GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-28-2012, 13:10   #26
devildog2067
Senior Member
 
devildog2067's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Near Chicago, IL
Posts: 15,761
Quote:
Originally Posted by FCastle88 View Post
The dealer's insurance will most likely pay the damages
I used to run a car dealership. If I filed a claim for something like this with my insurance company they would have laughed at me.

I can't say what sort of personal liability insurance my dealership's owner carried, but I can say that the dealership's policy did not cover things like this (where there is alleged criminal conduct). The dealership insurance is for times when the grease monkey forgets to tighten the lug nuts and a wheel falls off.

Last edited by devildog2067; 09-28-2012 at 13:12..
devildog2067 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 13:13   #27
NeverMore1701
Platinum Membership
Fear no evil.
 
NeverMore1701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Amarillo, Tx
Posts: 27,486
Quote:
Originally Posted by fowl intent View Post
Sounds to me like the buyer knew the seller made a mistake, and did everything he could do to capitalize on it. Why else would he have immediately gone and gotten a cashier's check to pay off the entire balance when he signed the new contract.

The dealership screwed up twice, once on the initial mistake, and the second time by getting law enforcement involved in what is really a civil issue. But for buyer to prevail, he has to come to court with "clean hands", and I don't think he has them.
I paid for my truck the day I bought it. Why shouldn't he?
__________________
And if we should die tonight
We should all die together
Raise a glass of wine
For the last time
NeverMore1701 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 13:15   #28
Kilrain
Señor Member
 
Kilrain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: On the road to Shambala
Posts: 1,980
Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
It's not going to be the pocket of the employee who made the mistake, I'll tell you that much.
By mistake you mean the $5600 clerical error, not the employee who told the police the car was stolen when, in fact, it was not, right?
__________________
O, that a man might know the end of this day's business ere it come!
But it sufficeth that the day will end and then the end is known.
And if we do meet again, why, we shall smile;
And if not, why then, this parting was well made.
Kilrain is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 13:17   #29
FCastle88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 1,337
Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
Not for $5600, it's not.
Negotiating $5.6K off of $40K American brand SUV isn't exactly unheard of, they could have given him a good deal to make the sale then tried scamming the full price out of him. There's also a few comments that claim to be past customers of the dealership who say the dealership tried the same thing with them, minus the actual arrest. Given that it is a fairly common scam, and other customers say they tried the same thing in the past, I'd say at worst the buyer managed to get one over on the dealership while they were trying to get one over on him.
FCastle88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 13:19   #30
glock_19guy1983
Senior Member
 
glock_19guy1983's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: dixie
Posts: 3,712
I hope he gets every cent of the 2.2M. The dealership should also have to pay his legal fees. With the arrest record he has a HUGE black ball against his name for a medical career. I think settlement would be a bad move on his part. It is easy to turn a jury against a sleazy car salesman.
__________________
"Our situation illustrates the American idea that governments rest on the consent of the governed, and that it is the right of the people to alter or abolish them whenever they become destructive of the ends for which they were established."
glock_19guy1983 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 13:23   #31
John's 26
Senior Member
 
John's 26's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Honky Tonk U.
Posts: 824
I had just the opposite happen...

Long story short, several years ago, we had traded in an, at the time, newer GMC pickup for a new, upgraded version of the same truck. We agreed on a price, in writing, and we bought the truck, signed the contract, and left the dealership. Something kept knawing at me though. The next morning, I went over the contract and they had errored and overcharged me by about $1,500 (they upped the sale price and upped the trade-in value to make the deal look better on paper, but did not up the trade-in value enough to match the deal I agreed to). That afternoon, I asked to speak to the sales manager and, contract and in-writing agreement in hand, explained the situation. He took the paperwork (copies BTW, not original) to the back to talk with the finance guy. Came back a few moments later and told me to hang on while they fixed it so I could sign a new corrected contract. No questions asked.

In the finance guys office, he showed me their copy of the agreement, showed me where they screwed up on the contract, handed me a new contract, which we went over to be sure it was correct, and I re-signed. They also apologized and gave me 3 free oil changes for my trouble. Now keep in mind we had bought several vehicles from this dealer over the years, and they always gave me a fair deal.

John
__________________
"Very funny Scotty, will you please beam down our clothes now!"
John's 26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 13:24   #32
CitizenOfDreams
Senior Member
 
CitizenOfDreams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 8,117
Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
They certainly should be financially responsible. The question is, did they do $2.2M in damages?
That's for the court to decide. The amount will undoubtedly be negotiated to a smaller number, so 2.2 million is a perfectly sane starting point.

