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Old 09-26-2012, 11:44   #1
RYT 2BER
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Quick basic question about manuals

Hi-

I apologize in advance.. I know there are about a billion "i wanna reload now what do I do" kind of questions on this forum..

I have consistently felt that reloading wasnt worth my effort, but since I am hoping to shoot more and more 10mm, it starts looking attractive $wise.

Although many of you will signifcantly disagree, I am planning on buying a cheapy Lee HAND press (yes you read that right)..

Its cheap, and I love sitting on the couch or bed so I can do this in my lap from some nice videos Ive seen..

With the hand press, set of dies, handprimer and powder spoon set, I should be good to go.. And since 40 and 10mm use the same die set I can just do 40 too since its what I shoot the most...

Whew... ok... so now here is my question... Can someone direct me to a simple listing of "what primer/what powder/ and how much to measure", I can use?

Im not looking for exotic at this point, and I just want a basic recipie to get going.. Honestly I dont want to read about the history of reloading and such as I dont know if this is for me or not..

I know how to use the hand press from watching vids and it seems simple enough... Is there somewhere to obtain a simple recipe without going through a whole book or is this really the only way?
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:53   #2
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Lyman and or ABC's of reloading.
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Old 09-26-2012, 12:10   #3
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I didnt see a scale in your list. You absolutely must have a scale. Its not optional. Dippers WILL NOT dip what they say they will. I have yet to ever see a single one that will throw what it says it will. Get a scale. I still use a Lee scale that many people hate, that works perfect for me. Or just get a digital one, but you MUST have one.
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Old 09-26-2012, 12:30   #4
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Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel View Post
Lyman and or ABC's of reloading.
Good advice. I started with a hand press many, many years ago and it wasn't a bad way to get the reloading ball rolling. If you use the dipper that comes with the kit it will throw fairly conservative weights of the powder you choose, and the dippers drop pretty reliable charge weights (volumes) if you are consistent in how you use them (there will be directions with the kit and, I assume, a table showing charges). You'll use Std. large pistol primers and I would suggest a slower burning powder similar to Unique or Power Pistol to start with. The Bad News: once you get a few boxes under your belt, you'll want a table mounted press....
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Old 09-26-2012, 12:32   #5
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I started with a Lee Thigh Master. I'd get a Lee hand primer and scale too. Dippers can work but you really need to weigh what they dip and practice getting consistent dips. Most of us use volumetric powder throws so anyone telling you dippers don't work may be misleading you (what they throw is powder dependent). They are not perfect but can work. A Lee powder measure is about $20.00 and works well. I still use mine once in a while.

Then just expect to buy another press at some time as it is written on the Sacred Reloading Tablets somewhere.
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Old 09-26-2012, 12:44   #6
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Welcome to the addiction.

Take a seat, right over there ------->
and the doctor will be with you, shortly.

Don't forget to bring plenty of $$$, on your next few visits.

You will see (rather quickly) that you will not want to reload, while in bed. (There are other, more interesting hobbies found, there!)
Seriously. . . not a good idea to load/reload in bed.
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Old 09-26-2012, 12:56   #7
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I have never used a dipper so you can choose to ignore everything below.

I wouldn't use a dipper for .40 S&W simply because it is probably the most KB'd cartridge ever created. I'm not saying they can't be loaded safely but I am saying that certain powders don't react well to an overcharge.

And I definitely wouldn't use a dipper for a highly charged cartridge like the 10mm. The only reason the 10mm isn't the most KB'd cartridge ever created is that not many people shoot it and even fewer reload it.

When the difference between a minimum charge and a maximum charge is just 0.5 gr, I just can't come up with a reason to use something like a dipper.

There are powder manufacturer's web sites that will list loads and may be presumed to be credible. I wouldn't accept data from any forum or user group unless I could validate it with a published source.

It does seem a shame to have to buy an entire manual just for one or two loads. But that's just the way it is. I have about a dozen manuals and I'm not even a big time reloader like some of the folks around here.

