[Roering]

Originally Posted by Geko45

Ok, I probably wouldn't vote for him as board member for a company whose stock I hold either. And I would likely not want my board to appoint such a person as CEO. I wouldn't want a recovering drug addict or alcoholic in any of those positions either. I realize that sometimes people can change, but most often they don't. If I have reason to doubt someone's integrity I'm not gonna support that person holding a position of great trust. I have no hard and fast rules on the matter, I take that sort of thing one scenario at a time.



The point is that there is doubt here. Of course he claims that he was just complying with compulsory military service and that he was not a true supporter of the Nazi Party, but that is likely what he would say either way. If he had been an ardent supporter at the time then he certainly wouldn't confirm it now.

One aspect to this that you might not be aware of (unless you are prior military) is that under UCMJ and international law an individual military member is expected and required to not comply with an unlawful order. It doesn't matter if you were conscripted (or volunteered) and sent somewhere you did or did not want to go to support an action you did or did not agree with. When given an order to do something that is unlawful, you must not obey. If you do then you are personally responsible. This was the key legal concept that came out of the Nuremberg trials.

Did Ratzinger carry out any unlawful orders? I don't know. But the Nazi regime was so horrid and despicable in its actions, it's hard to imagine a Hitler Youth member not being expected to cross that line at some point. So, I would say that there is enough doubt about his character to say that he shouldn't hold an office of great trust.

I will add that, ultimately, the matter should be left to the people that are actually affected by the outcome. If he were running for President or Chairman of the Board or even local JP then he would not get my vote. However, the position in question is pope of the catholic church and it seems that they are ok with it which is their perogative. Clearly, I am not catholic so I should have no real say in the matter (just an opinion).

Good to see you are stretching in the morning Gecko45.

You are aware that Nazi Germany couldn't give a rats ass about our UCMJ, let alone adopt it.

Do you really maintain the belief that conscientious objector's in Nazi Germany could simply choose not to serve as they can here in the US?

You do have a say of course but you may want to take a closer look at his life, specifically to see how he tried to avoid service. After all, it is your avatar that says something about smashing ignorance right?

[snowbird]

Originally Posted by Glock36shooter

My muslims?

Yes, your Muslims.

Marxists, Secularists, and Islam want Christianity totally suppressed as it was in Russia during Soviet days. But notice, despite the mass murders, the gulags, the brainwashing of children (Shame on you. You admit that you're abusing a little girl this way too), despite the arrogant boasting of mall-ninja militant atheists, Christianity endured while the Soviets did not. I remember when John Lennon bragged that the Beatles were more popular than Jesus, an elderly hillbilly grandmother noted that 'beetles come and go, but Jesus lives on'. Time has proven her correct, and it will show that you're wrong too.

Islam has little in common with Christianity. Islam has much in common with atheist, totalitarian Marxism.

That's why they're brothers in arms.

[Roering]

Originally Posted by snowbird

Yes, your Muslims.

Marxists, Secularists, and Islam want Christianity totally suppressed as it was in Russia during Soviet days. But notice, despite the mass murders, the gulags, the brainwashing of children (Shame on you. You admit that you're abusing a little girl this way too), despite the arrogant boasting of mall-ninja militant atheists, Christianity endured while the Soviets did not. I remember when John Lennon bragged that the Beatles were more popular than Jesus, an elderly hillbilly grandmother noted that 'beetles come and go, but Jesus lives on'. Time has proven her correct, and it will show that you're wrong too.

Islam has little in common with Christianity. Islam has much in common with atheist, totalitarian Marxism.

That's why they're brothers in arms.

I guess that would explain why the left is so "tolerant" of islam but not Christianity.

[Geko45]

Originally Posted by Roering

You are aware that Nazi Germany couldn't give a rats ass about our UCMJ, let alone adopt it.

Not specifically the UCMJ, but they sure as heck cared when the Nuremberg trials sentenced a lot of them to death or life in prison.

