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Old 09-29-2012, 13:06   #21
High-Gear
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
CAN CHRISTIANS BE GOOD AMERICANS?

Theologically - no.. Because his allegiance is to Jesus, son of Yahweh ..

Religiously - no... Because no other religion is accepted by His Jesus except Christianity. John (14:6)

Scripturally - no... Because his allegiance is to Christ, Yahweh, and the Holy Spirit.

Geographically - no.. Because his allegiance is to Heaven , to which he turns in prayer.

Socially - no... Because his allegiance to his church that teaches him to judge even other Christians who do not believe as he does.

Politically - no.... Because he must attempt to legislate his religion as the law of the land and doesn't understand that America is made up of multiple beliefs and lack thereof.

Domestically - no... Because he is taught to not treat his woman as an equal. That she is to see him as the representation of God in the home. She is expected to obey her husband.

Intellectually - no.. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based in deist principles and America is in no way founded under the Christian faith.

Philosophically - no.. because Christianity does not allow the belief in any God other than their own. America being a country that is accepting of all religions and all beliefs is distasteful to Christians. The very spirit of America as a great melting pot runs counter to Christian dogma.

Spiritually - no... Because when we declare 'one nation under God, it is meant as the deist God or "Creator" which could be anyone's God however the Christian has attempted to rewrite history to mean it to be Jesus.

They obviously cannot be both 'good' Christians and 'good' Americans. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country and our future. The religious war is bigger than we know or understand!

Footnote: The Christians want to legislate the entire bible. SO FREEDOM IS NOT FREE.
Great post!

I would only ddisagree with the "Spiritually" part as the "Under god" is in fact the Christian God and was put there in the 50's during a wave of anti-Communism ferver. It should be removed from the pledge, as I should not have to recognize someone elses god to pledge allegience to this nation.
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Old 09-29-2012, 13:12   #22
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Originally Posted by IGotIt View Post
CAN MUSLIMS BE GOOD AMERICANS?

Maybe this is why our ‘American’ Muslims are so quiet and not speaking out about any atrocities.

Can a good Muslim be a good American?

Theologically - no.. Because his allegiance is to Allah, The moon god of Arabia ..
I got that far.

A. If not, then neither can a Chrisitian, Jew, Hindu, etc., because they all put their gods above their country. I'm not saying I disagree, just that I can't see a reason to limit it to one religion.

B. "moon god of Arabia?" you realize Muslims are worshippers iof the same god as Jews and Christians, right? They just use an arabic word - just like christians use "god" to mean their god, as well as generically to mean any god, "allah" is the Arabic word for "god" or "The God." Muslims believe in the old testament and accept Jesus as a prophet or wisxe man or something like that.

When it started on that level, I didn;t see much cause to read on.
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Old 09-29-2012, 13:26   #23
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I would rather not find this out too late in the game to matter! I realize that certain individuals of any group can be fine human beings - but think that every western nation that has a large Muslim population has regretted the situation. Cheers.
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Old 09-29-2012, 13:27   #24
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Great post!

I would only ddisagree with the "Spiritually" part as the "Under god" is in fact the Christian God and was put there in the 50's during a wave of anti-Communism ferver. It should be removed from the pledge, as I should not have to recognize someone elses god to pledge allegience to this nation.
I actually don't think a Christian can't make a good American. I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of the post. I think Muslims and Christians and whoever can make for good Americans so long as they are interested in freedom for all at the expense of none.
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Old 09-29-2012, 13:45   #25
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyphenated_American


Former President Theodore Roosevelt in speaking to the largely Irish Catholic Knights of Columbus at Carnegie Hall on Columbus Day 1915, asserted that,[3]
There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all... The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic... There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.
President Woodrow Wilson regarded "hyphenated Americans" with suspicion, saying, "Any man who carries a hyphen about with him carries a dagger that he is ready to plunge into the vitals of this Republic whenever he gets ready."[4][5][6]
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Old 09-29-2012, 13:46   #26
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The only personal experience...

I have with any muslim is a couple years ago when I broke my leg. I went into the hospital on sunday, and got out on Wednesday after having surgery on Monday. I had a guy sharing a room with me for about a day and a half who was a Muslim from Jordan. He was a naturalized citizen who has been here for 16 years, and works at Rockwell technologies in champaign.

We talked a little, I say a litttle because I was mostly so stoned On pain meds I couldn't carry on a conversation. But, A few things about this guy were really cool.

when he was getting readybto go up for his surgery, I heard him pray in arabic, and it touched me. I mean, I heard a sincerity in his prayer that was unmistakable. The guy was seeking God, no doubt. He was extremely polite, humble, and real. We talked about God a little, and one of the things he pointed out was that there is, within every religion, those who want to turn God into a crusading extremist. Very wise.

