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Old 09-29-2012, 12:24   #1
Backfire_Tx
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Tired of .39 cents a pop. What reloader?

Ok, i bought a Glock 23 back in May. Thought the "novelty" would wear off after a while, but its nearly October and it has not. I go out and shoot probably 70-100 rounds per week - practice various improvement of skills with gun. I make my "cheaper then dirt" store "ammo run" so much that the guy in there knows my kids first name.

Anyway, i have a glock 23 40. and want to reload for plinking my metal targets in an affordable way (my wife is starting to take notice of the checkbook drain)! I want to have similar loads to my SD 165's @ 1150 fps.

What reloader would you guys recommend for a newbie? also anyone know what the cost of reloading is per round - including the brass, primer etc? I then could figure the pay back of the equipment out.

Last edited by Backfire_Tx; 09-29-2012 at 12:26..
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Old 09-29-2012, 12:31   #2
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RCBS has a calculator that you plug all the info in and it will tell you PPR , I couldn't get the app to work on my phone but on my computer it worked.
As for the brand no one will agree so it's really about how much you want to spend, I use Lee, its cheaper to start and has worked great for me for over 10 years.
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Old 09-29-2012, 12:35   #3
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http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show....php?t=1027887

After I wrote that I bought LnL and it was a total PITA. I now own a LCT and a 650. Having owned nearly every press in the sticky I would get a Dillon or a LCT.
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Old 09-29-2012, 12:54   #4
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70-100 rounds a week an LCT would fit your needs perfectly to start out with. You could easily cut you round cost by 50% or more even with inflated local gunstore component costs.
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Old 09-29-2012, 12:56   #5
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Reloading only makes sense if you buy in volume.

Precision Delta 165 gr FMJ cost $120/1000 and there is a penalty if you don't buy in multiples of 2000. Not much of a penalty but nevertheless...

Find somebody else who wants the same bullets and split the cost.

So, the costs are
Bullet : $120/1000
Primer: $30/1000
Powder: $18/1000 in 1# cans. 8# cans are cheaper

TOTAL: $168/1000 or $0.168/round.

You can bring the cost down to around $0.12 if you shoot lead bullets. Whether you do this in a Glock barrel or change to an aftermarket barrel will depend on which side of the "shooting lead in a Glock barrel" debate you come down on.

If you shoot 5000 rounds per year, you stand to save $220/1000 or $1100 per year.

Now all you have to do is decide how much of that savings you want to invest in equipment and how much time you want to spend loading ammo. There is a pretty direct correlation between equipment cost and reloading speed.

At 100 rounds per week, even the least expensive single stage press will be adequate if you don't mind spending 2 or 3 hours reloading. With something like an LCT, you would spend about 30 minutes creating 100 reloads. On a Dillon 550 it would take about 12 minutes and on a Dillon 650, you would be done in 5.

Another thing to consider: After the equipment is paid for, the number of rounds reloaded will increase such that the total amount of $ spent on ammo will remain unchanged. You will just shoot twice as much. It just seems to work out that way...

Read the stickies - there is a lot of good information in them.

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Last edited by F106 Fan; 09-29-2012 at 12:59..
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Old 09-29-2012, 13:47   #6
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Buy in some kind of bulk, you are reloading for 50% of cheap factory. For 100rds/wk, a Lee CT is fine, even a good single stage can do 100rds/wk in less than 2hrs total time. Get The ABC of Reloading, read it, get a good relaoding manual like the lyman or Speer, read it. You'll have a better idea of what you need vs want. IMO, cost of gear is never the issue. We all spend far more on the ammo & rarely put a though to the high cost. Not that it's needed, but a fully tricked 650 is under $1200. At 400rds of 40/m, you would pay for it in about 18m. SO unless you are planning a very short life, cost of quality gear is just not a big issue compared to expensive factory ammo.
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Last edited by fredj338; 09-29-2012 at 13:49..
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Old 09-29-2012, 14:01   #7
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I've been reloading slightly less than two months. I am no expert. I bought the Lee Classic turret press. I reload 9mm and .40 S&W. For the 9mm loads, my cost is .15 cents per round, that is about $8.00 per 50 round box. It breaks down like this:

1000 Cases Once fired @ $32.00
1000 primers @ $32.00
1000 bullets @ $82.00
1 LB of powder @21.00 using 4.3 grains per round

But, the biggest reason for doing, it is to get complete control over the performance of the rounds. I am not doing anything close to competition shooting. But, since I started reloading, my shot groups have improved by 30%. I could not believe the increase of my performance using the rounds I've produced.

