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Old 09-26-2012, 10:15   #51
Glock2336
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Originally Posted by fuzzy03cls View Post
No no no......You should be using 115gr Federal champion.

I did not try Federal Champion but I did try many others...

General Glocking
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:18   #52
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People are paying 100 bucks plus to get a decent trigger on their M&Ps...60 bucks to cure your 9mm Glock ejection is not bad.

Besides, Apex actually tested very heavily, their extractor before releasing it...unlike Glock with the MIM dip extractor. Also, the Glock extractor is a fairly complex part to machine out of bar stock. The cost reflects that.

Also, if you (like me) have done nothing to your Glock...paying 60 bucks for something that fixes this problem is NOT a huge expense. I will probably lose almost that in trading or selling the thing. I'd rather try this first.

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Old 09-26-2012, 10:26   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brickboy240 View Post
People are paying 100 bucks plus to get a decent trigger on their M&Ps...60 bucks to cure your 9mm Glock ejection is not bad.

Besides, Apex actually tested very heavily, their extractor before releasing it...unlike Glock with the MIM dip extractor. Also, the Glock extractor is a fairly complex part to machine out of bar stock. The cost reflects that.

Also, if you (like me) have done nothing to your Glock...paying 60 bucks for something that fixes this problem is NOT a huge expense. I will probably lose almost that in trading or selling the thing. I'd rather try this first.

-brickboy240
Some issues that have been encountered are:
Terrible triggers, early unlocking causing precision problems, magazine springs binding, failures to fire and even failure to extract for some 9mm's.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:31   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brickboy240 View Post
People are paying 100 bucks plus to get a decent trigger on their M&Ps...60 bucks to cure your 9mm Glock ejection is not bad.-brickboy240
And the XDm pilots are paying 145.00 for PRP triggers to get a decent trigger in their XD/Ms because a fluff and buff does not cut it.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:41   #55
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Originally Posted by fuzzy03cls View Post
No no no......You should be using 115gr Federal champion.
I've toyed with this, too. Originally, I thought that faster slide speed might improve things. What I've, since, found out is that it only speeds everything up.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc Angel View Post
Good luck with the LWD extractor. I tried that solution, too. It didn't work all that well for me; but, maybe, it will for you.
Was it at least better than with the OEM extractor?
Out of all the different extractors you've tried, which one gave the best ejection? The double feed I got had the case flipped over and facing me and parallel to the next bullet trying to feed. This was with Aguila ammo 124gr FMJ.

Most of the Speer Gold Dot 124 +Ps I shot ejected straight up into the air.

Out of the 50 rounds of Federal white box FMJ ammo I bought from the range, 10 hit me in the forehead with one taking a chip out of the lens of my prescription glasses.
You were quoting me, right?

No, I didn't notice any improvement, at all, with the LWD extractor. In fact, it was worse. I tried using this extractor with both LCI and non-LCI 9mm SLB's, as well as an LCI 40 caliber SLB. Results were, disappointingly, about the same.

So far the best ejection has come from a standard OEM Glock LCI extractor fitted with a non-LCI SLB. Second best extraction has come from a standard OEM Glock LCI extractor backed up to a White Sound Defense, EDP rod. I got a 2% failure rate with the former combination; and a 6 or 7% failure rate with the White Sound device.

As you can see I'm not having an horrendous problem with my G-19; but, then again, it only takes one red hot casing in the eye to ruin you day!

In your particular situation I suspect that either the extractor claw is extraordinarily loose, or the recoil guide rod might, also, be involved. I'm presently on my 4th 9mm extractor; and I should, probably, add that I only use Wolff Gunsprings' guide rods and springs. (They're only for [up to] 3rd gen Glocks and provide very smooth slide movement.)

I've got a 40 caliber extractor and another SLB coming from Glockmeister in the mail. The only two things I have left to test now are (1) the use of a 40 caliber extractor, and (2) the replacement of the original #336 ejector with a new #30274 ejector. If I'm not able to get 100% reliable operation out of either of these combinations then, as much as it hurts, I'm going to be carrying either a CZ or an M&P. (Probably a CZ, 'Shadow'!)

Today I even went so far as to call my old friends at Smyrna Tech Support. Seven minutes on hold with no one picking up my, 'important phone call'. (Which is, I suppose, better than getting lied to, again.) Right now, I'm almost done with this crap.

