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Old 05-14-2011, 04:16   #1
jimbullet
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failure to feed question

Hi,

What could be the cause for a 1911 hi cap 40 s&w pistol to fail to feed with the slide half way with the cartridge rim just right under the extractor but would just not want to go straight in.

I have heard many different thoughts but would like to get your opinions what should I be checking?

1. Extractor?
The extractor appears to have good tension
2. Overall bullet length? I am using 180 gr. SWC FMJ ammo. What bullet weight has a FMJ Roundnose? Is it the 200 gr.? Im seriously thinking it could be the ammo.
3. Magazine spring? I can feel there is fair tension on the spring when it is fully loaded but how can one know whether there is a need to change mag springs already?

4. Is it likely that the recoil spring is too stiff at 14 lbs? Is this a factor? Ammo has a power factor of 155.

Any thoughts greatly appreciated. Sorry but the picture appears to be a bit crappy
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Old 05-14-2011, 04:19   #2
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These are the pics
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Band of Glockers - Click for larger version   Band of Glockers - Click for larger version  
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Old 05-14-2011, 04:28   #3
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tama ang tension ng extractor? baka masyado mahigpit
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Old 05-14-2011, 04:35   #4
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Im not the expert on this, but i did a little research when i was assembling my 40 cal. Did you do the bullet drop?? baka yung shell oversize?? If your problem is with the brass...

2 Word.. GRX die...

If smooth as ice and barrel drop.. then it could be the magazine, try using another mag... if same problem.. so its not your magazine.

Baka "short stroking" (ba yung tawag dito?) if Powder Puff Factor ang load.. when the slide backs just enough that the used shell does hit lightly on the ejector. so when the new cartridge wants to go up.. it has to push the used one out before it can go to the ramp, resulting in jams..

if the failure persist.. consult your gunsmith hahahahah

PD: Newbie lang ako ha :P Just want to share.
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Old 05-14-2011, 04:36   #5
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the extractor tension appears to be okay. it does let the cartridge go but just a little flick and its off. For me the tension appears to be lighter than the extractor of my then ColtGold Cup in 45acp.
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Old 05-14-2011, 04:42   #6
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155 Power Factor.... hhmm... medyo mahina pala. it could be "short stroking"... Yes.. thats my final answer.... try using lighter spring if your using light loads. like a 12.5lbs :P
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Old 05-14-2011, 04:42   #7
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I did the barrel drop and all the ammo I have used have passed. These were once fired brass that I have used (federal).

I had similar failures in three different mags but all three mags had the same spring tensions and has had 5k rounds through it.

One more thing, two of the mags I tried to load 18 rounds into it which went in as it has an extended basepad. One of the mags just compacted the rounds to the point that rounds 1 to 4 merely dropped out when the mag was flipped upside down. I had to push a screwdriver in to get them released sa pagkumpul inside (if it all makes sense).

Funny thing is it happened thrice on the range, tried to replicate at home and it never did.
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Old 05-14-2011, 04:43   #8
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Ooops - sorry mispost on the power factor. It is doing 170. Wrong calculations ;-)
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Old 05-14-2011, 04:44   #9
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Bago ba yan? assembled o out of the box?
just maybe, paki tingnan ilalim ng extractor. The portion where the rim touches the 1st time it goes up (may term sa gunsmithing dyan) should be radiused a bit, wala kanto.
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Old 05-14-2011, 04:46   #10
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On another note, the shells appear to eject (fly off) really far. They end up somewhat 2 to 3 feet within a 2 feet diameter radius
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Old 05-14-2011, 04:50   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Putok-Glock View Post
Bago ba yan? assembled o out of the box?
just maybe, paki tingnan ilalim ng extractor. The portion where the rim touches the 1st time it goes up (may term sa gunsmithing dyan) should be radiused a bit, wala kanto.
Sa breech face? I had a close look and it appears really smooth. I got it from a friend, it has run 5k rounds through it already.

When I test fired it for 50 rounds, it was flawless, then I found out that since it has done 5k rounds, I changed recoil springs 14 lb, changed firing pin spring. bought new ammo.

My friend does not know ilang pounds ang spring na nakalagay but it felt the same as a 14 lb - could be wrong.

Its a S16-40 Todd Jarret Para Ord
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Old 05-14-2011, 06:24   #12
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**resisting urge to say something nasty about .40S&W, lol**


I don't think it's short stroking.
If the extractor claw has already hooked onto the case rim, then the claw is fine.
It can't be screwing with the feed, because it's supposed to ride that horsey all
the way into the chamber. It's part of the very thing pushing the new cartridge
forward: the slide.

The jammed cartridge is already free of the magazine, right?
That suggests to me that the NEXT cartridge in the mag has its nose poking too
hard into the cartridge above it, retarding the latter's forward progress. You can
test this by shooting with a cartridge already chambered, and a mag with just
one cartridge loaded. If that doesn't produce an FTF, then the problem is what
I've described ---which can be rooted in an off-angle follower, deformed feed
lips, tube, or most likely (since you report problems with several mags) a bad
cartridge OAL.

Your tale of cartridges getting stuck in the mag only reinforces my suspicion.

FWIW, JM2, TANSTAAFL
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Old 05-14-2011, 08:07   #13
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Better pic attached as I have been cycling the pistol on all of the magazines trying to see if it would replicate the FTF.

Horge,

I've done what you said, placed one round in the chamber and one round in the magazine. Since am not on the range at present, what I've done was to manually rack the slide all the way back to eject the chambered round and release it. The FTF did not happen and it fed the cartridge.