Just out of curiousity, how high would you estimate the damages if someone made you ineligible to work at CERN?
CitizenOfDreams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 13:27   #33
427
 
427's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: KUMSC
Posts: 7,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by fowl intent View Post
Sounds to me like the buyer knew the seller made a mistake, and did everything he could do to capitalize on it. Why else would he have immediately gone and gotten a cashier's check to pay off the entire balance when he signed the new contract.

The dealership screwed up twice, once on the initial mistake, and the second time by getting law enforcement involved in what is really a civil issue. But for buyer to prevail, he has to come to court with "clean hands", and I don't think he has them.
Once, I literally ran across the street to the bank to pay off a car I bought an hour or so earlier.
__________________
Death twitches my ear. "Live," he says, "I am coming."
Virgil, Minor Poems

Enjoy yourself. It's later than you think.
427 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 13:27   #34
devildog2067
Senior Member
 
devildog2067's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Near Chicago, IL
Posts: 15,761
Quote:
Originally Posted by FCastle88 View Post
Given that it is a fairly common scam
I'm not going to pretend that there aren't sleazy car dealers out there, or that there aren't scams out there. Most of the reason why I left the business was that I was tired of lying to people.

That said, this is not at all a "common" scam. Once someone's signed papers and rolled off the lot, they're an owner. Any attempt to re-sign papers can just as easily end up with the person giving the car back. That's a far more likely outcome (I know, I've had to do it many times) than getting a person to sign a new contract for more money.

And $5600 on a $40k car is approaching 15% of the LTV. 99% of the time, even if a dealership wanted to try to scam someone in this way, they couldn't get the scam bought.

Car dealerships simply don't engage in illegal activity very often. There's very little upside. The car business is pretty lucrative as it is--every time a car rolls off the lot, the dealership makes ~$2500 worth of profit (on average) one way or another. An extra $5600 on a single car deal is definitely worth negotiating for, but is definitely NOT worth losing a deal for. In the big picture it simply doesn't matter. It doesn't move the needle at all.
devildog2067 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 13:29   #35
Mayhem like Me
Semper Paratus
 
Mayhem like Me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,152
Blog Entries: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinspeed View Post
I agree the dealeer should pay but I'm not quite sure it should be 2.2 million.
Think about what it would be worth to you a law abiding citizen if you were arrested for no reason, strip searched, then had to bond out on a made up charge where a valid sales contract was signed by both parties.


This was a CYA for the manager to cover his rear on a contract he made a mistake on and knew he would have to eat. It is in fact a false report of a crime and he should be charged.


IF he porvided false information to sweeten the PC for the warrant that would be another charge, I can tell you for a fact our agency would never investigate a clain like this given the circumstances in the article, I am very suspicious of what information he gave police.

The dealership has what attorneys call"exposure" in this matter.

2.2 Million seems excessive they want it to settle in the low six figures I'm sure...
__________________
How do you establish intent?
Well when a naked man is chasing a woman down an alley with a butcher knife and a hard on, I figure he's not collecting for the red cross...Inspector H. Callahan

Last edited by Mayhem like Me; 09-28-2012 at 13:33..
Mayhem like Me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 13:30   #36
devildog2067
Senior Member
 
devildog2067's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Near Chicago, IL
Posts: 15,761
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitizenOfDreams View Post
That's for the court to decide. The amount will undoubtedly be negotiated to a smaller number, so 2.2 million is a perfectly sane starting point.
The post I responded to said that he deserved "every cent" of the $2.2M.

Quote:
Just out of curiousity, how high would you estimate the damages if someone made you ineligible to work at CERN?
The damages couldn't be measured in dollars--I'd lose a unique opportunity, there's only one CERN. Honestly, however, working at CERN (or anywhere, as a particle physicist or physics professor) doesn't pay well at all. I do it part-time, now, and I have another job that pays my bills.
devildog2067 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 13:42   #37
JohnBT
NRA Patron
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 6,255
"If you can afford to pay cash, in essence, then why finance?"

To qualify for a promotion of some sort.

I got a free tv once with a new car purchase, but only because I financed. I had the money for the car in checking, but took the tv and then paid off the loan as soon as I got the paperwork. There weren't any fees involved or penalties, so my only cost was a stamp to mail a check.
JohnBT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 13:50   #38
Mayhem like Me
Semper Paratus
 
Mayhem like Me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,152
Blog Entries: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
The post I responded to said that he deserved "every cent" of the $2.2M.



