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Old 09-26-2012, 12:09   #1
MississipVol
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New to AR's - Need Optic Help

Help me make my next purchase PLEASE!!! :-)

I am new to AR's and working on shooting with my iron sights but also trying to decide on my 1st optic for my brand new Colt LE6920-MP.

I have narrowed it down to 2 completely different "scopes":

The Vortex Strikefire Red/Green Dot

Pros - Only costs $170 which includes the mount and a 2X magnifier so I could get before Christmas. Great reviews on Amazon and talked to several people that have one and they all like it and don't regret the purchase. Would probably work for most purposes.

Cons - I don't have the greatest eyesight and MAY want to use my AR for deer hunting so is a 1X red dot enough??

The Burris MTAC 1-4X24 with illuminated ballistic CQ reticle


Pros - True 1X and up to 4X so I could get a better view of targets and would come in very handy if I wanted to stretch my target distance (or use to deer hunt). Clear glass. Has great eye relief for a scope and an illuminated ballistic reticle that is easy to pick up.

Cons - costs $399 and would probably get a Burris PEPR mount thats another $100 - so at $500 I would probably have to wait until after Christmas at least to purchase. The Burris is also longer than I wanted on my AR at 11.3" and would prevent use of my back folding sight.

So should I go ahead and get the Vortex strikefire and only get a scope later down the road if I think I need it? (Could possible use the vortex elsewhere).

OR - Should I continue saving and get the Burris MTAC knowing it would be all I would ever need?

Some of you experienced guys - please help me with your advice! Thanks!!!
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Old 09-26-2012, 12:28   #2
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The Vortex red/green does not get nearly bright enough for outside use. If you are set a on a Vortex strikefire get the red only version, it is much brigther. I had a Vortex Strikfire, it was a fine optic for the money. I now have an EOTech EXPS2-0. My advice would be wait until you can buy an EOTech or Aimpoint PRO. I have zero experience with 1-4 optics. Don't go cheap on your optics, you will be glad you bought quality years down the road.
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Old 09-26-2012, 12:46   #3
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Do you want or need magnification?

1-4x scopes are big/heavy. Do you want that extra weight?

Red Dots......save and get the Aimpoint. The PRO is $400 with mount.
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Old 09-26-2012, 12:50   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvician View Post
Do you want or need magnification?

1-4x scopes are big/heavy. Do you want that extra weight?

Red Dots......save and get the Aimpoint. The PRO is $400 with mount.
Actually, I am not entirely sure I NEED the magnification but I am thinking if I try to place a shot on a deer 200 yards away I probably would.
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Old 09-26-2012, 13:30   #5
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I've wrestled with the same issue. I suspect that for your use you'll find the 1x4 to be a better and more useful choice. For most of us red-dots are fun but not as practical as a more traditional scope.

All that said, I've owned many Vortex products and they are simply outstanding. The equal of competitors that are twice the price. Excellent glass, very well built and the best warranty ever (double check to make sure it applies to red dots). For a but more (I think $200-ish) you can get their Sparc red dot which compares to the Aimpoint PRO but at a substantial discount.

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Old 09-26-2012, 13:38   #6
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I have the red/green Strikefire on my AR. I have no problems shooting in broad daylight out to 200 yards. The dot will cover a 10" target at 200 yards about the size of a pie plate. Granted, I can get a decent group with the right ammo @ 200, I wouldn't prefer this optic for deer hunting. Not to mention that a .223 isn't the optimal round for deer hunting(IMO). The field of view sucks on any dot scope too. The Nikon P-223 3-9x scope looks like it would be a nice scope for the AR. It's basically a Nikon Pro Staff with target turrets and BDC reticle set up for the .223 round. I will probably end up getting one to use from time to time and swap out the red dot. The P-223 is not much more than the Vortex either.
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Old 09-26-2012, 15:12   #7
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I have the red/green Strikefire on my AR. I have no problems shooting in broad daylight out to 200 yards. The dot will cover a 10" target at 200 yards about the size of a pie plate. Granted, I can get a decent group with the right ammo @ 200, I wouldn't prefer this optic for deer hunting. Not to mention that a .223 isn't the optimal round for deer hunting(IMO). The field of view sucks on any dot scope too. The Nikon P-223 3-9x scope looks like it would be a nice scope for the AR. It's basically a Nikon Pro Staff with target turrets and BDC reticle set up for the .223 round. I will probably end up getting one to use from time to time and swap out the red dot. The P-223 is not much more than the Vortex either.
I don't do very much deer hunting at all and, with this being my only rifle, its pretty much my only option if I go. However, I know not to try to take a deer if its much farther than 200 yds.

I have looked at the Nikon and really like it but it doesn't have the illuminated reticle of the Burris and with the bottom magnification of 3X, I would probably have to get a mini red dot to use with it anyway.

