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Old 09-28-2012, 09:14   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoCG View Post
You will also need caliber specific shell holders for the Lee auto prime. The shell holder that come with the dies will not work.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/412...nd-w-10mm-auto
Crap you're kidding me!

**EDIT Thank you for telling me.. I just bought it off eBay... easier to buy a $2 part off ebay then from a large online store...
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Old 09-28-2012, 09:36   #52
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Crap you're kidding me!
No sorry, I can sympathizewith you. I started reloading much like you are, with a Lyman 310 nutcrcker hand press about 45yrs. ago. The only difference i sI did purchase a good Ohause beam scale. It is the single most important piece of equipment you can have. I also weighed every charge for .38 and .44mag. Yes it was very tediouse but it did produce decent loads. Within a yr. I purchased a SS bench press.

A powder trickler isn't bad for pistol, but it also can be slow and time consuming.

Good Luck.
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:02   #53
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Yes but you guys said trickling was bad for pistols so my plan was to use a dipper on the scale to get close and then just fine tune at that point..
I read the review over at Midway. I don't know that the person posting the review has any credibility whatsoever.

However, it seems that the scale wants to take one stable reading and then start from zero for another measurement.

If so, you won't be able to put a dipper full in the pan and then trickle the remainder.

As I said, I don't know if the person writing the review has the foggiest notion about how to use the scale. Every digital scale I have ever used takes repeated measurements.

Richard
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:06   #54
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The scale is a Frankford Arsenal and it comes with a calibration weight

Furthermore, the scale gets excellent reviews:


Thats literally hundreds of reviewers,the majority of which seem to be very pleased. Doesnt make it a sure thing, but again, just because it isnt very expensive doesnt mean its a disaster either...

With all due respect, if it was that bad, you'd be hearing about people like this blowing up and kb'ing all over the place.

I go to ranges all the time... Ive yet to see a kb in person, and Ive yet to have anyone Ive ever shot with ever report it. Its something Ive only seen in pictures on the internet. Again, that doesnt mean it cant happen but with all due respect, you guys are describing it like its a sure thing with this scale.
Look, everyone wants to justify their decision, look at the current political mess of an election. You bought a crappy scale. I don't care what the reviews are . I would 90% of those reviews are from noobs like you that haven't used it enough to really have a good opinions. Again, ask for advice from those that know then choose to ignore it, your kind of on your own then. Again, good luck, I have a feeling you will need some.
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:09   #55
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I like to use dippers and build them specific for the powder load I wish to shoot. Build them both for pistol and rifle. Use a .380 or 9mm case cut down for the pistol. Use a 30/06-or 45-70 for rifle......Weigh the charge I desire, mark the charge on the case and cut it down to acheive the load result. Works great...Handloaded results---When I could hold a pistol steady, won a G17 at Ft. Benning many years ago. Rifle loads--300WSM--W760-180gr Accubond--loaded for a friend who hunts---One buffalo, one moose, one elk, one black bear, one caribou and numerous whitetail. And, these are all mid-range loads, not max....I do use some Dippers in the Lee Kit, but mostly make my own...dippers do work..
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:42   #56
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Look, everyone wants to justify their decision, look at the current political mess of an election. You bought a crappy scale. I don't care what the reviews are . I would 90% of those reviews are from noobs like you that haven't used it enough to really have a good opinions. Again, ask for advice from those that know then choose to ignore it, your kind of on your own then. Again, good luck, I have a feeling you will need some.
Look Im not going to argue with you. But really... Im not trying to justify anything.

I did ask for advice.. I have with this as well as other things in my life solicited advice from multiple sources. Furthermore, Im sorry you are offended that I took an initial shortcut to save some money. It seems more like you are offended that I didnt just blindly do exactly what you said, without utilizing any of my own thoughts or judgements whatsoever.

Well, Im not wired that way. I dont just say "how high" when someone says "jump". I used the information provided from a multitude of sources and made a decision. You want to call it justification? So be it.

But dooont you worry.. I will be SURE not to go asking for advice from y'all again.
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:54   #57
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I read the review over at Midway. I don't know that the person posting the review has any credibility whatsoever.


As I said, I don't know if the person writing the review has the foggiest notion about how to use the scale. Every digital scale I have ever used takes repeated measurements.

