[jbglock]

I download all my Glock mags by one because they are a pain to fully load. I carry a 17C on duty with 2 spare mags. Off duty a 23C with one spare mag. So on duty 49 rounds instead of 52. Off duty 25 rounds instead of 27. Just not that big a deal to me. I have 23 mags that are over a decade and a half old and still work fine so whatever I'm doing I'll just keep doing.

[SCSU74]

Originally Posted by unit1069

I've read the pros and cons of leaving fully loaded magazines sit for years. From what I can tell even the experts are divided on this question, with some claiming there should be no problem and others saying it's not a good practice.

I haven't had the opportunity to go to the range in quite a few months and read that downloading the magazine by one round is a good way to "relax" the magazine spring if a loaded pistol is going to sit for sometime without being fired.

What say you, GT members?

Go into the valuable info sub forum, beaten to death in there. No need to download pistol mags. Ar mags are a different story


Sent from my iPhone... which probably auto-corrected something wrong

[Arc Angel]

Originally Posted by 4Rules

Larry Vickers' Tactical Tip:
Magazines[/SIZE]
http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-tips/magazines/

About Larry Vickers:
Civilian Background
http://vickerstactical.com/about-lar...an-background/

Military Background
http://vickerstactical.com/about-lar...larry-vickers/

LARRY VICKERS ON TAKING CARE OF YOUR WEAPON MAGAZINES:

1.) Baby them. Treat your magazines as gently as you can within the realm of realistic training. Don’t drop them fully loaded during a mag reload drill as that is very abusive and does not reflect reality. Don’t drop them on hard surfaces such as concrete and gravel as a matter of habit. If it is necessary to do this due to range restrictions then put down something to cushion the dropped magazine.

2.) On tough to seat mags, download at least 1 round. If a fully loaded mag is difficult to seat with the slide or bolt assembly in battery then download the mag by at least 1 round as a matter of habit. USGI aluminum M16 magazines are a good example of this as they are really only properly designed to take 28 rounds, not 30 as advertised. Glock pistol mags as a general rule should always be downloaded 1 round as a fully loaded mag is difficult to seat with the slide forward.

3.) Leave loaded only when necessary and rotate with fresh magazines monthly. This will increase the longevity of your magazines.

4.) Attempt to keep them clean particularly in sandy and salt water environments. Do not oil the magazine internals as this tends to attract debris.

5.) Use OEM mags as a general rule. Original manufacturer mags tend to be the best choice across the board. An exception would be magazines for 1911 and AR15 magazines. 1911 manufacturers as a general rule supply a cheap, low bid magazine with their pistols as they realize most serious shooters will buy higher quality aftermarket magazines. Wilson Combat 1911 magazines are some of the finest on the market. I specifically like the Wilson Combat ETM magazines, but the 47D mag is good too. For the AR, Magpul magazines are worth a hard look.

6.) They require periodic replacement. I know this will come as a shocker for some of you but believe it or not after awhile you need to trash your mags and buy new ones if they are used a lot. They take a lot of abuse and are expected to work 100% of the time with no exceptions yet be reasonably priced. This is a tall order and it means that after awhile they have simply have met their service life and need to be replaced. I know it is a radical concept for some people but it is the truth.

I have lived by these guidelines for years and have had exceptionally good luck with my magazines. Those who know me also know my weapons tend to work very reliably and a major reason is I treat my magazines with the respect they deserve. I would recommend you do the same.

4Rules, Thank you for making such an excellent contribution to this thread. Too bad the information has been so largely overlooked!

Larry Vickers, while he might not have a PhD in metallurgy or spring science, clearly demonstrates that he knows what he’s talking about, and speaks with the wisdom and authority of an older, heavily experienced, gunman. I like what Vickers has to say, so much, that I’m going to keep a copy of his recommendations for my own use.

(Even though I’m already following these caveats, and have done so for many years, at least now I’ll have just that much more justification!)

Thanks!

[DocWills]

Im a downloader. I refuse to force rounds in mags. Mine last forever. I drop 2 on the 9mm and one on the 40/45. I can not say it worries me. I can reload with ease, shoot well and not have single issu with anything.

I started this with highpowers in the old days. Then the smith 9mm issues.

Not stressing your equipment is old. Peacemakers were the first download. 5 rather than 6 unless your fighting.

We carried 5 nd 6 shot guns for years.If you cant finish it with 13 9mm rounds ball or otherwise hes more of a man than you. Same with 12 45 rounds or 13 40 cal.

You have to be realistic.

If you dont want to be realistic, well carry em full and fantasy up.

Also stats wise, first round failure to feed out of the mag drops way down. If your really in need that alone would do it for me.

[Arc Angel]

Originally Posted by DocWills

Im a downloader. I refuse to force rounds in mags. Mine last forever. I drop 2 on the 9mm and one on the 40/45. I can not say it worries me. I can reload with ease, shoot well and not have single issu with anything.