Its the fact that i will only go deer hunting once or twice a year that has me thinking I should only get a red dot but I am still unsure.
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Old 09-26-2012, 15:46   #8
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......save and get the Aimpoint. The PRO is $400 with mount.
+1 That's good advice.
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Old 09-26-2012, 16:48   #9
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My advice would be wait until you can buy an EOTech or Aimpoint PRO.
So the question boils down to this...which one? EOTech or Aimpoint Pro?

I hear positives about both...I took a look at the Aimpoint Pro and was a little turned off by the flip up lens cover.
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Old 09-26-2012, 16:55   #10
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Originally Posted by cpham9006 View Post
So the question boils down to this...which one? EOTech or Aimpoint Pro?

I hear positives about both...I took a look at the Aimpoint Pro and was a little turned off by the flip up lens cover.
While they are both great optics, the Aimpoint is supposed to be more rugged. The Aimpoint also has way better battery life.

I personally like the Eotech reticle. If Aimpoint made a reticle like Eotech, i'd be all over it like stupid on Pam Anderson!
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Old 09-26-2012, 17:13   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpham9006 View Post
So the question boils down to this...which one? EOTech or Aimpoint Pro?

I hear positives about both...I took a look at the Aimpoint Pro and was a little turned off by the flip up lens cover.
I went with the EOTech EXPS2 because I shoot more quickly and accurately at longer distances than I did with the H1 I sold to buy it. Mine works perfectly, doesn't drain batteries when it's off or any of that. I'm sure my opinion would be different if I got a lemon.
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Old 09-26-2012, 18:31   #12
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You guys make some great red dot suggestions.

So I guess my bottom line point it...with what I described in my two earlier posts ITT, should I go with a 1-4X24 scope that has an illuminated ballistic CQ reticle ~OR~ a red dot sight like an EOTech or Aimpoint?

Last edited by MississipVol; 09-26-2012 at 18:33..
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Old 09-26-2012, 18:34   #13
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Originally Posted by cpham9006 View Post
So the question boils down to this...which one? EOTech or Aimpoint Pro?

I hear positives about both...I took a look at the Aimpoint Pro and was a little turned off by the flip up lens cover.
Depends on what you want, you should try both before buying. I prefer EOTech.
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Old 09-26-2012, 18:52   #14
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I really like some of the high end low power variables, but at your budget I'd get an EOTech or Aimpoint.
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Old 09-26-2012, 21:14   #15
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For a multitude of uses a low power variable like the MTAC is going to be more versatile than just a red dot.
But if you are going to get a RDS, save for an Aimpoint.
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Old 09-26-2012, 21:43   #16
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Like everyone else here has said, save up and get an eotech or aimpoint. Buy once cry once.
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Old 09-26-2012, 22:04   #17
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Aimpoint PRO.

Also, I would't suggest using .223 for deer at anything except VERY close range (sub-50 yards) just to help ensure a quick and clean kill. Then again, I personally wouldn't hunt deer with anything below .30 caliber.

Hogs, on the other hand....
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Old 09-26-2012, 22:25   #18
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Burris TAC 30? Got mine for $280 and its very clear with the illumination capable of super bright.
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Old 09-26-2012, 22:32   #19
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Like everyone else here has said, save up and get an eotech or aimpoint. Buy once cry once.
Excellent advice.

------

IMO, you can't beat the eotech for rapid acquisition in CQB-distance engagements and shooting with NVG's. The Aimpoints strength is its battery life. You can leave it on and go half a deployment without having to worry about changing batteries. Neither is going to allow you to shoot minute-of-angle groups, but both are more than capable of shooting minute-of-dude out to 200-250m, guys tend to get lost behind the dot past that.

I prefer eotechs for work but do have an old M68 (aimpoint) mounted on my pig gun.

Regardless, put your hands on all of your options do you can make an informed decision. Good luck!
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Old 09-26-2012, 23:01   #20
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I've wrestled with the same issue. I suspect that for your use you'll find the 1x4 to be a better and more useful choice. For most of us red-dots are fun but not as practical as a more traditional scope.

All that said, I've owned many Vortex products and they are simply outstanding. The equal of competitors that are twice the price. Excellent glass, very well built and the best warranty ever (double check to make sure it applies to red dots). For a but more (I think $200-ish) you can get their Sparc red dot which compares to the Aimpoint PRO but at a substantial discount.

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Not trying to start a war here... but this? ^^^

I agree that the Vortex optics are GREAT for the money. For a range/practice gun, even for HD, I'd trust it.

But I've owned quite a few red-dots. Currently enjoying having a Vortex Strikefire, and it's "equal" the Aimpoint CompM2.

Though the controls are god-awful, I do like the Strikefire. It will serve the needs of alot of people just fine.

But anyone who believes that with an Aimpoint or Eotech, you're just paying for the name? Sadly delusional, or has likely never owned one.