Richard
I dont know why I am still involved in this conversation at this point but I dont know what youre talking about.

You keep saying "the person" and "the review".

I posted up a link to midway with 112 reviews and an amazon link with another 46 reviews. That is 168 reviews predominantly positive.
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Old 09-28-2012, 13:18   #58
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Look Im not going to argue with you. But really... Im not trying to justify anything.

I did ask for advice.. I have with this as well as other things in my life solicited advice from multiple sources. Furthermore, Im sorry you are offended that I took an initial shortcut to save some money. It seems more like you are offended that I didnt just blindly do exactly what you said, without utilizing any of my own thoughts or judgements whatsoever.

Well, Im not wired that way. I dont just say "how high" when someone says "jump". I used the information provided from a multitude of sources and made a decision. You want to call it justification? So be it.

But dooont you worry.. I will be SURE not to go asking for advice from y'all again.
I'm not offended, nothing you could do or say to me would offend me. I just get a little tired of people that ask for advice then totally ignore it. Why ask? Like my son that asked me about his girlfriend; I told him she would dump him at first chance, so they married anyway. He now listens to solicited advice from those that know better.
I wish you well, really. I would rather see people reload on cheap stuff than not reload at all, but you did ask for opinions, maybe take some of the advice??
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Old 09-28-2012, 16:37   #59
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I dont know why I am still involved in this conversation at this point but I dont know what youre talking about.

You keep saying "the person" and "the review".
I referred to a review I read at MidwayUSA.

Here is the web page and the first review at the bottom is what I was talking about.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/175...grain-capacity

Richard
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Old 09-29-2012, 10:49   #60
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The real point should be that, of all the reloading equipment that one needs, the scale is the single most important component that you should never go cheap on. Trust me that from experience I can tell you that inexpensive digital scales will wander and your charges (in a high pressure case to begin with) could become dangerous.

Remember that in reloading, you are creating controlled explosive devices that, within certain parameters, are generally safe. Overcharge a single round due to a $30 scale and the resulting damage to yourself and your firearms could easily run in the thousands, including damages that cannot be repaired.
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Old 09-29-2012, 13:25   #61
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The real point should be that, of all the reloading equipment that one needs, the scale is the single most important component that you should never go cheap on. Trust me that from experience I can tell you that inexpensive digital scales will wander and your charges (in a high pressure case to begin with) could become dangerous.

Remember that in reloading, you are creating controlled explosive devices that, within certain parameters, are generally safe. Overcharge a single round due to a $30 scale and the resulting damage to yourself and your firearms could easily run in the thousands, including damages that cannot be repaired.
PCJim is exactly right. We are not trying to convey information to puff up our chests. It is not a Chevy vs. Ford thing.

This is the one area that is downright critical: to ensure that the charge that goes into the case is what you expect it to be. There is no way I would rely upon a cheap electronic scale for that purpose -- and virtually no experienced hand loader would either.

Let's think about it this way. You are dealing with a high level of precision. One ounce is a pretty light weight. There are 437.5 grains in one ounce. We handloaders are measuring to the tenth of a grain. That means that you need a tool that is precise to 1/4375 of an ounce!

I have a close contact that I have mentored in handloading. He went with a cheap scale against my suggestions for loading various rifle cartridges. He also had a quality beam scale. For whatever reason, he had more faith in electronics than mechanics.

Results: His velocities were inconsistent with the occasional big outlier low or high velocities with sometimes an ejector imprint on the case head and sticky bolt lift (symptoms of high pressure). A few case head separations later, and I feel that he is lucky to not yet have had a KB. He would not get his mind around the fact that it was his scale that was the culprit. Inconsistent charge weights were evident to everyone but him. After all he "zeroed it regularly" and verified the readings with the included heavy check weight - so the scale must be accurate he argued. He also touted the online product reviews (this sounds familiar).

He told me that he did not use the beam scale because his electronic scale "proved" that the "beam scale was all over the place." When in reality it was the other way around. He would weigh a charge on the electronic scale and move it to the beam scale. The beam scale would show different readings -- high or low. So in his mind the beam scale was inconsitent. In actuality, the beam scale demonstrated how utterly unreliable the electronic scale was.