The damages couldn't be measured in dollars--I'd lose a unique opportunity, there's only one CERN. Honestly, however, working at CERN (or anywhere, as a particle physicist or physics professor) doesn't pay well at all. I do it part-time, now, and I have another job that pays my bills.
While the damages could not be measured in dollars, that is the only way a court can make you whole.


Once that person was printed they now have an FBI number showing the arrest.

This will take years and many hours of attorney fees to straighten out and won't happen overnight.

Say a job opportunity arises, all nurses I know have state licencing requirments and that will involve a criminal records check that will come back with an arrest for a felony in this case.

It is not something that will go away in a year.
__________________
How do you establish intent?
Well when a naked man is chasing a woman down an alley with a butcher knife and a hard on, I figure he's not collecting for the red cross...Inspector H. Callahan
Mayhem like Me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 13:50   #39
G23Gen4.40
.40 Rocks
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
Easy to give away other peoples' money, eh?

Whose pocket is the 2.2 million going to come out of? It's not going to be the pocket of the employee who made the mistake, I'll tell you that much.
No the employee will be fired, the employer who hired him will have to pay. 2.2 ain't enough in my opinion.
G23Gen4.40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 14:07   #40
FCastle88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 1,337
Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
I'm not going to pretend that there aren't sleazy car dealers out there, or that there aren't scams out there. Most of the reason why I left the business was that I was tired of lying to people.

That said, this is not at all a "common" scam. Once someone's signed papers and rolled off the lot, they're an owner. Any attempt to re-sign papers can just as easily end up with the person giving the car back. That's a far more likely outcome (I know, I've had to do it many times) than getting a person to sign a new contract for more money.

And $5600 on a $40k car is approaching 15% of the LTV. 99% of the time, even if a dealership wanted to try to scam someone in this way, they couldn't get the scam bought.

Car dealerships simply don't engage in illegal activity very often. There's very little upside. The car business is pretty lucrative as it is--every time a car rolls off the lot, the dealership makes ~$2500 worth of profit (on average) one way or another. An extra $5600 on a single car deal is definitely worth negotiating for, but is definitely NOT worth losing a deal for. In the big picture it simply doesn't matter. It doesn't move the needle at all.
A google search comes up with quite a few complaints about this scam, and warnings about it on several car buying tips and top car scam sites. Several posters on here have posted stories of dealers attempting this scam, both in this thread and others. Several comments on the article claim that this same dealership has tried the same thing in the past. I'd say it's more common than you want to think or admit.

I already said several times the buyer is under no obligation to sign a new contract, that's what makes attempting to get them to do so a scam. You say it like the buyer's only two options are to sign a new contract or return the car, when in fact in most cases they can simply tell the dealer to pound sand and keep the vehicle and the original contract. If the buyer is smart they know they don't have to sign a new contract, but not all buyers are smart, and as I said sometimes they'll trick the buyer into bringing the vehicle in for a free service or something and then refuse to return it. I never said attempting to get the buyer to sign a new contract was illegal, the dealer is free to ask them to do so, the buyer is free to say no. What is illegal is having him falsely arrested for not doing so.
FCastle88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 14:20   #41
devildog2067
Senior Member
 
devildog2067's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Near Chicago, IL
Posts: 15,761
Quote:
Originally Posted by FCastle88 View Post
You say it like the buyer's only two options are to sign a new contract or return the car, when in fact in most cases they can simply tell the dealer to pound sand and keep the vehicle and the original contract.
Depends on what's wrong with the original contract. I've never attempted to pull this "scam" but I have definitely had to bring people in to re-sign before. In most cases, what you say about the person being able to keep the car isn't true.

Sometimes it's because they didn't get financed with the terms we hoped to get them financing for. The contracts are specifically written contingent on the financing getting bought by a bank. This was rare, but it did happen. In these cases, the person had only a few options: come up with the financing themselves, come up with cash, re-sign a new contract with new terms or give the car back.

More commonly (still rare), people would have to come in and re-sign because the VIN was wrong on their contract (part of the F&I manager's job is to check the VIN on the car against the VIN on the contract, but sometimes things get missed). In this case, the person does not own the car that they're driving. They have to bring it back.

Quote:
A google search comes up with quite a few complaints about this scam, and warnings about it on several car buying tips and top car scam sites. Several posters on here have posted stories of dealers attempting this scam, both in this thread and others. Several comments on the article claim that this same dealership has tried the same thing in the past. I'd say it's more common than you want to think or admit.
A google search for Glock kaboom gives 100k+ hits.. how "common" do you think those are?