Buy a book or two, get a powder scale and perhaps a real powder measure. Lacking a real powder measure, I would weigh every single charge.

Here's the tool to trickle the powder into the scale pan:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/317...owder-trickler

I'm not so sure about the idea of reloading while there is any chance of a distraction.

Richard
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Old 09-26-2012, 13:09   #8
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I have to agree, dippers suck as does the nutcracker Lee press. Why, seriously. If you don;t think it's worth your time, then you'll really feel that way after banging out a handfull on that system.
You need loading manuals, they tell you usefull stuff like what size primer & what powders to do what. There really is no substitute doing it right. Oh sure, I can cobble loads together that go bang w/ just about anything, but my time is more valuable to me than what you are describing. My guns & body parts are worth more than $$ to me as well.
I always tell noobs, if your time is worth sa lot to you, then you need better gear. The min reloading setup should be a decent ss press & beam scale. You can use dippers w/ medium to slow burners where close isn't going to blow things up. Dippers should be avoided at all cost for powders faster than Unique IMO, any caliber. You'll be lucky to get 2/10gr accuracy w/ them.
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Old 09-26-2012, 13:34   #9
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I really appreciate all the advise.... However if dippers are no good that's gonna be a problem.... If I have to weigh out every charge on a scale it's gonna take 2 days to load 100 rounds....

Seems too time consuming for me at that level? Weighing out every charge? I've never done it so maybe I'm not realizing the time involved?

Maybe that trickler is the solution.
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Old 09-26-2012, 14:13   #10
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Originally Posted by RYT 2BER View Post
I really appreciate all the advise.... However if dippers are no good that's gonna be a problem.... If I have to weigh out every charge on a scale it's gonna take 2 days to load 100 rounds....

Seems too time consuming for me at that level? Weighing out every charge? I've never done it so maybe I'm not realizing the time involved?

Maybe that trickler is the solution.
Your the guy trying to reload on his coach and take the path less traveled. You can use dippers. Just use unique. But your picking the path and it kinda is going to be what it's going to be. Reloading is worth it. Your probably wasting all the money you spend on the cheap tools and will later end up buying better. Might as well pick a decent setup now and skip the pain of the road less traveled.

ANY Trickler is a PITA for Pistol. It's just not the easy way.
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Old 09-26-2012, 14:23   #11
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Yes, trickling charges sucks! There are automatic dispensers but I'm guess they aren't in the budget either.

In the bad old days, I bought an RCBS single stage press kit with a beam scale, a funnel, a loading block and some dies.

I could probably make about 100 rounds per hour if I really concentrated on what I was doing. Maybe not quite that many because I had to trickle every load. Let's say 60 rounds per hour, just for a number.

The standard "El Presidente" drill takes 12 rounds and a good time is way under 10 seconds. So, I could unload in a minute of shooting what took an hour to reload!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_pistol_shooting

It didn't take long for me to figure out that a single stage press is not suitable for pistol reloading!

I moved on to a turret press that would probably make an actual 100 rounds per hour and from there to a Dillon 450 that would do about 500 rounds per hour and up to an RCBS Green Machine that would do about 1000 rounds per hour. For the average shooter (a couple of hundred rounds per week), the Dillon 550B is the way to go.

In my view, the absolute minimum press kit for pistol reloading is the Kempf version of the Lee Classic Turret:
https://kempfgunshop.com//index.php?...hk=1&Itemid=41

This kit doesn't come with the Lee scale which, as it turns out, is a good thing! That scale isn't highly regarded around here by people who have actually used it. Consider a Dillon Eliminator

http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/con...or__039__Scale

The perfect use for that hand press is creating test loads at the range. I certainly wouldn't consider it for pistol loading.

Richard
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Old 09-26-2012, 14:42   #12
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Originally Posted by RYT 2BER View Post
I really appreciate all the advise.... However if dippers are no good that's gonna be a problem.... If I have to weigh out every charge on a scale it's gonna take 2 days to load 100 rounds....

Seems too time consuming for me at that level? Weighing out every charge? I've never done it so maybe I'm not realizing the time involved?

