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Old 09-28-2012, 10:30   #1
rockapede
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Trijicon TR24 for a patrol rifle?

I'll keep it short and sweet. I'm a cop. I'm currently running fixed irons on my patrol rifle. I'd like to add a quality optic. I'm not a door kicker with any regularity, but I work for a smaller, rural municipality that does not have a dedicated swat team so CQB ability is of some importance. However, being rural, it would not be unheard of for a staging point or position to be over 100 yards away on calls like bank alarms, for example, due to several wooded areas, open fields etc. I know something like a T-1 can be shot accurately outside of those distances, however, target discrimination is a consideration. I'd like quality glass but $1k is probably my limit (no S&B, etc).

I'm considering a TR24, probably green triangle, as I'm not sure holdover ability beyond 300 yards is important in my position. The TR24's reputation for good daylight illumination is a large part of its appeal. My basic question for those that own this optic or other 1-4x optics is how much am I giving up to an Aimpoint inside say 25 yards? I know it will be some, but is it worth it?
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:42   #2
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You can run a magnifier with the aimpoint, or there are mounts that allow you to mount an aimpoint above the scope. In addition you could also try offset sights. Whatever you choose good luck and be safe.
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:00   #3
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Originally Posted by m2hmghb View Post
You can run a magnifier with the aimpoint, or there are mounts that allow you to mount an aimpoint above the scope. In addition you could also try offset sights. Whatever you choose good luck and be safe.
I'm not too keen on magnifiers. One of the guys at work runs one with his Eotech on a flip to side mount and it just seems really bulky and awkward. Offset irons is a concept that appeals to me, however, it would have to be down the road as my current setup with the standard FSB doesn't really allow for it. I'm probably looking at the scope in either a LaRue or ADM QD mount with a flip up Troy BUIS. Is the performance of 1-4x scopes like the TR24 bad enough on 1x to really need an additional red dot?
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:04   #4
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Even a 1x variable optic is going to have an eye relief, which can make it somewhat more difficult to use at short range.

Honestly, unless you're trying to make a shot on someone holding an innocent person in a hostage position, there isn't much an Aimpoint with a 2MOA dot won't do inside 100 yards.

A magnifier can help with target discrimination, but since it magnifies both the dot and the target, it's still less precise than a dedicated, magnified optic.

Finally, having offset irons or red dot to back up a magnified optic is nice, but it starts to drive up the price very quickly.

Overall, I would suggest getting an Aimpoint PRO on sale ($360ish if you catch it right) and run that for a while - both in normal range time, and through a good carbine class. If you still think you need magnification at that point, look at adding a 3x or 4x magnifier behind it.
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:16   #5
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Even a 1x variable optic is going to have an eye relief, which can make it somewhat more difficult to use at short range.

Honestly, unless you're trying to make a shot on someone holding an innocent person in a hostage position, there isn't much an Aimpoint with a 2MOA dot won't do inside 100 yards.

A magnifier can help with target discrimination, but since it magnifies both the dot and the target, it's still less precise than a dedicated, magnified optic.

Finally, having offset irons or red dot to back up a magnified optic is nice, but it starts to drive up the price very quickly.

Overall, I would suggest getting an Aimpoint PRO on sale ($360ish if you catch it right) and run that for a while - both in normal range time, and through a good carbine class. If you still think you need magnification at that point, look at adding a 3x or 4x magnifier behind it.
Fair enough. I'll say again though that I really don't care for magnifiers, just personal preference. While my current gun has irons, I do have experience with red dot sights, both a mixture of Aimpoint and Eotech (probably should have qualified that in the OP). A RDS is still very much in consideration (not least of all because I could keep my DD fixed rear, which is awesome), however, I'm just trying to get a feel for how much I'd be giving up if I went TR24 instead. I've got no experience whatsoever with low power variables, and your point about eye relief is definitely worth considering. Is it a deal-breaker?
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:22   #6
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Ever consider a low power ACOG? Maybe 2 or 3 power, and get a set of off set iron sights for the close encounters. Just a thought.
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:24   #7
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Ever consider a low power ACOG? Maybe 2 or 3 power, and get a set of off set iron sights for the close encounters. Just a thought.
It's a thought, however, to do that my entire gun would need to be reworked. I like the fixed FSB a lot and would like to keep it, at least for now.
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Old 09-28-2012, 13:07   #8
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No experience with the TR24, but with my TAC30 1-4 I can easily shoot with both eyes open on 1X. Once set up and with a little practice the eye relief in my experience is pretty much a non-factor.
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Old 09-28-2012, 13:09   #9
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I have a cheap 1-4x on my pest control .22, and while it'll never be as fast as my EOTech, after a few hundred rounds it was very natural to shoot quickly with both eyes open.
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Old 09-28-2012, 13:33   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockapede View Post
Fair enough. I'll say again though that I really don't care for magnifiers, just personal preference. While my current gun has irons, I do have experience with red dot sights, both a mixture of Aimpoint and Eotech (probably should have qualified that in the OP). A RDS is still very much in consideration (not least of all because I could keep my DD fixed rear, which is awesome), however, I'm just trying to get a feel for how much I'd be giving up if I went TR24 instead. I've got no experience whatsoever with low power variables, and your point about eye relief is definitely worth considering. Is it a deal-breaker?
I've never done well with a variable at close range, even one with a 1-1.5x at the low end - hence why I stick to Aimpoints on dedicated close range guns. Some folks, as evidenced in this thread, can do well with it, though.
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Old 09-28-2012, 13:41   #11
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Trijicon optics are great for when one is hundreds of miles away from batteries. The trade off is tritium illumination that decays over time and is useless in 8-19 years, unless you send it back to trijicon for a 3-5 hundred dollar tritium replacement.