I'm telling you, as a guy who made a living selling cars and running a car dealership for several years, what I saw and experienced. You can choose to believe me or not, that's up to you, but I think it's fairly obvious that I'm probably a better source of information than a google search. Google searches will not give you an accurate picture of how frequently bad things happen due to selection bias.
devildog2067 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 14:29   #42
FCastle88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 1,337
Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
Depends on what's wrong with the original contract. I've never attempted to pull this "scam" but I have definitely had to bring people in to re-sign before. In most cases, what you say about the person being able to keep the car isn't true.

Sometimes it's because they didn't get financed with the terms we hoped to get them financing for. The contracts are specifically written contingent on the financing getting bought by a bank. This was rare, but it did happen. In these cases, the person had only a few options: come up with the financing themselves, come up with cash, re-sign a new contract with new terms or give the car back.

More commonly (still rare), people would have to come in and re-sign because the VIN was wrong on their contract (part of the F&I manager's job is to check the VIN on the car against the VIN on the contract, but sometimes things get missed). In this case, the person does not own the car that they're driving. They have to bring it back.



A google search for Glock kaboom gives 100k+ hits.. how "common" do you think those are?

I'm telling you, as a guy who made a living selling cars and running a car dealership for several years, what I saw and experienced. You can choose to believe me or not, that's up to you, but I think it's fairly obvious that I'm probably a better source of information than a google search. Google searches will not give you an accurate picture of how frequently bad things happen due to selection bias.
Your examples are a completely different issue. We're not talking about someone having their financing declined, or the VIN number screwed up on the paper work. What we are talking about is someone paying off the car in full, or getting their own financing, and then the dealer claiming that they didn't charge enough for the car and the buyer has to fork over the extra money. In this situation, depending on the contract and state laws, most of the time the buy can tell them to pound sand.

I agree that google tends to make the issue look exaggerated, but I know people who have had dealers try this scam. Are the posters on here and the people posting comments about the dealership doing it in the past all making it up?
FCastle88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 14:38   #43
Kilrain
Señor Member
 
Kilrain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: On the road to Shambala
Posts: 1,980
Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
Depends on what's wrong with the original contract. I've never attempted to pull this "scam" but I have definitely had to bring people in to re-sign before. In most cases, what you say about the person being able to keep the car isn't true.

Sometimes it's because they didn't get financed with the terms we hoped to get them financing for. The contracts are specifically written contingent on the financing getting bought by a bank. This was rare, but it did happen. In these cases, the person had only a few options: come up with the financing themselves, come up with cash, re-sign a new contract with new terms or give the car back.

More commonly (still rare), people would have to come in and re-sign because the VIN was wrong on their contract (part of the F&I manager's job is to check the VIN on the car against the VIN on the contract, but sometimes things get missed). In this case, the person does not own the car that they're driving. They have to bring it back.

A google search for Glock kaboom gives 100k+ hits.. how "common" do you think those are?

I'm telling you, as a guy who made a living selling cars and running a car dealership for several years, what I saw and experienced. You can choose to believe me or not, that's up to you, but I think it's fairly obvious that I'm probably a better source of information than a google search.
Sure someone can keep the car. The dealership then has the option, depending on the error in the contract, to sue them and/or repossess the vehicle. It's just that simple, it is civil contract dispute no matter how you cut it. Additionally, no matter what the wording is in the contract, the proper method of resolution is either through negotiations or civil court.

Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
Google searches will not give you an accurate picture of how frequently bad things happen due to selection bias.
Google won't but some random guy on a discussion board will?

(This was just a little jab, I believe you have more direct knowledge about it than I but I just couldn't resist....)
__________________
O, that a man might know the end of this day's business ere it come!
But it sufficeth that the day will end and then the end is known.
And if we do meet again, why, we shall smile;
And if not, why then, this parting was well made.
Kilrain is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 14:47   #44
devildog2067
Senior Member
 
devildog2067's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Near Chicago, IL
Posts: 15,761
Quote:
Originally Posted by FCastle88 View Post
then the dealer claiming that they didn't charge enough for the car and the buyer has to fork over the extra money. In this situation, depending on the contract and state laws, most of the time the buy can tell them to pound sand.
I'm not disagreeing with you.

What I am saying is, there is a good chance that if a dealership pulls this kind of thing, the person will say "screw it, here's your car back" and the dealership will lose the deal entirely. Once a car rolls over the curb, dealerships are very very reluctant to mess with the paperwork for any reason. Trying to chisel another few hundred or few thousand dollars out of someone simply isn't worth taking a chance on most of the time.