I started this with highpowers in the old days. Then the smith 9mm issues.

Not stressing your equipment is old. Peacemakers were the first download. 5 rather than 6 unless your fighting.

We carried 5 nd 6 shot guns for years.If you cant finish it with 13 9mm rounds ball or otherwise hes more of a man than you. Same with 12 45 rounds or 13 40 cal.

You have to be realistic.

If you dont want to be realistic, well carry em full and fantasy up.

Also stats wise, first round failure to feed out of the mag drops way down. If your really in need that alone would do it for me.

Doc, you really said it! You and I must be close in years.

[SJ 40]

This

Not stressing your equipment is old. Peacemakers were the first download. 5 rather than 6 unless your fighting.

was done because if one loaded all six chambers the firing pin was at rest on one of the primers of the six cartridges,different than fully loading your magazines. SJ 40

[unit1069]

Thanks for all the responses. I can see there is no consensus on this issue. Hoping others with opinions will chime in.

[PEC-Memphis]

Originally Posted by whitebread

You clearly have no formal education in metallurgy, material science, or even, mechanical engineering. Spring set is complete nonsense.

These folks probably know more about gun springs than everyone on this forum:

From Wolff Gunsprings FAQ's:

5. How often should I change magazine spring? Should I unload my magazines, rotate magazines, load with fewer than the maximum rounds?

Magazine springs in semi-auto pistols are one of the most critical springs and are the subject of much debate and concern. Magazines which are kept fully loaded for long periods of time, such as in law enforcement and personal/home defense applications, will generally be subject to more fatigue than the weekend shooter's magazine springs in which the magazines are loaded up only when shooting.

Magazine design and capacity also affect the longevity of the spring. In many older pistol designs, maximum capacity was not the always the goal such as with the 7 round 1911 Colt magazines will last for years fully loaded. There was room for more spring material in these guns which reduces overall stress and increases the usable life of the spring.

More recently higher capacity magazine have become popular. These are designed to hold more rounds with less spring material often in the same space. This puts more stress on the spring and will cause it to fatigue at a faster rate. Unloading these magazines a round or two will help the life of the spring. Rotating fully loaded magazines will also help the problem somewhat but it is not always practical.

In applications where the magazine must be kept loaded at all times, a high quality magazine spring such as Wolff extra power magazine springs, will provide maximum life. Regular replacement of magazine springs will provide the best defense against failure from weak magazine springs. Regular shooting of the pistol is the best way to be sure the springs are still functioning reliably.

[Warp]

Originally Posted by samuse

The experts are not divided.

The people who know what they're talkin' about say 'load 'em up and relax'.

This.

[robhic]

This is more personal stupidity and non-focus than an equipment issue. Just today, I was at the range testing ammo in my Ruger .22's. I had my G26 with 10+1 concealed.

After finishing the .22, I had one target left so I shot it with my 26. Ten shots and then pointed the pistol downrange (THANK GOD!) before putting it back in the holster so I could leave and head home. Well, I had shot 10 rounds. The G26 carries 10 rounds, but ONE IN THE CHAMBER = ELEVEN!!!

I had the dreaded ND -- more like a SD (Stupid Discharge) -- down range!!! Because I am thinking/counting 10 rounds, the 11th snuck up on me. One more reason to only load the designed amount, downloading one round as the one in the chamber from now on. All Glocks..

[Warp]

Originally Posted by robhic

This is more personal stupidity and non-focus than an equipment issue. Just today, I was at the range testing ammo in my Ruger .22's. I had my G26 with 10+1 concealed.

After finishing the .22, I had one target left so I shot it with my 26. Ten shots and then pointed the pistol downrange (THANK GOD!) before putting it back in the holster so I could leave and head home. Well, I had shot 10 rounds. The G26 carries 10 rounds, but ONE IN THE CHAMBER = ELEVEN!!!

I had the dreaded ND -- more like a SD (Stupid Discharge) -- down range!!! Because I am thinking/counting 10 rounds, the 11th snuck up on me. One more reason to only load the designed amount, downloading one round as the one in the chamber from now on. All Glocks..

10 rounds in a 10 round magazine is the designed amount.

[SouthpawG26]

Originally Posted by robhic

Because I am thinking/counting 10 rounds, the 11th snuck up on me. One more reason to only load the designed amount, downloading one round as the one in the chamber from now on. All Glocks..

No, i disagree. It's one more reason to completely let go of the concept and mindset of counting rounds untill empty.

Nothing short of a removed magazine AND a locked back slide AND a visually verified empty chamber, constitutes an unloaded weapon.

Nothing.

[Z71bill]

Even if you download - you should still unload and reload your mags every 3 months or 3,000 miles whichever comes first.