Lastly, the guy was one of the most considerate people I have ever met. I shared my room with three other people that few days, and no one else so much as spoke a word to me. But this muslim man said to me that he gathered from my phone conversations with my wife that we lived quite a distance from the hospital, and when he checked out, he came over to my bed and offered me his business card and told me that if there was anything at all that I needed that I could call him on his cell phone. A hamburger, a candy bar, something to drink, just call and he would come and bring it to me. Not that I would say I was shocked, more like, I had a suspicion confirmed. They aren't all evil, no more than Tim mcveigh calling himself a Christian makes all Christians evil.

We had lunch together a couple times after that, at which he always insisted on paying. Hhe was a good man, and a good human being. He knew I was a follower of Christ, and I knew he was a Muslim, and we were friends. He never threatened to kill me, or behead me for being an infidel. And I never told him he was going to burn in hell for not believing in Jesus. How bout that?

~ "How about that?" ~

Ya....Good for you and good for him.....


When in Rome "act" like a Roman......and show respect..

When in Jordan do the same ...or get Killed....

Rome seems like a safer place for "all"....why? cause Romans have evolved

***Being honest...No....I have never met one I really liked but was just friendly thats all....actions eyes...body language etc........I have a nose for things....so be it....to each their own.

There is a passage in the Koran where it is fine to lie to Infidels....You better hope your loving "friend" is not a true practitioner or believer....when times get tough things change fast....There is only "One Koran"...not a good one or not a bad one...but just one which all believers read religiously

Good luck

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Old 09-29-2012, 13:53   #27
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Originally Posted by LASTRESORT20 View Post
~ "How about that?" ~

Ya....Good for you and good for him.....


When in Rome "act" like a Roman......and show respect..

When in Jordan do the same ...or get Killed....

Rome seems like a safer place for "all"....why? cause Romans have evolved

***Being honest...No....I have never met one I liked....actions eyes...body language.....I have a nose for things....so be it....

There is a passage in the Koran where it is fine to lie to Infidels....You better hope your loving "friend" is not a true practitioner or believer....when times get tough things change fast....There is only "One Koran"...not a good one or not a bad one...but just one which all believers read religiously

Good luck
Yeah...

I am certain that him paying for lunch, and offering to leave his home, and go out of his way to come and bring me whatever i needed was all a secret plan to get me alone so he could chop my head off. Is there an emoticon for profuse eye roll/face palm?
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Old 09-29-2012, 14:21   #28
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If Google can make a so-called "Arab Spring" and distabilize the Middle East, it isn't such a hard feat to accomplish. The people there are easily distracted by simple propaganda placed in the right place. And that is a kinder tactic to use.
not sure I'm following how that applies, its easier to stir up a crowd/mob than to quiet them down.

Quote:
The more brutal one would be scorched earth for every location sanctioning and protecting Al Queda until no one would dare give them shelter. That can happen from the sky, and requies no ground troop involvement.
London/Dresden/Tokyo didn't work.

Hiroshima/Nagasaki did. Really ready to do that to civilian population centers to get small pockets of Al-Queda within?

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Old 09-29-2012, 14:31   #29
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[quote=IGotIt;19467570]
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Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
Theologically, you cannot be good yourself.

As I pointed out earlier no one is good, but only God. So, you, sir, not a good American either.

If you are concerned about Islam, go and do what God has commanded you to do and witness to them rather than condemn them.
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Theologically speaking back,

Until I grab someone by the hair, yell "Allah is great" while savagely cutting their head off with a long bladed knife, and then hold the severed head up as a trophy, I believe I can condemn rather than accept.
As Christians did to native Americans, or did u forget whites thought them to scalp. Or better yet when Christian crusaders lines the roads to Jerusalem with he severed heads of Muslims.


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Old 09-29-2012, 14:51   #30
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As Christians did to native Americans, or did u forget whites thought them to scalp. Or better yet when Christian crusaders lines the roads to Jerusalem with he severed heads of Muslims.


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Doesn't matter to keep pointing this out. They absolutely refuse to acknowledge the violence and death their religion has brought to the world. They seem to think that because it happened in another century that it's somehow not applicable anymore.

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Old 09-29-2012, 15:02   #31
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[quote=greentriple;19468368]
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As Christians did to native Americans, or did u forget whites thought them to scalp. Or better yet when Christian crusaders lines the roads to Jerusalem with he severed heads of Muslims.