I tried to load the mag full and again racked the let go the slide on each round. The pic attached is a result of one FTF that happened during this process.

The cartridge that is hanging out has its rim just underneath the extractor. It is appearing that the cartridge is entering the chamber at a relatively steep angle(?)
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Old 05-14-2011, 14:06   #14
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Big improvement in pix resolution, lol...

Ah, so THAT'S what you meant by "with the cartridge rim just
right under the extractor". My bad. The extractor claw HASN'T
quite secured. PG's comment on radiusing the extractor claw's
lower corner may apply, but I hope you understand that even
with a few clear photos, we're seeing only part of what you can.

Better to eliminate some other possibilities before alterations to
the gun's parts. Are your cartridges factory or handloads? This
touches again on OAL. I described one freak problem with too-long
cartridges. If the cartridges are too short or have a funky ogive
(SWC's nga, di ba?) they may take too long to touch the feed
ramp BEFORE the magazine totally loses control of them --which
means the newest cartridge will be wiggling out of control for
a split second, just when the extractor claw is trying to latch
onto its rim, and when the breechface/boltface is trying to get
SQUARELY behind the jumpy cartridge's flat ass.

Try hand-cycling through a full mag with the gun upside down. If
the FTF's (actually FTRTB's) occur more often, then the out-of-
control cartridge scenario is likely what's going on, and in turn
would be caused by one or more root problems, from extractor
claw configuration to bullet OAL.

Ultimately, it appears you changed the recoil spring and ammo, then
you wound up having problems. Wrong spring, or bad cartidges, then.
Try roundball with the new spring, and SWC with the old, see what
happens, and you'll be closer to isolating the problem. Again, even
with photos, we can only perceive a fraction of what you can, with
hands-on.


BTW, if you can take out the firing pin before you indulge in extensive
hand-cycling, it might be safer. If the gun DOES have intrinsic
manufacturing problems, or suffers from 3rd-party parts mismatches
(you did swap out the fp spring) then we can't really rule out an
unfortunate slam-fire.





h.
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Old 05-14-2011, 20:18   #15
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Yes, I did remove the firing pin as was mindful that I needed to depress the trigger so that the disconnector engaged each time I did the manual cycle just to spare the hammer/ sear connection from being battered.

Doing what you suggested Horge and true enough, there has been more frequent FTF's in the same manner. It was in every three rounds that it occured.

My tired hands might have also been racking the slide backwards a bit slower than usual that there were instances where the power extractor held on the cartridge that came from the chamber bypassing the extended ejector that resulted to that round getting stuck on the top end of the chamber preventing the pistol from going into full battery and with the new round hanging from underneath just about to go into the chamber.

These are times that I wish I had a caliper to check OAL.

After doing all of these manual cycles through, some of the cartridges I noticed now have the bullets seated further into the case as a result. Crimping might be an issue.

I got a full batch of these SWC FMJ ammo from a local manufacturer, Belmont Ammunitions, which is similar to BVAC in the US that uses once fired brass, loads them and markets them commercially.

The pic shows the round nose ammo at the right which I did not have any issues with. the one at the center is the new SWC ammo I now have, which does appear far shorter but not sure whether it is still within an acceptable OAL. The one at the left most is the SWC that seated further below after many cycles through the gun.
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Old 05-14-2011, 20:23   #16
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I had about 17 rounds that all had the bullet seated further in the case and thought to try them to cycle and see whether they would do a FTF on me, making sure that I racked the slide backwards hard enough each time.

This all with the gun positioned as if I was firing (not upside down).

To my surprise, none of these "shorter nosed" rounds did any FTF on me....Confusing eh. Perhaps the cartridge were "jumping" and is able to land to go into the chamber...???
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Old 05-15-2011, 01:20   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbullet View Post
I had about 17 rounds that all had the bullet seated further in the case and thought to try them to cycle and see whether they would do a FTF on me, making sure that I racked the slide backwards hard enough each time.

This all with the gun positioned as if I was firing (not upside down).

To my surprise, none of these "shorter nosed" rounds did any FTF on me....Confusing eh. Perhaps the cartridge were "jumping" and is able to land to go into the chamber...???

Pagawa mo na lang kasi, e

Seriously, if it was me, I'd either switch back to whatever ammo the gun was accustomed to, or else have a 'smith tune it for an SWC diet.
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Old 05-15-2011, 02:44   #18
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I wish it was that easy because the earlier ammo was a recipe by the former owner and unfortunately I do not reload myself as of now. I need to get a factory ammo that would be as reliable or better.
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Old 05-15-2011, 04:20   #19
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i had a problem dati when i used long oal. shortened it to 1.140 or 1.135 ayos na.

the problem with reload heads its not factory specs ng 40.

To give you and example i have a pt111 titanium mil pro titanium na nag oopen slide even if the mag still has bullets in it, then i use factory fmj or jhp it doesnt do it.

the reload na teflons 125 ata yon are fatter and it hits the slide stop thus nag oopen slide.

the right way to do it is look for the correct bullet head. pag nagtitipid find the correct oal.

the wrong way to do it is loosen up the chamber hehhe
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Old 05-15-2011, 05:16   #20
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second the motion! polish the part and hopefully the problem will go away

Quote:
Originally Posted by Putok-Glock View Post
Bago ba yan? assembled o out of the box?
just maybe, paki tingnan ilalim ng extractor. The portion where the rim touches the 1st time it goes up (may term sa gunsmithing dyan) should be radiused a bit, wala kanto.
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