[PEC-Memphis]

Originally Posted by robhic

This is more personal stupidity and non-focus than an equipment issue. Just today, I was at the range testing ammo in my Ruger .22's. I had my G26 with 10+1 concealed.

After finishing the .22, I had one target left so I shot it with my 26. Ten shots and then pointed the pistol downrange (THANK GOD!) before putting it back in the holster so I could leave and head home. Well, I had shot 10 rounds. The G26 carries 10 rounds, but ONE IN THE CHAMBER = ELEVEN!!!

I had the dreaded ND -- more like a SD (Stupid Discharge) -- down range!!! Because I am thinking/counting 10 rounds, the 11th snuck up on me. One more reason to only load the designed amount, downloading one round as the one in the chamber from now on. All Glocks..

Didn't notice slide lock (or lack thereof?)

[Warp]

Originally Posted by PEC-Memphis

Didn't notice slide lock (or lack thereof?)

Very good point.

Who thinks that their Glock is empty when the slide closes on an inserted magazine??? I mean, really...this is looking like a great example of poor gun handling.

[Never Nervous]

Originally Posted by Z71bill

Even if you download - you should still unload and reload your mags every 3 months or 3,000 miles whichever comes first.

If you're using synthetic you can go at least 7 maybe 8 thousand before downloading.

NN

[.38 super]

Originally Posted by Arc Angel

... I've had spring problems with Glock 45 ACP magazines that I never had with 1911 magazines...

My 1911 style pre-historic Llama in .38super have both mags loaded since 1990 believe it ot not.
Besides the feeding problem with one of them that I dropped once, the other-one is performing perfectly. I know for a fact that this gun was not shot from 1990 till 1997, both mags loaded, it was my father in law's gun, the guy was ill, I never shot the gun for 7 years, it was in my possession.
Never had problems with my Glock mags too but they don't stay loaded longer than month or two...

[jbglock]

Actually their is a consensus. I trust Wolff. I trust Vickers. I have modern magazines that have lasted for 15+ years and counting. Download 1.

[AquaHull]

Originally Posted by DWARREN123

Never had a problem with keeping mags loaded for extended periods of time. I do rotate thru my mags for carry about every six months.

Me too, it's easy to do when you have lots of spares. Plus you stay sharp with the carry ammo, since I shoot it out.

[Z71bill]

Originally Posted by Never Nervous

If you're using synthetic you can go at least 7 maybe 8 thousand before downloading.

NN

Glocks & Glock mags are synthetic - aren't they?

[Z71bill]

Originally Posted by PEC-Memphis

These folks probably know more about gun springs than everyone on this forum:

This is like asking Jiffy Lube if I should change my oil every 3 months / 3,000 miles.

They want to sell springs - what do you think they will say?

If I think really hard - I could come to the conclusion that --

If the manufacturer forces an extra round in - just so they can say - My gun holds 15 - Brand X only holds 14 -

And they do this by - reducing the size of the spring too much - and by "over compresses the spring" I could see a possible spring problem.

----------------
My -

S&W M&P9c mags hold 12 rounds of 9MM with no problem.

The S&W M&P40c mags hold 10 rounds of .40 S&W - but it is a tight fit.

The magazine body is the exact same size - they use the same spring.

I have M&P40c mags that have been fully loaded for almost 5 years - so far no issues - the springs are still strong - I know they are because I can feel it when I load the magazine.

If I need to use a mag loader to get the last few rounds in - because the spring is so stiff - is it possible that the spring is weak? Doesn't seem possible.

[unit1069]

Originally Posted by Z71bill

Glocks & Glock mags are synthetic - aren't they?

The mag springs are steel.

[robhic]

Originally Posted by Warp

10 rounds in a 10 round magazine is the designed amount.

My point being load 10 and then rack the top round in the chamber so it becomes 9+1 leaving a -1 downloaded mag.

[robhic]

Originally Posted by PEC-Memphis

Didn't notice slide lock (or lack thereof?)

No, no I didn't. That was why I started the post saying it was non-focus and stupidity causing a SD (Stupid Discharge). I am completely at fault and will not make excuses. I didn't pay attention and ABSOLUTELY SHOULD HAVE OBSERVED THE SLIDE BACK IN BATTERY AND NOT HELD OPEN!!!

It has convinced me to download by 1 round by racking the slide on a loaded magazine to obtain the 9+1 configuration on my 10 round G26 magazines in the future. And others, too....

[Warp]

Originally Posted by robhic

My point being load 10 and then rack the top round in the chamber so it becomes 9+1 leaving a -1 downloaded mag.

My point being that a magazine that holds 10 rounds is loaded to the designed amount when it has 10 rounds in it.

Another point: Don't assume a gun is empty because you counted rounds.

Another point: One should probably get out and shoot more if one thinks a Glock, with a magazine inserted, has run out of ammunition despite the fact that the slide closed after the last shot.