I am still totally geeked over the being to make rounds. But, that's just me.

Anyway, understand that you are going have to work through issues with the rounds with you initially start. Believe me, I have been on this forum heavily, working through issues with my loads. But, there are some fantastic guys here that will help you get the best out of your reloading. Yeah, there is the expense of buying the gear and setting up and a space to reload. Those are one-time costs. After that, it's the costs of the consumables.

Here is something that an old timer told me; and I am passing it along. If you interested in learning how to make rounds and addressing the precision and details associated with the process, then by all means, learn to reload. But, If you are only interested in getting your hands on 1000 rounds, go and buy 1000 rounds.

Do it! You will be glad you did.
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Old 09-29-2012, 14:08   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backfire_Tx View Post
What reloader would you guys recommend for a newbie? also anyone know what the cost of reloading is per round - including the brass, primer etc? I then could figure the pay back of the equipment out.
The same reloader that I would recomend for something that has reloaded for a while. If you look at both the national surveys from the two major action pistol sports: USPSA and IDPA the dominate reloader is a Blue one: Dillion. It's not even close on which reloader to choose:

In 2010, Dillion had 97% of the reloaders used by people that attended the nationals in USPSA Production/Limited tournament. In 2011 the results were virtually the same 96.7 %.

2010 IDPA Nationals Equipment survey: Dillion 196 machines, the next closest was 13.

Just buy a Dillion and forget it.
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Old 09-29-2012, 14:10   #9
Gpruitt54
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Reloading cost calculator

There are some reloading costs calculators for Smart phones. They do a really good job at letting see what your loads will cost based on the cost of the consumables:
  • Bullets
  • primers
  • Powder (Figuring out which one works best for you, can be challenge, but worthwhile.)
  • Cases
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Old 09-29-2012, 14:21   #10
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My opinion:

Buy a dillon 650 w/ casefeeder
Buy 8lb jug of powder and 10k primers from powdervalley
Buy 2k 'once-fired' pieces of brass
Buy 2k of your favorite bullet from montana gold

I bought a 550 when i started, but i wish i would've bought the 650. Dillon makes a high quality machine and it's worth every penny. It seems like a large investment up front, but if you enjoy shooting and shoot often, it will be paid off in less than a year. Mine paid for itself within 6 months and is the best investment ive made when it comes to shooting. Good luck.
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Old 09-29-2012, 14:23   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gpruitt54 View Post
There are some reloading costs calculators for Smart phones. They do a really good job at letting see what your loads will cost based on the cost of the consumables:
  • Bullets
  • primers
  • Powder (Figuring out which one works best for you, can be challenge, but worthwhile.)
  • Cases
Cases though don't really get factored properly unless you are leaving them behind. Case cost should be amortized over at least 8 reloads. Many, like 45acp, can be loaded in excess of 15X. This puts once fired cases at a cost of less than 1c/rd. Re suing th ecase is what makes reloading cost effective. If you are buying cases, then you might as well buy factory ammo.
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Last edited by fredj338; 09-29-2012 at 14:24..
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Old 09-29-2012, 14:27   #12
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Originally Posted by F106 Fan View Post
Reloading only makes sense if you buy in volume.

.

Richard
I assume you are referring to the OP's situation and not as an overall statement about reloading.
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Old 09-29-2012, 14:29   #13
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Here is my opportunity to vent on something. For all the hobbies I have been involved in order the years, there is one common factor and it's this.

People who have been doing the hobby for a while always try to convince a beginner to spend unnecessary sums on equipment intended for a more experienced hobbyists. I think I saw a post that reverenced people who compete in IPDA events. Yeah, sure. Those guys are likely, experienced shooters and reloaders. The guy who started this threat is considering starting to reload. He can do that without buying an expense reloading press. I understand that some gear is better than others. There is always something better. as an example, how would buy a 16 year old newly minted driver a 60,000.00 car? Even if you could afford it, it would be stupid to do so.

Start with a moderately prices turret press. On the other hand, I would not recommend a single stage press. It simply takes way to long to produce rounds that way.

Buy an expense press only after you've been loading a while and you've lived with the mid-priced gear for a while. I bought my Lee Classic and only the items I needed (not a kit) for a total of $234.00 on Ebay. So, If I discover that reloading is not for me, I have not tossed a silly amount of money at gear.

Oh, did I say that I am getting fantastic performance from the loads I make with my $234.00 totaly low-price gear.