I have an RCBS 505 beam scale that I like a lot and a set of check weights that will cover 0.5 grains to 60 grains and combinations in between. When I set my scale, the check weights show that the scale is precisely right. If my load is 8.5 grains, I zero the scale, set it to 8.5 and put 8.5 grains worth of check weights on the pan just to be sure. Then the powder throw is adjusted to throw that charge weight and off I go.

OP, we are not trying to be mean to you, or pile on. This is just too darned important. Listen to the experts here on this one issue where there is virtually unanimous agreement (that otherwise never happens here).

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Old 09-29-2012, 13:40   #62
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FWIW, you can NOT verify one scale w/ another unless one scale has been checked using certified or verified check wts. I am always amazed how little people know about their chosen hobby, particulalry when your health is drectly at risk. A 125gr bullet is NOT a check wt, they can vary as much as 0.2gr +/-. I've said it befreo, cheap out on your other gear, but spend good money on a scale. If you arelimited on funds, then it's going to be a quality beam scale. Until someone proves it to me with a lot of use, there are no good/cheap (read much under $100 retail) dig scales for reloading.
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Old 09-30-2012, 23:26   #63
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Try Ebay for deals on used equipment. I've bouth several bargains there.
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:57   #64
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My intention is to go and purchase one of the aforementioned scales later this week..

It is frustrating though.. I have looked at the RCBS 502 and 505... Like anything, you have people who say theyre great in reviews, and others who say their crap. I just dont want to make a mistake on a $70-$80 scale here...

The dillion scale I believe can only be purchased from Dillion so I might go that route as well..

I'll make a final decision in the next day soon, but I am waiting for my book (to be delivered tomorrow) so when I see what "components" I need (bullets, powder, primer [dont need brass now]), Ill buy the proper scale... (so I can hopefully order everything at one time).. you know.. shipping sucks so I want to get it all together...
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:10   #65
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My intention is to go and purchase one of the aforementioned scales later this week..

It is frustrating though.. I have looked at the RCBS 502 and 505... Like anything, you have people who say theyre great in reviews, and others who say their crap. I just dont want to make a mistake on a $70-$80 scale here...
Website reviews can be helpful for flagging potential 'gotchas', but sometimes I question the common sense and actual past experience of some reviewers. So although web reviews may help in a decision, you sometimes have to consider the source.

I've seen many reviews of phone apps where people say the app is junk and doesn't work as advertised, and I've downloaded and run them perfectly. It's a similar thing for reloading hardware sometimes. At least most of the 'old' posters around here can stand on their record.
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:21   #66
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When people post reviews. You in most cases donít know if they load 50 rounds a week or 500+ a week. How often do they use the product? Is it a great review because that is what they bought? Or they donít know any difference in the quality of different products.
Like I have said before and others have stated here. Of all the reloading products you buy the scale is the most important. It is one piece of equipment that if it is wrong can destroy a gun and hurt the person.
Some people think that a beam scale is always accurate. I know of two cases where it was not. That is why check weights are very important. To verify that the scale is reading what it should. The weights that come with some of the scales in most cases are calibration weights not check weights. There is a difference. Also it does not do any good to put a 25 or more calibration weight on the scale for a check weight when you are only loading say 3 grains of powder.
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:26   #67
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My intention is to go and purchase one of the aforementioned scales later this week..

It is frustrating though.. I have looked at the RCBS 502 and 505... Like anything, you have people who say theyre great in reviews, and others who say their crap. I just dont want to make a mistake on a $70-$80 scale here...

The dillion scale I believe can only be purchased from Dillion so I might go that route as well..

I'll make a final decision in the next day soon, but I am waiting for my book (to be delivered tomorrow) so when I see what "components" I need (bullets, powder, primer [dont need brass now]), Ill buy the proper scale... (so I can hopefully order everything at one time).. you know.. shipping sucks so I want to get it all together...
Get the Dillon and don't look back. No reason to spend more. If you want to spend more I would get the Redding. But ANY decent beam scale is going to be more reliable then the cheap electric. You should also invest in some check weights. But barring spending money on some weights you can make a 5 gr item and check you scale regularly with it to see if it is weighting the same as it was before. That is the downfall of the Electric Scale. People who actually check them regularly will find the cheap ones do drift. Once or twice they are OK. But if you check them 20 times are they reading the same all 20 times that day and the next and the next. In the 5 gr weight range not the huge check weight that comes with the scale.
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:40   #68
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It is frustrating though.. I have looked at the RCBS 502 and 505... Like anything, you have people who say theyre great in reviews, and others who say their crap. I just dont want to make a mistake on a $70-$80 scale here...