Maybe that trickler is the solution.
You could always use the dipper for the majority of the load. Dump a dipper full of powder into the scale pan. If the load is heavy, empty the pan back into the container and try again. If the load is light, trickle a little to bring the scale up to zero. Of course, if the weight is right on, use it.

And you need some kind of loading block to hold the cases and a funnel for pouring the powder from the pan into the cases.

You do this type of reloading in batches. First, you decap and resize all of your cases. Then you prime them all, then charge them all, then seat the bullets and, finally, apply the taper crimp. Most reloaders would give up on the taper crimp and just crimp during the bullet seating stage. I don't recommend skipping the taper crimp stage but I certainly understand why it would happen.

Richard
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Old 09-26-2012, 15:18   #13
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Originally Posted by F106 Fan View Post
You could always use the dipper for the majority of the load. Dump a dipper full of powder into the scale pan. If the load is heavy, empty the pan back into the container and try again. If the load is light, trickle a little to bring the scale up to zero. Of course, if the weight is right on, use it.

And you need some kind of loading block to hold the cases and a funnel for pouring the powder from the pan into the cases.

You do this type of reloading in batches. First, you decap and resize all of your cases. Then you prime them all, then charge them all, then seat the bullets and, finally, apply the taper crimp. Most reloaders would give up on the taper crimp and just crimp during the bullet seating stage. I don't recommend skipping the taper crimp stage but I certainly understand why it would happen.

Richard
I'm thinking this could be the solution also... I did see some powder measure devices, but when I read the reviews people claim they use the measure then weigh the darn charge anyway so what's the point... I might as well use the technique you've described by simply using the dipper into the scale and then just finagle it a bit to get it right...

Wow... Weighing every charge... Gonna be a looooooong process.
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Old 09-26-2012, 15:20   #14
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Your the guy trying to reload on his coach and take the path less traveled. You can use dippers. Just use unique. But your picking the path and it kinda is going to be what it's going to be. Reloading is worth it. Your probably wasting all the money you spend on the cheap tools and will later end up buying better. Might as well pick a decent setup now and skip the pain of the road less traveled.

ANY Trickler is a PITA for Pistol. It's just not the easy way.
You could very well be right, but the whole setup is gonna run me like barely $100 so it seems like a good way to try it and even decide if its worth it for my amount of shooting.
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Old 09-26-2012, 15:29   #15
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For pistol and bulk rifle loading, almost everybody uses some kind of volumetric powder measure. Most are adjustable over a large range of charges.

The Lee Perfect measure might be acceptable - I haven't used it. I have used the more expensive RCBS Uniflow and 'Lil Dandy measures.

These volumetric dispensers pretty much depend on a solid bench mount to limit vibrations that will cause variations in the charge.

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?userSe...powder+measure

Still, the only way you can trust a volumetric dispenser is to throw a lot of charges and weigh them. Consistency is still part of the technique to using these.

If you stay away from the max loads, there will be a little room for errors in dispensing.

Richard
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Old 09-26-2012, 15:42   #16
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I'm thinking this could be the solution also... I did see some powder measure devices, but when I read the reviews people claim they use the measure then weigh the darn charge anyway so what's the point... I might as well use the technique you've described by simply using the dipper into the scale and then just finagle it a bit to get it right...

Wow... Weighing every charge... Gonna be a looooooong process.
You weigh the several powder drops from a powder measure before you start and occasionally as you reload to verify the measure is throwing an the correct powder charge. It only takes one wrong load to ruin your whole day and gun shooting.
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Old 09-26-2012, 15:56   #17
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I have the hand press you are looking at. It's great for depriming, sizing . But I use bench mounted for seating crimping.
If just mild loads I use the dippers if in mid range but you will see that they aren't the same every dip. And look at a different priming system. The little ram that comes in that kit aren't worth the time.
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Old 09-26-2012, 17:09   #18
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You could very well be right, but the whole setup is gonna run me like barely $100 so it seems like a good way to try it and even decide if its worth it for my amount of shooting.
Or you could do it right and have a useful product to use if you like it or a sellable product if you decide to walk away from it. 250 to 300 would do it.
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Old 09-26-2012, 17:14   #19
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Double Post.
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Old 09-26-2012, 17:27   #20
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You could very well be right, but the whole setup is gonna run me like barely $100 so it seems like a good way to try it and even decide if its worth it for my amount of shooting.
So, how much do you shoot? When you start reloading, your shooting will increase. By a bunch...