Don't spend a lot at first. Do that later, after you have some milage on that cheaper gear

Last edited by Gpruitt54; 09-29-2012 at 14:45..
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Old 09-29-2012, 14:36   #14
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Cases though don't really get factored properly unless you are leaving them behind. Case cost should be amortized over at least 8 reloads. Many, like 45acp, can be loaded in excess of 15X. This puts once fired cases at a cost of less than 1c/rd. Re suing th ecase is what makes reloading cost effective. If you are buying cases, then you might as well buy factory ammo.
I agree. That is why I buy once fired cases. I am able to recover my brass at the range I use. So once I go through my brass for the second fired batch... Actually, I have no idea how to calculate the case costs for the second time fired.

How would that work? Do I take the cases out of the calculation all together at the second firing.
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Old 09-29-2012, 14:53   #15
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Originally Posted by Gpruitt54 View Post
Here is my opportunity to vent on something. For all the hobbies I have been involved in order the years, there is one common factor and it's this.

People who have been doing the hobby for a while always try to convince a beginner to spend unnecessary sums on equipment intended for a more experienced hobbyists. I think I saw a post that reverenced people who compete in IPDA events. Yeah, sure. Those guys are likely, experienced shooters and reloaders. The guy who started this threat is considering starting to reload. He can do that without buying an expense reloading press. I understand that some gear is better than others. There is always something better. as an example, how would buy a 16 year old newly minted driver a 60,000.00 car? Even if you could afford it, it would be stupid to do so.

Start with a moderately prices turret press. On the other hand, I would not recommend a single stage press. It simply takes way to long to produce rounds that way.

Buy an expense press only after you've been loading a while and you've lived with the mid-priced gear for a while. I bought my Lee Classic and only the items I needed (not a kit) for a total of $234.00 on Ebay. So, If I discover that reloading is not for me, I have not tossed a silly amount of money at gear.
I'm a fairly new reloader (<2 years) and i completely disagree with this statement. As long as you KNOW you enjoy shooting and plan to make it a long term hobby, i suggest you buy the best right off the bat. Buy once, cry once.

If you buy a 'middle-of-the-road press', i guarantee 6 months from now you will want to upgrade. This means you take a loss and deal with the hassle of selling, or you put the press away and never use it. Waste of $$ IMO.

Realistically, with the costs of guns, ammo, gear, range time, etc... even if you buy a 1050 with all the bells and whistles, that investment is a very small number relative to the cost of the hobby as a whole. This is especially true when you consider the press will eventually pay for itself.....sooner rather than later if you shoot a lot.
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Old 09-29-2012, 15:04   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gpruitt54 View Post
Here is my opportunity to vent on something. For all the hobbies I have been involved in order the years, there is one common factor and it's this.

People who have been doing the hobby for a while always try to convince a beginner to spend unnecessary sums on equipment intended for a more experienced hobbyists. I think I saw a post that reverenced people who compete in IPDA events. Yeah, sure. Those guys are likely, experienced shooters and reloaders. The guy who started this threat is considering starting to reload. He can do that without buying an expense reloading press. I understand that some gear is better than others. There is always something better. as an example, how would buy a 16 year old newly minted driver a 60,000.00 car? Even if you could afford it, it would be stupid to do so.

Start with a moderately prices turret press. On the other hand, I would not recommend a single stage press. It simply takes way to long to produce rounds that way.

Buy an expense press only after you've been loading a while and you've lived with the mid-priced gear for a while. I bought my Lee Classic and only the items I needed (not a kit) for a total of $234.00 on Ebay. So, If I discover that reloading is not for me, I have not tossed a silly amount of money at gear.

Oh, did I say that I am getting fantastic performance from the loads I make with my $234.00 totaly low-price gear.

Don't spend a lot at first. Do that later, after you have some milage on that cheaper gear

Or you advise someone to buy something like a Lee Pro 1000 or a Lee Loadmaster that requires tinkering, they get so fed up with it that they give up on reloading. I suggest the Lee Classic Turret or the cast version of it as the cheapest, no sense with a single stage for handgun reloading, and in reality unless I'm doing extremely accurate loads I use the 550 for rifle reloading.

Oh and another thought, you get a better ROI on the dillon presses, they retain their value better then other presses.
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Old 09-29-2012, 15:05   #17
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I assume you are referring to the OP's situation and not as an overall statement about reloading.
Specific to the case at hand - 100 or so .40s per week. That's the topic.