Do you really maintain the belief that conscientious objector's in Nazi Germany could simply choose not to serve as they can here in the US?

International law is clear, "I was just following orders" is not a sufficient defense in a war crimes trial. Ignore that at your own peril (and hope that your side wins).

You do have a say of course but you may want to take a closer look at his life, specifically to see how he tried to avoid service. After all, it is your avatar that says something about smashing ignorance right?

I am not suggesting that he be thrown in jail or anything. Clearly there is evidence to suggest he did what he could to avoid committing any sort of war crime and still not get killed himself. I just find it odd that they would choose Ratzinger when they had an entire college of cardinals to choose from. Certainly there must have been a candidate with a better overall record. Oh wait, I forgot this is the catholic church we are talking about here...

[Foxtrotx1]

To be a good American you must be willing to separate church and state as dictated by our constitution.

So all of you fail at being good Americans.

[Geko45]

Originally Posted by snowbird

Islam has little in common with Christianity. Islam has much in common with atheist, totalitarian Marxism.

That's why they're brothers in arms.

Ok, just for the record here snowy, I am an atheist and I believe that radical Islam poses a greater threat to the world today than any other organized religion (although I also believe that they all do to some degree or another). I am also not a totalitarian Marxist, but rather a libertarian capitalist.

Reconcile that with your worldview. Do you think I am lying to you or that I am just a statistical outlier?

[muscogee]

Originally Posted by Bren

You are wrong there. Muslims attack us primarily for religious reasons, as Osama and the rest have made clear many times. Desert Storm was political and economically motivated.

Islam did not attack us. A few misguided martyrs did. Billions of Muslims didn't attack us.

Could it be that Muslims are angry at the West because the West has had troops in their countries for centuries trying to make them like us? Osama was angry because we had troops in the Muslim Holy Land.

[Roering]

Originally Posted by Geko45

Not specifically the UCMJ, but they sure as heck cared when the Nuremberg trials sentenced a lot of them to death or life in prison.

I suppose so, but that wasn't until after the war.

Originally Posted by Geko45

International law is clear, "I was just following orders" is not a sufficient defense in a war crimes trial. Ignore that at your own peril (and hope that your side wins).

Please share with us what war crimes Ratzinger was charged with?

Originally Posted by Geko45

I am not suggesting that he be thrown in jail or anything. Clearly there is evidence to suggest he did what he could to avoid committing any sort of war crime and still not get killed himself. I just find it odd that they would choose Ratzinger when they had an entire college of cardinals to choose from. Certainly there must have been a candidate with a better overall record. Oh wait, I forgot this is the catholic church we are talking about here...

Considering his tendency towards Orthodoxy and his theological pedigree, I'd say he was a good choice.

Furthermore as Pope he has been doing a good job at "retiring" the more liberal Bishops around the world and replacing them with better ones. So it looks like he was the right man for the job.

[muscogee]

Originally Posted by Animal Mother

Do you know the pope? If not, you really can't draw any conclusions about his feelings based on the feelings of others who might have belonged to the same organization 70 years ago.

I mentioned that I was generalizing and could be wrong.

Originally Posted by Animal Mother

I think it's entirely fair to criticize what he has done during his time in power, not only as pope, but also as an influential bishop and Cardinal and question whether or not his actions have been sufficiently responsive to the issues affecting the world today. On the other hand, criticizing him and implying he was a Nazi based on things that happened when he was young seems both unfair and unnecessary.

What has he done or said about the Nazi resurgence in Germany in the past decade?

[snowbird]

Originally Posted by Geko45

Ok, just for the record here snowy, I am an atheist and I believe that radical Islam poses a greater threat to the world today than any other organized religion (although I also believe that they all do to some degree or another). I am also not a totalitarian Marxist, but rather a libertarian capitalist.

Reconcile that with your worldview. Do you think I am lying to you or that I am just a statistical outlier?

If you are a counterjihadist, then that is to your credit.