Last edited by Arc Angel; 09-26-2012 at 10:48..
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:45   #56
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Originally Posted by JBS View Post
And the XDm pilots are paying 145.00 for PRP triggers to get a decent trigger in their XD/Ms because a fluff and buff does not cut it.

Plus shipping
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:46   #57
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Originally Posted by PAGunner View Post
I changed platforms over this problem. Too bad all the Kool aid drinking fanboys didn't do that from day one, cause if they did erratic ejection would have been long since fixed.

I'm glad they didn't however, I love the way my M&Ps feel in my hand and perform. I could never go back to the akward angled block grip.
Did you ever buy a newer one & test it for yourself?
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:52   #58
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Originally Posted by Arc Angel View Post
ADDED: I'm going to add something else to this discussion: I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that the vertical height of the slide cutout in my G-19 is (or has to be) different from the original (slightly smaller) slide cutouts on older Glocks. I suspect that even a very slight difference of as little as .001" will cause sufficient vertical extractor, 'wobble' to cause erratically held case rims to come flying back at your face.
That is an interesting theory, and you could very well be on to something. Another theory as well, is the ejection port dimensions, there is a great deal of good information here:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=92447
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:01   #59
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I am not a fan of the lowering the ejection port theory. But, I must say it's a good business idea of him.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:09   #60
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Originally Posted by Made in Austria View Post
I am not a fan of the lowering the ejection port theory. But, I must say it's a good business idea of him.

Just curious but can you please explain why not a fan?
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:10   #61
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Good luck with the Lonewolf extractor, it made my ejection worse. I put the stock extractor back in. Hopefully, the Apex will fix the BTF.

Last edited by Chip62; 09-26-2012 at 11:22.. Reason: used wrong word
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:16   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAGunner View Post
I changed platforms over this problem. Too bad all the Kool aid drinking fanboys didn't do that from day one, cause if they did erratic ejection would have been long since fixed.

I'm glad they didn't however, I love the way my M&Ps feel in my hand and perform. I could never go back to the akward angled block grip.
yes,so did i until i carried it to work for a week iwb,by friday the m&p logo were full of rust,cleaned it off the best i could and sold it the next day-jeff
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:23   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc Angel View Post
Before I start another thread, how about someone answering me this: If I take a #30274 ejector out of a 4th gen THU, and insert it in place of my #336 ejector in a 3rd gen THU, is it going to function? Anybody tried this yet?
I installed one in my Gen 2 and It works so it should work in a Gen 3. Ejections are very consistent.

Have you tried the new Glock non dipped extractor? They appear to be better quality then the dipped. I installed one in my Gen 4 G17 with the new ejector and so far no brass to the face, FTF, FTE, etc.
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Last edited by curlysir; 09-26-2012 at 11:31..
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:26   #64
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Originally Posted by Fire_Medic View Post
That is an interesting theory, and you could very well be on to something. Another theory as well, is the ejection port dimensions, there is a great deal of good information here:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=92447

The ejection port modifications were done before the prototype extractors ever came out, their goal is for that to be a last resort after every other measure is exhausted.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:28   #65
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Originally Posted by Fire_Medic View Post
Just curious but can you please explain why not a fan?
- It weakens the slide in that area even more than it already is.

- It will probably start to rust.

- It's a band-aid fix

All you need is a proper working extraction mechanism. No need for cutting around on the slide.


General Glocking

This is not the only Glock with an cracked ejection port. There are more out there.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:31   #66
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Originally Posted by Made in Austria View Post
- It weakens the slide in that area even more than it already is.

- It will probably start to rust.

- It's a band-aid fix

All you need is a proper working extraction mechanism. No need for cutting around on the slide.


General Glocking

This is not the only Glock with an cracked ejection port. There are more out there.

It's also been done successfully with 1911's for decades... There's not that much material removed where it will significantly weaken it but it will be less resistant to corrosion.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:49   #67
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Originally Posted by Glock2336 View Post
It's also been done successfully with 1911's for decades... There's not that much material removed where it will significantly weaken it but it will be less resistant to corrosion.

Yes, but a Glock slide/steel is different than most 1911 slides due to their different steel properties/hardness. A 1911 slide is more flexible than a Glock slide. Both slides have their advantages and disadvantages.

