholes. I later pulled my discarded targets out of the garbage and found 11 more keyholes. 13 total out of a box of 50.

Rob
Winchester likes to crimp the hell out of their ammo. I measured undersized bullets on some .357sig WWB ammo I had. The bullets measured .002" undersized. (.353")
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Old 11-01-2012, 21:07   #57
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I wonder what caused the keyholing? Undersized bullets?
They miked at 0.352". Supposed to be 0.355".
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Old 11-02-2012, 03:13   #58
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We have found out of spec WWB rounds in .357 SIG.
Caliber Corner
Won't buy it anymore..the Remington stuff is cheaper anyway, if not
Double Tap 125 gr. Match ammo that seems to live up to its name.

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Old 11-02-2012, 07:44   #59
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They miked at 0.352". Supposed to be 0.355".
That would do it - a full millimeter undersized. A wobble in the barrel for sure.
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Old 11-02-2012, 15:08   #60
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Do I need to worry about damage to my barrel as a result of having shot this substandard ammo?

Rob

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Old 11-02-2012, 16:25   #61
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Do I need to worry about damage to my barrel as a result of having shot this substandard ammo?

Rob

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No. The bullets were just undersize and the barrel would not stabilize them properly causing the bullet to tumble.

Last edited by dkf; 11-02-2012 at 16:26..
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Old 11-03-2012, 11:24   #62
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No. The bullets were just undersize and the barrel would not stabilize them properly causing the bullet to tumble.
Yes indeed - a full millimeter undersized . Oops my mistake, It isn't a full millimeter.
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Last edited by SCmasterblaster; 11-14-2012 at 07:37..
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:48   #63
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DoubleCRAP ammo lost my business years ago.....their over-stated velocities are one thing, and now this is another......

i've been using underwood ammo with great results......what it says on the box is exactly what it is
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Old 11-03-2012, 13:09   #64
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DoubleCRAP ammo lost my business years ago.....their over-stated velocities are one thing, and now this is another......

i've been using underwood ammo with great results......what it says on the box is exactly what it is
I am planning on getting some Underwood ammo one day soon. I hope that it is OK.
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Old 11-03-2012, 15:37   #65
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Yes indeed - a full millimeter undersized .
No .002" undersized in my case and .003" undersize for the OP.

1mm = .039"

To put it in laymens terms .002" - .003" is around what a human hair measures in diameter. That may seem small but it can make a REAL big difference.

Last edited by dkf; 11-03-2012 at 15:37..
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Old 11-04-2012, 13:07   #66
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No .002" undersized in my case and .003" undersize for the OP.

1mm = .039"

To put it in laymens terms .002" - .003" is around what a human hair measures in diameter. That may seem small but it can make a REAL big difference.
My mistake - sorry!
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Old 11-12-2012, 14:50   #67
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I talked with a Winchester Ammo representative today. It seems that I am the first to put this problem on their radar screen. If any of you experience keyholing with the WWB .357 sig round, I encourage you to give them a call. I can give you the direct phone number if you PM me.

Sadly, I shot off all my ammo, so I don't have any rounds to send back to them for inspection.

Rob
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Old 11-12-2012, 17:42   #68
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Problems? With Double Tap? Noooo, I won't believe it!

Not sure why they are so popular.
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Old 11-12-2012, 18:58   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roberev View Post
I talked with a Winchester Ammo representative today. It seems that I am the first to put this problem on their radar screen. If any of you experience keyholing with the WWB .357 sig round, I encourage you to give them a call. I can give you the direct phone number if you PM me.

Sadly, I shot off all my ammo, so I don't have any rounds to send back to them for inspection.

Rob
They don't want to list the number to call them or e-mail so I said the hell with it. Will not buy any of their ammo anymore either. I have pics of both undersized bullets with the mic on it for measurement and photos of a crushed round. Two boxes bought about a year apart both with major flaws.
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:36   #70
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Quote:
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They don't want to list the number to call them or e-mail so I said the hell with it. Will not buy any of their ammo anymore either. I have pics of both undersized bullets with the mic on it for measurement and photos of a crushed round. Two boxes bought about a year apart both with major flaws.
I got their telephone number off of the Internet. When I called, they gave me a direct line for when I want to call back.

If you send me your photos by PM I will forward them to Winchester. They were asking for such information to help them investigate the matter.

Rob

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Old 11-14-2012, 07:39   #71
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Quote:
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I talked with a Winchester Ammo representative today. It seems that I am the first to put this problem on their radar screen. If any of you experience keyholing with the WWB .357 sig round, I encourage you to give them a call. I can give you the direct phone number if you PM me.

Sadly, I shot off all my ammo, so I don't have any rounds to send back to them for inspection.

Rob
I wonder if these folks ever test their own ammo?
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