[muscogee]

Originally Posted by snowbird

Islam has little in common with Christianity.

Paranoia and misguided martyrs?

[Geko45]

Originally Posted by Roering

Please share with us what war crimes Ratzinger was charged with?

Never said he was. Pretty sure I said the exact opposite.

So it looks like he was the right man for the job.

Of course, want to get something done? Put a Nazi on it!



Ok, I'm just teasing you at this point. Truthfully, I don't care strongly enough about the topic to bother with discussing it seriously. I'm content to enjoy the fact that whoever the pope is has very little impact on my life (as it should be).

[Glock36shooter]

Originally Posted by snowbird

Yes, your Muslims.

Marxists, Secularists, and Islam want Christianity totally suppressed as it was in Russia during Soviet days.

This is a statement of opinion. It isn't one of fact. Care to back that up with anything other than your insane rantings?

brainwashing of children (Shame on you. You admit that you're abusing a little girl this way too)

I am undoing the brainwashing done by the church. And I am absolutely proud of it. She is becoming more of a critical thinker everyday. I have never once told her WHAT to believe. Only to question everything, to not just accept things on faith, to reason, to inquire, to be untrusting of those that would push an ideology on you without substantiating it or only substantiating it with fear (You'll burn in Hell if you don't).

I was so proud of her the other day. She volunteered to work in the nursery at church on sundays. I asked her, "You like working with the babies that much?" She said, "Yeah, but it's mostly so I don't have to sit there and listen to the crap the preacher says." I gave her a giant hug. She recently was moved to Advanced Placement Courses in school too. We've been doing reading and watching educational documentaries together. I've gotten her super interested in science and history.

despite the arrogant boasting of mall-ninja militant

I bet you own a grappling hook or chinese stars don't you?

an elderly hillbilly grandmother noted that 'beetles come and go, but Jesus lives on'.

Yes hillbillies are among the most devout. Speaks to the link between religion and lack of education.

Time has proven her correct, and it will show that you're wrong too.

Oh no my friend. Look at the numbers. I've never made a statement about the world itself. I'm talking about American numbers. And you're dead wrong. People are letting go of religion. More and more of us are putting down our bibles and picking up science and history books. We're at a time when man has access to more information than ever before and we're learning that Christianity, just like Islam, are archaic mythologies best left in the past. You don't have to like it... but it's a fact that American's are leaving religion behind. That's why you're so disgusted with American society these days. Because your ways are on the way OUT. 100 years... mark my words. The religious will be a tiny but strange minority in this country. I hate that I cannot live in that era. I'm sure it will be glorious without the chains of man's delusions of God.

Islam has little in common with Christianity.

Bzzzzzzzzzzzz wrong. It sprang from Abraham just as your religion did. Same origins... different shade of crazy.

[tuica]

Calm down, Mr."Dawg"!

Originally Posted by RyanBDawg

Then move to Israel and fight for them.

Apparently you think it perfectly ok to kill in the name of one religion and not another.

Let them kill each other over some rubble in Jerusalem, means nothing to me. It's just a bunch of junk.

The last time I checked Israel thrashed Arab armies in every war they have fought. I don't think that they need silly Christians in the USA prostrating themselves to a foreign power.

Christians in the US "support" Israel because they think that if they get all the jews back to Israel then Jesus will come back.

Absolutely insane.


Sent from my iPhone 4s

[tuica]

And that high fly ball went right over that fielder's head...

Originally Posted by muscogee

Their religion did not declare war on us any more than your religion declared war on Iraq during Desert Storm.

[HexHead]

Originally Posted by muscogee

Innocent until proven guilty. We trusted Eisenhower, Nimitz, and thousands of other Germans and Italians during WWII. How is this different?

We didn't trust them that much. The 442nd, the Japanese-American unit, fought in Italy, not in the Pacific.

They could have been useful infiltrating Japanese lines.

[snowbird]

Originally Posted by muscogee

Paranoia and misguided martyrs?