You are setting yourself up to hate reloading. There's simply no way that the hand loader is going to be a pleasant, or even bearable, experience. If you were making 20 rounds of 30-06 for a hunting trip, sure! Making a couple of boxes of pistol ammo is going to be ugly.

Even a single stage press is too grim to contemplate but you can get a workable Lee press for $68:



I have never used this press so I have no idea how well it works. But what's to go wrong with a single stage press?

Richard
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Old 09-26-2012, 17:31   #21
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http://www.midwayusa.com/product/807...le-stage-press

Even this press is cheaper than the Lee hand press.
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Old 09-26-2012, 17:50   #22
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I'm thinking this could be the solution also... I did see some powder measure devices, but when I read the reviews people claim they use the measure then weigh the darn charge anyway so what's the point... I might as well use the technique you've described by simply using the dipper into the scale and then just finagle it a bit to get it right...

Wow... Weighing every charge... Gonna be a looooooong process.
A good powder measure throws very accurate charges with most powder types. Set it & then check it, throw the charges the same way each time, as good as it gets. This only works well w/ ball powders & most flake powders but not so well for stick powders. If you really want to waste your time w/ the nut cracker, at least get a powder measure to throw charges & yes you still need a good scale to verify. This precludes any of the Lee powder stuff IMO, just poorly executed gear. You can go cheap on the press & dies, but spend good money on the scale & measure. They can be used later if you go progressive, well at least the scale.
F016 is right, you will not have a great exp reloading on the nut cracker & end up buying something else anyway. You can set it up on a folding workmate & store it if space is a problem. You shouldn't be sitting & watching tv reloading anyway, more foolish than voting OBAMA.
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Old 09-26-2012, 17:51   #23
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And to prime, you need to add:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/728...le-stage-press

Richard
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Old 09-26-2012, 18:28   #24
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Originally Posted by RYT 2BER View Post
I'm thinking this could be the solution also... I did see some powder measure devices, but when I read the reviews people claim they use the measure then weigh the darn charge anyway so what's the point... I might as well use the technique you've described by simply using the dipper into the scale and then just finagle it a bit to get it right...

Wow... Weighing every charge... Gonna be a looooooong process.
You only need to weigh the charge from the powder measure to make sure it's throwing the correct charge. Then weigh maybe 10 more to make sure it's consistant and you are comfortable with the charge. After than you can load without weighing any more charges. For example I will weigh 10 charges to make sure the measure is set. Then I might weigh one in the middle and then one when I'm done. The thing is you say you don't know if it's worth your time. then you buy a hand press that will let you load maybe 30 to 50 per hour. That doesn't make sence to me. I wish you luck and hope you enjoy it.
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Old 09-26-2012, 18:40   #25
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...You shouldn't be sitting & watching tv reloading anyway, ...
Absolutely 100% correct. I would strongly urge the OP to find a way to setup a reloading station, one way or the other. You don't want to be decapping primers on the bed or couch. The stuff is messy and there are toxins. Plus reloading should be done in an environment free of distractions.

This is not a hobby to cut corners with. Get a good manual. The Speer #14 is another option with good instructions. And get a good beam scale.

Loads need to be worked up from starting charges until you arrive at the desired outcome. A scale is essential for measuring powder charges while working up loads. If a load is found that correlates to a dipper size, then the dippers might work ok. As mentioned before, the dippers need to be verified on the scale to ensure that they agree with the weights tested during load workups.

Another essential item is a set of calipers. I didn't see anyone mention this.
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