I like the battery operated illumination that lasts and lasts, like Aimpoint and Leupold. Research "Bindon Aiming Concept" and you may be able to learn a way to shoot a scope as fast as a red dot at close range.
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Old 09-28-2012, 14:43   #12
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I just put a Aimpoint PRO on my 6720. Typical police work is inside 100 yards historically, unless you are SRT or otherwise sniper team. You will be better prepped for all equations within your duty scope going RDS, such as the PRO. 7 clicks puts you daylight mode and dialing down reduces any perceived splatter (if astigmatism) for more precise work. BTW, I use EOTECH 512 on the 6920.
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Old 09-28-2012, 15:33   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockapede View Post
My basic question for those that own this optic or other 1-4x optics is how much am I giving up to an Aimpoint inside say 25 yards? I know it will be some, but is it worth it?
You will give up a little speed at CQB distance but not much considering you will be using it in a rural environment more than for door kicking. Your thought on target discrimination/identification is spot on. I have a Weaver 1.5-6 and see (pun intended) low power variables as an excellent gen purpose optic. The TR24 should serve you well. Yes, you will have to replace the tritium in 10 or 15 years but cross that bridge when you get there.
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Old 09-28-2012, 17:54   #14
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I do have an Accupoint 3-9 and in reference to the comments about the tritium dieing, it's true, but if there is any ambient light you're reticle will still light up pretty well from the fiber optics. If its pitch dark or you're in a very dark building, then you're relying on the tritium.
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Old 09-28-2012, 18:27   #15
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IMOHO the TR24 would be a fine choice. I now use one for three gun (distances from a few feet to 300 to 400 yards) which is about what a patrol officer would face in the course of duty.
The fact that it is battery less and doesn't need to be turned on makes it a fast to use optic.
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Old 09-28-2012, 20:41   #16
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1) RDS + 3x Mag
2) Just RDS
3) TA31F
4) Irons
5) TR24
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Old 09-28-2012, 21:22   #17
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With this to be your trunk gun, and with you not liking the flip-to-side mounting of the 3x magnifiers(with you on that one)...

I get the appeal of the FT mag optic, but they are IMO less than ideal for CQ.

Aimpoint PRO, and a 3x on a twist-off mount, in a stock-pouch when not mounted. At 150+ yards, the situation will likely not demand split-second engagement. If you need it, grab it from the pouch and snap in place. When you don't need it, it's not in your face cluttering up your field of view.

Just a thought.

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Old 09-28-2012, 21:28   #18
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I would agree that for your uses a Aimpoint Pro would be by far the best option. Its what I would have on my AR15 if I was a cop, no question.

You could have a rifle scope with a QD mount handy for the rifle as well in case a situation comes up you need to take a longer shot.
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Old 09-29-2012, 03:59   #19
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Aimpoint with a flip-aside magnifier (LaRue mount).

You can physically remove it from the rifle if you feel the need but the flip mount is rock solid. I won't use anything but an Aimpoint for close-in work by preference, with a 3X you're effective out to 300-400m easily, especially with a 2 MOA model.
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Old 09-29-2012, 06:49   #20
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I have a Vortex Viper PST 1-4 and wouldn't hesitate to use it in your situation. It is pretty close to true 1x and works well for close to medium 3-gun stages. In your budget you could set it up like mine with a quality mount and a switchview throw lever. I'm an Aimpoint guy at heart, but magnification is nice at distance.
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Old 09-29-2012, 06:50   #21
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I would agree that for your uses a Aimpoint Pro would be by far the best option. Its what I would have on my AR15 if I was a cop, no question.

You could have a rifle scope with a QD mount handy for the rifle as well in case a situation comes up you need to take a longer shot.
Also a good option.

I prefer quality QD mounts for everything.
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Old 09-29-2012, 07:04   #22
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1) Only use Aimpoint or EOtech.
2) Consider the options I listed in order.
3) I don't think you need a magnified optic in this role.
4) If you are going to roll out and make the hostage shot, don't trust any quick release mount with an unconfirmed zero... Not even LaRue.
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Old 09-29-2012, 10:06   #23
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I don't own a trijicon...

But I do have an Aimpoint PRO Red dot on an AR, and a Leopold 1-4x20 on a Ruger 10/22. Others have given you good feedback but I feel one key piece is missing. With a Red Dot sight you have a long eye relief and the scope is mounted forward, this means that both eyes are open and it is easier to be aware of your surroundings. For any kind of close quarters encounter this is the most important thing. I would easily recommend the Red Dot sight for this reason alone. You don't need or want magnification in a CQB role. The Aimpoint PRO is about $400 and my Leupold 1-4x20 was $280 without rings so they are similar in price.
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Old 09-29-2012, 10:15   #24
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I've shot my pro out to 200 and was making good hits without any trouble. I really don't think I would want anything else for a strictly patrol rife. As stated earlier most of the shots youre going to take will be within 100 yds. At 100 you should be able to discriminate targets fairly easy. Just make sure you have a good light for night time
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Old 09-29-2012, 11:50   #25
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I have a TR24 and have no problem shooting with both eyes open, on the other hand my buddy starts crying when he tries the same thing. I'm guessing it's something to do with different eyes and things like astigmatism and such. I also just picked up a Burris MTAC 1-4, and it is better with both eyes open than the TR24. I'm not sure as to it's durability compared to the Trijicon, but I really like the reticle with it turned on and off. And definitely a lot less money than the Trijicon.

There is the eye relief and field of view issue with variables and a RD will always be slightly superior there, but if you need the ability to idenify and make hits at longer ranges a 1-4 may be in your best interest. Any way you can borrow some variables and give them a try? That would be my suggestion.
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