Christian martyrs were murdered by evildoers for not renouncing their faith. Muslim 'martyrs' committed suicide in the act of murdering innocents. What's misguided is your claim to a false equivalence.

Paranoia is irrational fear and persecutory delusion. The Armenian Genocide was not a delusion, but a fact. Therefore, being wary of such an evil ideology is not irrational, but highly rational.

Your slanderous suggestion of equivalence is "fishy".

[muscogee]

Originally Posted by HexHead

We didn't trust them that much. The 442nd, the Japanese-American unit, fought in Italy, not in the Pacific.

They could have been useful infiltrating Japanese lines.

But we trusted the Germans and Italians. There's some not so subtle racism operating here. We trust them if they look like us but not otherwise.

[muscogee]

Originally Posted by tuica

And that high fly ball went right over that fielder's head...

So explain it to me. What did I miss?

[snowbird]

Originally Posted by Glock36shooter

... your insane rantings...

... hillbillies are among the most devout...

... 100 years... mark my words.

If you want to make a conservative angry, tell him a lie.
If you want to make a liberal angry, tell him the truth.

The put down signals insecurity. You must be insecure about which of you, 'hillbillies' or yourself, will spend eternity in the smoking versus the non-smoking section (check it out 100 years from now).

Here's a 'hillbilly' song with more wisdom than an Ivy League university full of liberals:

What can they all be thinkin'
Wanna take the cross off of the hill
Put away the pledge of allegiance
Lord, just the thought gives me a chill
They can take God off our money but, in the end oh ain't it funny
How we're all gonna see Him on the Judgement Day.

[Kilrain]

Originally Posted by snowbird

What can they all be thinkin'
Wanna take the cross off of the hill
Put away the pledge of allegiance
Lord, just the thought gives me a chill
They can take God off our money but, in the end oh ain't it funny
How we're all gonna see Him on the Judgement Day.

Well that definitely proves your point........

[Animal Mother]

Originally Posted by snowbird

If you want to make a conservative angry, tell him a lie.
If you want to make a liberal angry, tell him the truth.

By this reasoning, the goal of all your posts is to make conservatives angry.

[CanMan]

Originally Posted by IGotIt

CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?

Harumph! Of course they can. Just ask 'em.

[Glock36shooter]

Originally Posted by snowbird

If you want to make a conservative angry, tell him a lie.
If you want to make a liberal angry, tell him the truth.

The put down signals insecurity. You must be insecure about which of you, 'hillbillies' or yourself, will spend eternity in the smoking versus the non-smoking section (check it out 100 years from now).

Here's a 'hillbilly' song with more wisdom than an Ivy League university full of liberals:

What can they all be thinkin'
Wanna take the cross off of the hill
Put away the pledge of allegiance
Lord, just the thought gives me a chill
They can take God off our money but, in the end oh ain't it funny
How we're all gonna see Him on the Judgement Day.

I am flattered that you would associate my intellect with that which might originate from The Ivy League.

Look I know it bothers you that your religion is dying in this nation. But it's time for it to go. Like I said you guys aren't much different than Muslims. You're trying to make your God happy and you don't care who's toes you step on to do it. That's the selfishness that is born from religion. Granted... you guys did most of your murdering and raping centuries ago. But there are still Christian terrorists even in this modern day and age. But my point is not to say that Christians are killing people on a equal number CURRENTLY as are muslims. Just that too many people have died for the man made invention of God period. It's time for us to grow up and put childish things away. I know you and your kind will go kicking and screaming and dragging you feet and claiming that we're evil and blasphemers and heathens. Whatever... but God's hay day is over. Hillbilly logic aside, we simply don't need him anymore.

[snowbird]

Originally Posted by Glock36shooter

God's hay day is over. Hillbilly logic aside, we simply don't need him anymore.

What's with the royal "we"? Speak for yourself.

There are 2 kinds of people: those who believe in God, and those who will.