If a person just wants to experiment with a pound of powder and 1000 primers, sure, buy locally.

But once they have settled on a brand of primers and perhaps a specific powder, they should consider ordering a large enough quantity that the cost savings will cover the $27.50 HazMat fee from Powder Valley. It isn't hard!

This applies to pistol and precision rifle. 8# of IMR 4064 will only load about 1300 .308 rounds. That's a lot through a bolt action rifle but for the same $, I can only get about half as much powder locally. So, the second 600 loads are free! If I ever start loading for my M1A, that 8# can will drain out pretty quick!

Same with primers. If I buy in lots of 5k, I save at least half the cost of locally purchased primers. Sure, 5k Federal Match LR primers are going to last a LONG time but the second 2500 are free!

The problem is, as always, cash flow. Is it worth tying money up in supplies that won't be used in the next week, month, year or decade? With all the uncertainty around, I prefer to have supplies that will cover me for a very long time.

For me, the higher volume makes all the sense in the world when I consider pistol. 10k of primers seems like a lot but it won't last a year. 8# of powder seems outrageous but it only loads 11,000 rounds.

Each reloader needs to evaluate the costs and cash flow. I would rather have bullets than cash!

Richard


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Old 09-29-2012, 15:07   #18
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I'm a fairly new reloader (<2 years) and i completely disagree with this statement. As long as you KNOW you enjoy shooting and plan to make it a long term hobby, i suggest you buy the best right off the bat. Buy once, cry once.

If you buy a 'middle-of-the-road press', i guarantee 6 months from now you will want to upgrade. This means you take a loss and deal with the hassle of selling, or you put the press away and never use it. Waste of $$ IMO.

Realistically, with the costs of guns, ammo, gear, range time, etc... even if you buy a 1050 with all the bells and whistles, that investment is a very small number relative to the cost of the hobby as a whole. This is especially true when you consider the press will eventually pay for itself.....sooner rather than later if you shoot a lot.
The operative word is IF.

I understand what you are saying. I don't totally disagree; only partially.

Ebay is full of expensive; all in; experiments that did not work out as planned, ending with selling the gear at a loss. For me it's a philosophy. Once I am convinced of the longevity of any endeavor, it is at that point, I will consider buying the high-end, but not before I've made that calculation.

I've been reloading for almost 2 months. We'll see if I feel compelled to buy a more expensive press sooner rather than later. I have nothing to gauge against. No one I know reloads.

Last edited by Gpruitt54; 09-29-2012 at 15:24..
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Old 09-29-2012, 15:10   #19
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My opinion:

Buy a dillon 650 w/ casefeeder
Buy 8lb jug of powder and 10k primers from powdervalley
Buy 2k 'once-fired' pieces of brass
Buy 2k of your favorite bullet from montana gold

I bought a 550 when i started, but i wish i would've bought the 650. Dillon makes a high quality machine and it's worth every penny. It seems like a large investment up front, but if you enjoy shooting and shoot often, it will be paid off in less than a year. Mine paid for itself within 6 months and is the best investment ive made when it comes to shooting. Good luck.
I would certainly look at Precision Delta for bullets. They are cheaper than Montana Gold.

Richard
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Old 09-29-2012, 15:20   #20
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Or you advise someone to buy something like a Lee Pro 1000 or a Lee Loadmaster that requires tinkering, they get so fed up with it that they give up on reloading. I suggest the Lee Classic Turret or the cast version of it as the cheapest, no sense with a single stage for handgun reloading, and in reality unless I'm doing extremely accurate loads I use the 550 for rifle reloading.

Oh and another thought, you get a better ROI on the dillon presses, they retain their value better then other presses.
^^^^^ I agree with this 100%

Reloading isn't much of a hobby. SHOOTING is the hobby and reloading makes it possible. I absolutely guarantee that if you don't shoot, you won't reload.

So the question isn't whether a person LIKES reloading. If they want to shoot in quantity, they better learn to at least tolerate it!

The way to make it tolerable is to have decent equipment. In terms of production rate, I would consider the Lee Classic Turret as the absolute bottom end for pistol reloading equipment. With the LCT it is possible to crank out a couple of hundred rounds per hour for an investment less than $300. That's about $200 for the Kempf kit, $70 for the Dillon Eliminator scale and a few bucks for gadgets.

Buying $600 worth of factory ammo (about 33 boxes) will have paid for the equipment and the components to reload.

Richard
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Last edited by F106 Fan; 09-29-2012 at 18:48..
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