The dillion scale I believe can only be purchased from Dillion so I might go that route as well..
Either of the RCBS 502 or 505 will be fine. So will the Dillon and it is a little cheaper based on my quick review of web sites.

In either event, you still need a set of check weights.

You can read the User Manuals for each of these scales from the respective manufacturer's web sites. See if there is some part of the description that seems to favor one over the other.

OTOH, if your short list really IS 502, 505 or Eliminator, start a new thread asking specifically about those scales. I don't think you want to ask about the Lee. It isn't highly regarded around here.

CAVEAT:

I have a rather low end RCBS scale that came in a kit I bought about 30 years ago. I don't use it. Further, I haven't used ANY of the listed beam scales. I'm using the Dillon D-Terminator digital scale and an RCBS Chargemaster which incorporates a digital scale.

But I would use any of the 3 and I don't think I have a preference for 2 poise versus 3 poise as long as I can set the charge weight to 0.1 gr.

Richard
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:49   #69
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Website reviews can be helpful for flagging potential 'gotchas', but sometimes I question the common sense and actual past experience of some reviewers. So although web reviews may help in a decision, you sometimes have to consider the source.
Even the purported 'gotchas' are often wrong. I just read a review of one of the RCBS scales and it said the scale could only be set to the whole gr and that the 0.1 increment had to be read off the beam pointer. WRONG!

Sometimes it is worth reading the User Manual in advance of purchase just to see if the person writing the review had the faintest glimmer of real knowledge or experience.

Richard
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:56   #70
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Also, any issue with a Good Beam is going to be handled easily by the manufacture. Dillon has a STELLAR Customer Service Dept. I have even heard of someone dropping a box of bullets on their scale and Dillon replaced it. Not recommended but that was the report by the owner. You simply can not go wrong with Dillon. People know that Dillon stands behind their mechanical products forever so they have excellent resale as a result. Any issue with any product is promptly handled for free by Dillon. So people buy used Dillon items with confidence and pay a little more as a result.
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Old 10-01-2012, 12:02   #71
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Also, any issue with a Good Beam is going to be handled easily by the manufacture. Dillon has a STELLAR Customer Service Dept. I have even heard of someone dropping a box of bullets on their scale and Dillon replaced it. Not recommended but that was the report by the owner. You simply can not go wrong with Dillon. People know that Dillon stands behind their mechanical products forever so they have excellent resale as a result. Any issue with any product is promptly handled for free by Dillon. So people buy used Dillon items with confidence and pay a little more as a result.
Ill probably just go with the Dillion.. they send me catalogs all the time so I feel like I owe it to them

Theyve spend a ton on catalogs so I think theyve earned the business
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Old 10-01-2012, 12:36   #72
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How did you get on the Dillon list?
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Old 10-01-2012, 15:01   #73
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I got news for you... Ive been snooping around looking for a potential component supplier... Looks like the hardest part of reloading is going to be finding bullets!!!!!
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Old 10-01-2012, 15:16   #74
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I got news for you... Ive been snooping around looking for a potential component supplier... Looks like the hardest part of reloading is going to be finding bullets!!!!!
Think of the money you'll save by not using bullets in your reloads!


Are you hoping for something specific? I never have supply problems with Montana Gold, but I order ahead of when I actually need them. They're also a little spendy.
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Old 10-01-2012, 15:34   #75
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I got news for you... Ive been snooping around looking for a potential component supplier... Looks like the hardest part of reloading is going to be finding bullets!!!!!
Precision Delta for jacketed bullets
Powder Valley for powder and primers

Powder Valley also sells bullets but the only bullets I have bought from them are Sierra BTHP Match for .308

There's a $27.50 HazMat fee on shipping powder and primers. Therefore, the order size has to be large enough that the savings covers the fee versus buying in small quantities at the LGS.

Montana Gold also makes jacketed bullets. I have bought a bunch of their .45 ACP, 9mm and .223. The prices are better at Precision Delta but sometimes Montana Gold will have what I need in stock.

Once again, look at the stickies. There is one dedicated to suppliers.

Richard
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