Quote:
Are the posters on here and the people posting comments about the dealership doing it in the past all making it up?
Of course not. I'm sure it happens sometimes. In other cases, I know for a fact (because I've seen it) this is how people remember deals where they didn't get financed on the terms that they hoped they would.

I remember one time I sold a car to a guy, good credit, got him 4%-ish, straightforward hassle-free deal. The next day he quit his job. The day after that, the bank called to confirm his employment, and when they discovered he didn't work there anymore they yanked his financing. I had to call him back in and explain that he either needed to sign a new contract at 7% (with a lender that didn't do income verification) or give the car back. He then proceeded to tell anyone who would listen that we had "screwed him by changing the contract after it was signed."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilrain View Post
Sure someone can keep the car.
Ah, I see what you're saying. Yes, of course someone "can" keep the car, I'm not going to go to their house and take it.

Quote:
It's just that simple, it is civil contract dispute no matter how you cut it.
I called the cops a few times--when cars didn't come back from test drives, for example. Also, one time we had a guy write a check for a car, I called the bank to make sure he had the funds, and after he left the dealership he drove straight to the bank and cleaned out his account. I forget the details of why the cops were involved but I think that made it criminal fraud instead of a civil thing.

Quote:
Google won't but some random guy on a discussion board will?
I said it on the internet, so it must be true!
devildog2067 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 14:52   #45
Kilrain
Señor Member
 
Kilrain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: On the road to Shambala
Posts: 1,980
Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
I called the cops a few times--when cars didn't come back from test drives, for example. Also, one time we had a guy write a check for a car, I called the bank to make sure he had the funds, and after he left the dealership he drove straight to the bank and cleaned out his account. I forget the details of why the cops were involved but I think that made it criminal fraud instead of a civil thing.
Sure, sure, but you are talking about straight out, blatantly obvious crimes being committed. In that case, of course law enforcement should be involved. This case, however, appears on it's face to be nothing of the sort. Kinda apples and bananas comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
I said it on the internet, so it must be true!
Yes, yes!
__________________
O, that a man might know the end of this day's business ere it come!
But it sufficeth that the day will end and then the end is known.
And if we do meet again, why, we shall smile;
And if not, why then, this parting was well made.
Kilrain is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 14:54   #46
tslex
Senior Member
 
tslex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,219
Shortly after I became a lawyer, my mother- and father-in-law bought their first ever nearly new car. Bought a 1-y-o car from a dealer.

They get it home and three days later get a call that "A mistake was made on the deal" and they were "improperly undercharged" as the result of a "mistake in the negotiations" and they needed to pay an additional $2,189.99 (or some similar precise figure) or return the car.

It was a pure scam -- the contract they signed was clear as glass and this was just a hold-up.

I'm a second-career lawyer, so I was 36 and was working at one of the the biggest law firms in town. So instead of the immigrant car mechanic with the accented English, the dealer gets a call from the middle aged lawyer (hey THEY didn't know I'd been practicing about a month) at the big, bad firm. I come on very strong, make some noises about the attorney general's office and "quiet enjoyment" and what not. It was the last they were heard from.

But I wonder how many other folks were strong-armed into paying more.
tslex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 15:05   #47
G23Gen4TX
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,152
I want to see the specs of the two cars. Did he really get a car that is worth over $5000 more than the one he originally purchased?
G23Gen4TX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 15:10   #48
G23Gen4TX
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,152
Also, when I bought my 2006 Honda minivan my then wife, decided to switch color in the last second (don't get me started on that). The dealership said fine but then they wanted $700 more for a car with the same exact specs but different color.

We walked out. Bought the car in another dealership for the original price.
G23Gen4TX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 15:46   #49
redbaron007
Lifetime Membership
A Nice Prick
 
redbaron007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Southwest Missouri
Posts: 6,280
Quote:
Originally Posted by tslex View Post
....snip....

But I wonder how many other folks were strong-armed into paying more.
This is a question I wondered about too. Another reason this dealership my not want to go through discovery. There could be a bilgillion of these laying around. If any more pop up from the past and notify the AG of the state......well...the dealer may have some splainin to do.




red
__________________
TopGun *357sig* Club - #2632


R.I.P. Cajunator® ~ R.I.P. Mullah (aka El Ron)
R.I.P. GioaJack ~ R.I.P. Okie
redbaron007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 15:51   #50
Drilled
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Detroit
Posts: 1,509
I don't buy new cars very often. But when I do I insist on the same price employees get or better depending on time of year.

Since I have friends that work for the car companies I always know what they would pay out the door on a vehicle.
__________________
“The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.” —Samuel Adams
Drilled is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:16.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 752
193 Members
559 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42