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A strange place to interject your usual racist mantra; but, at any rate, I am not here to defend the actions of Catholicism. Which is ironic, because the whole La Raza movement is replete with Catholics. It is a bit schizophrenic to condemn Catholics in one breath and embrace it as people.
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Old 09-29-2012, 21:42   #32
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The reason we have such a high body count is no one in leadership knows how to properly prosecute a war. The General Grant/D-Day concept of throwing as many warm bodies at a problem doesn't work well in an area with which we have supreme technological supremacy. We spend over a billion dollars a month paying for funneling bodies at a problem and then the aftermath when they come home in bags or permanently broken. Then out of a need for political correcness we put these same people in with 5th columns that regularly assasinate them.

The war has been prosecuted at an extreme indiference to the lives of American troops.

If you want to stop a group of people who hide in a populous make it so untenable for the populous that the deliver to you the terrorist group either dead or alive. This war could have been over a long long time ago.
Technological superiority vice our surge has nothing to do with why "the surge" isn't working in Afghanistan.

Your comment about "political correctness" only shows your lack of knowledge on how COIN and FID work.

Your comment about fear being the prime motivator on the populace only shows your lack of understanding of the psychology behind the insurgency and the psychology behind the actions of the people of Afghanistan.

Your comment about the war being done a long time ago shows your naivete about war.

Here's a couple points for consideration:
- Afghanistan hasn't been a functional country since 1979.
- Prior to 1979, Afghanistan's economy worked because it had infrastructure in place to get water moving, and it was still a central-Asian third world country at that.
- Since 1979 Afghanistan has experienced 32 years of warfare that have left almost all infrastructure gone.
- The Taliban now look at al Qaeda and blame them for their loss of power in the half of Afghanistan that they directly controlled during their heyday.
- Bin Laden was a financier. Al Qaeda was basically the sponsor name that was slapped on anything that was in any way associated with the organization or its offshoots.
- Now, Al Qaeda is no longer just that, but the universal catch-all adopt-all name that people take up because it's known.
- Al Qaeda operated out of the poorest, least controlled countries in the Muslim world.
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That can happen from the sky, and requies (sic) no ground troop involvement.
No, I'm sorry, but it can't, Curtis Lemay.

Who gathers intelligence? Who lazes targets? Who comes in and does the psyops work afterwards? Who guards the people from reprisal after they give us actionable intelligence?
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Old 09-29-2012, 23:14   #33
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No, I'm sorry, but it can't, Curtis Lemay.
The mistake we always is trying to make the world safe for democracy. Don't go to war unless we have to. If we must fight, destroy their infrastructure and let them live in caves until they're ready for peace. If they come out send in the drones. We're way ahead of where we were in LeMay's time. BTW, we didn't try it in LeMay's time because we were afraid of the USSR and China retaliating. That's not on the current horizon.
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Old 09-30-2012, 01:05   #34
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
Doesn't matter to keep pointing this out. They absolutely refuse to acknowledge the violence and death their religion has brought to the world. They seem to think that because it happened in another century that it's somehow not applicable anymore.
And it doesn't matter how many times anyone points out that you and other disturbed atheists love to distort facts.
You continue to blame religion for the deeds of people. You atheists continue to use the Mosaic laws that are not Christian doctrine, to justify your obsessed hatred. Just like the early church abused those laws.

http://bible.org/article/mosaic-law-...-new-testament

http://www.trektorome.com/christians...y-the-old-law/

http://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-law.html


It's funny that some atheists say Christians killed native Americans, that Nazis were Christians, that Mexican drug cartel people are Christians, and that all the killings along the Mexican border are committed by Christians. I've even heard some say if one is born in a Christian majority country, they are Christian and that anything bad that person does is a Christian act.
I suppose the atheists here are all Christian then.

I've seen some really strange and bizarre attitudes and behavior over the years, but the strange and bizarre attitudes and behavior in this forum is monumental.
Whine and moan all you like, there's nothing you can do to change people's beliefs. Just continue demonstrating how mentally disturbed some atheists are.
Maybe vandalizing churches and synagogues might give you some satisfaction.
And as I have pointed out numerous times, more atrocities have been committed throughout history by the non-religious than by the religious across the board. but of course fools are blind to that fact.

I leave this song as it is fitting to some of the atheists here.