Had both, personally prefer Aimpoint over EOtech. But they're both excellent. Tough as nails, true parallux-free operation, well thought out controls. Will absolutely do what they need to do in the worst conditions.

Value has nothing to do with price, it's what you're getting for the hard earned greenbacks you're shelling out.

Aimpoint & Eotech make "combat" worthy optics. You can beat the crap out of them, and they keep on kicking(something to think about if you plan to drag it through the woods on hunting trips).

Do you need a "combat" RDS? Only you know the answer to that.

If not, the Vortex line is a good value.

If so, IMO the best bargains you'll ever find will be the Aimpoint PRO, followed closely by the EOtech 512.

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Old 09-26-2012, 23:21   #21
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Originally Posted by mvician View Post
Do you want or need magnification?

1-4x scopes are big/heavy. Do you want that extra weight?

Red Dots......save and get the Aimpoint. The PRO is $400 with mount.
Don't save too much weight by using an AIMPOINT PRO over the burris MTAC 1-4... 12oz vs 17~ish ounces respectively.

A red dot style optic will be easier to catch the dot if you need faster engagements. a scope will have eye-relief, height-over bore, cheekweld things.....

If it were my dime: I'd spend just a LITTLE bit more and get the Aimpoint Micro H-1 w/Daniel Defense Mount from G and R Tactical: http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin...ion&key=APH1DD

The whole thing weighs a whopping quarter pound.

(Disclaimer: I've bought from G and R before and have had an awesome experience, both pre and post sale... but I don't work for them nor do I have any vested interest in them... just a good price for an awesome piece of kit.)
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Old 09-26-2012, 23:23   #22
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I do agree that the smaller red dots are the way to go, I wouldn't want one bigger than my EXPS.
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Old 09-26-2012, 23:53   #23
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Not trying to start a war here... but this? ^^^

I agree that the Vortex optics are GREAT for the money. For a range/practice gun, even for HD, I'd trust it.

But I've owned quite a few red-dots. Currently enjoying having a Vortex Strikefire, and it's "equal" the Aimpoint CompM2.

Though the controls are god-awful, I do like the Strikefire. It will serve the needs of alot of people just fine.

But anyone who believes that with an Aimpoint or Eotech, you're just paying for the name? Sadly delusional, or has likely never owned one.

Had both, personally prefer Aimpoint over EOtech. But they're both excellent. Tough as nails, true parallux-free operation, well thought out controls. Will absolutely do what they need to do in the worst conditions.

Value has nothing to do with price, it's what you're getting for the hard earned greenbacks you're shelling out.

Aimpoint & Eotech make "combat" worthy optics. You can beat the crap out of them, and they keep on kicking(something to think about if you plan to drag it through the woods on hunting trips).

Do you need a "combat" RDS? Only you know the answer to that.

If not, the Vortex line is a good value.

If so, IMO the best bargains you'll ever find will be the Aimpoint PRO, followed closely by the EOtech 512.

Fair enough and I appreciate your perspective. I think that Aimpoints are excellent optics that are fairly priced - I don't have any experience with Eotech. My point wasn't that you are "paying for the name" when you buy an Aimpoint, but rather that in my experience you're getting a product that is worth more than its price if you purchase a Vortex. Also to clarify I was trying to make the point that the Vortex Sparc - not the Strikefire - compares to the Aimpoint. Your mileage may vary of course!

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Old 09-27-2012, 00:22   #24
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The need for combat optics is different than the need for other optics. There are two big reasons why I choose 'combat' optics, specifically the Aimpoint for HD:


Battery Life: turn it on, leave it on, it will be on the next time I need it, as long as it's sometime before the turn of the century, it'll still be there turned on.

it can get the crap kicked out of it and still work.
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Old 09-27-2012, 06:46   #25
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EOtech 512 A-65 ... $365






Quote:
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Fair enough and I appreciate your perspective. I think that Aimpoints are excellent optics that are fairly priced - I don't have any experience with Eotech. My point wasn't that you are "paying for the name" when you buy an Aimpoint, but rather that in my experience you're getting a product that is worth more than its price if you purchase a Vortex. Also to clarify I was trying to make the point that the Vortex Sparc - not the Strikefire - compares to the Aimpoint. Your mileage may vary of course!
Lol, the "paying for the name" wasn't directed specifically at you. 'Round here, there tends to be three groups.

1) If you aren't setting up a Noveske topped with an ACOG, you shouldn't get an AR at all.

2) There's zero difference between the above^ rifle, and a DPMS topped with a BSA.

3) The guys/gals who fall in the middle(reality).


And again, I'm not bashing Vortex. They make great stuff at the price point. I've had the Sparc, and the Strikefire. Both great optics, if your RDS budget is $200 or less.

But the Aimpoint Micro & Comp series that they're respectively modeled after are on a completely different playing field. May start a war here, but in reality, above and beyond EOtech's line-up as well.

The unholy hell you can put an Aimpoint through, is unbelievable.

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