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Old 09-30-2012, 02:42   #35
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There is a passage in the Koran where it is fine to lie to Infidels
Where is this passage? Could you cite the specific surah?
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Old 09-30-2012, 02:45   #36
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And it doesn't matter how many times anyone points out that you and other disturbed atheists love to distort facts.
You continue to blame religion for the deeds of people. You atheists continue to use the Mosaic laws that are not Christian doctrine, to justify your obsessed hatred. Just like the early church abused those laws.
Which Mosaic laws are not Christian doctrine? On what basis do you make this determination?
Quote:
It's funny that some atheists say Christians killed native Americans,
They did.
Quote:
that Nazis were Christians,
They were.
Quote:
that Mexican drug cartel people are Christians,
They are.
Quote:
and that all the killings along the Mexican border are committed by Christians. I've even heard some say if one is born in a Christian majority country, they are Christian and that anything bad that person does is a Christian act.
How is this different than people like snowbird declaring any crime that happens in a Muslim majority nation to be an act of Islam?
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Old 09-30-2012, 04:51   #37
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I haven't (and won't) read this entire thread.

The title is enough to tell me that it's nothing more that a bigot's rant.
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Old 09-30-2012, 05:51   #38
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Which Mosaic laws are not Christian doctrine? On what basis do you make this determination?
They did.
They were.
They are.
How is this different than people like snowbird declaring any crime that happens in a Muslim majority nation to be an act of Islam?
The Nazis were NOT Christians. Check your facts. The Nazis were under their own religion based in Christianity and paganism. Hitler and Ava Braughn killed themselves on Valpergus night in a Pagan ritual called the Endura. The rallies, mysticism, etc., all Pagan ideas. The Nazis practiced paganism and told people they were Christian. It was all about deception. And as for Vlad the Impaler? Yes...Christian. And he did what he had to do to keep the Turks from invading his homeland. Vlad didn't live in a time of political correctness like we do. And if you actually think that ANYONE working for a drug cartel is a practicing Christian you are deluded.



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Old 09-30-2012, 06:09   #39
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I would rather not find this out too late in the game to matter! I realize that certain individuals of any group can be fine human beings - but think that every western nation that has a large Muslim population has regretted the situation. Cheers.
Good post!

Key concept!

But unfortunately, there are none so blind as those who will not see (notice some of the dhimmi posts in this thread). Before 9/11, I car-pooled with some different people. I recall a Hindu lady who told me that, sadly (as far as she was concerned), you can never be "fast friends" with a Muslim. She meant that you can't really trust them.

A Russian guy basically said the same thing. "A Muslim is a very dangerous person" were his exact words. He spoke of populations in Central Asia where Muslims and Christians had lived peacefully for centuries, until suddenly, the Muslims started 'getting religion', taking their Koran seriously (it baldly commands, 'Slay the infidel'), and without warning began murdering Christians.

How do we read minds? How do we distinguish peaceful Muslims from the Mohammed-imitators? (Remember, Mohammed had a whole Jewish tribe beheaded, and wrote the Koran, which tells Muslims they must wage jihad until the entire earth is subjugated to Islam). The fact is we can't read Muslim minds. On top of that, there is the Koranic doctrine of takiyya -deliberate deception to gain advantage over infidels, making it harder to know which Muslims, if any, to trust, and how far they can be trusted, for how long.

Therefore, stop ALL Muslim immigration.

No need for draconian measures against Muslim communities suspected of harboring terrorists if we don't let Muslim communities get established here in the first place. No mass killing, no guilt. Just bar them admission now to prevent civil strife in the not-too-distant future (remember, their birthrate far exceeds ours. Do we want our grandchildren to have to fight for their lives on account of our foolishness?).
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Old 09-30-2012, 06:50   #40
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The Nazis were NOT Christians. Check your facts. The Nazis were under their own religion based in Christianity and paganism.
So they were Christians then. Do I really need to post the "Gott Mit Uns" belt buckle pics again?
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Hitler and Ava Braughn killed themselves on Valpergus night in a Pagan ritual called the Endura.
What is the source of the name for Walpurgisnacht? What group practiced Endura?

Your historical accuracy might be slightly more compelling if you didn't misspell both of Eva Braun's names. As for their suicides, the timing probably had far more to do with the approaching Russian troops than any religious ritual.

Quote:
The rallies, mysticism, etc., all Pagan ideas. The Nazis practiced paganism and told people they were Christian. It was all about deception. And as for Vlad the Impaler? Yes...Christian. And he did what he had to do to keep the Turks from invading his homeland. Vlad didn't live in a time of political correctness like we do. And if you actually think that ANYONE working for a drug cartel is a practicing Christian you are deluded.
How could anyone question such compelling evidence. If we were to survey members of the various narcotic cartels, what would they tell us about their religious beliefs?
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