Last edited by Made in Austria; 09-26-2012 at 11:50..
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:58   #68
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Originally Posted by Made in Austria View Post
Yes, but a Glock slide/steel is different than most 1911 slides due to their different steel properties/hardness. A 1911 slide is more flexible than a Glock slide. Both slides have their advantages and disadvantages.


Very true, but it will be hard to find a data point on these modified Glock slides since there are only a few. If some or all start cracking then we will eventually find out.
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Old 09-26-2012, 12:07   #69
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I agree, it's hard to tell for sure without reliable data. The problem with the Glock slide is the extreme hardness. If you cut a piece out of the hardness then you have a very abrupt transition from hard to soft and that's probably the line where the crack will start.
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Old 09-26-2012, 12:08   #70
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It's also been done successfully with 1911's for decades... There's not that much material removed where it will significantly weaken it but it will be less resistant to corrosion.
This was my point........
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Old 09-26-2012, 12:18   #71
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The ejection port modifications were done before the prototype extractors ever came out, their goal is for that to be a last resort after every other measure is exhausted.
I understand, was just adding more data to the thread. I think at this point, despite what someone (or some company) might want to or not want to admit, that slides could also be out of spec, as well as many of the other parts affected.

The stacking of tolerances and parts being made from different sources (outsourced) is now apparent.

Simple example- If you take a Ghost "Rocket" and fit it to one pistol, you cannot just take that part (the connector) and slap into an other pistol. It most often will not work, and in the rare event it does, will still need some fitting, because the parts between the pistols are machined with different tolerances.

You can however, take the connector, and all the parts associated with the function of the trigger(ie: trigger bar, housing, etc) and swap them over and it will work, because you have moved all the working parts of this aspect of the pistol, that were fitted to work together, so no tolerances were changed.

I'm no engineer, do not work for glock, do not work for Apex, just a regular guy with his own observations.

Just my $0.02

Just trying to add to the collective info, the more information we share, the more we can all help to finding a resolution. Some of us are to heavily invested in the platform to just walk from it. $60 on a new part is better than the loss of $$$ one would endure to dump a pistol. Plus, I would not myself sell a problematic gun to someone else with out disclosing the issues it may have, you do not know if that person will be carrying that pistol or using it for self defense.

Unfortunately right now, at this point in time, it's a strange era for someone new looking for a solidly reliable 9MM, because the pistol that was once "bullet proof" as far as reliability goes is not, and the new kid on the block (M&P) has it's own fair shares of issues in the 9MM caliber. So it's a roll of the dice, hit or miss.

My G19 started erratic ejection after more than 1,500 rounds through it, but it still has not a failure of any kind. However, as I have stated before in other threads, "for me" the occasional BTF is nothing new, all of my 3rd Gen guns have done so, but not consistently so it has not bothered me.

There are so many variables that can account for that..........
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Last edited by Fire_Medic; 09-26-2012 at 13:39..
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Old 09-26-2012, 12:40   #72
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I understand, was just adding more data to the thread. I don't think at this point, despite what someone (or some company) might want to or not want to admit, that slides could also be out of spec, as well as many of the other parts affected.

The stacking of tolerances and parts being made from different sources (outsourced) is now apparent.

Simple example- If you take a Ghost "Rocket" and fit it to one pistol, you cannot just take that part (the connector) and slap into an other pistol. It most often will not work, and in the rare event it does, will still need some fitting, because the parts between the pistols are machined with different tolerances.

You can however, take the connector, and all the parts associated with the function of the trigger(ie: trigger bar, housing, etc) and swap them over and it will work, because you have moved all the working parts of this aspect of the pistol, that were fitted to work together, so no tolerances were changed.

I'm no engineer, do not work for glock, do not work for Apex, just a regular guy with his own observations.

Just my $0.02

Just trying to add to the collective info, the more information we share, the more we can all help to finding a resolution. Some of us are to heavily invested in the platform to just walk from it. $60 on a new part is better than the loss of $$$ one would endure to dump a pistol. Plus, I would not myself sell a problematic gun to someone else with out disclosing the issues it may have, you do not know if that person will be carrying that pistol or using it for self defense.

Unfortunately right now, at this point in time, it's a strange era for someone new looking for a solidly reliable 9MM, because the pistol that was once "bullet proof" as far as reliability goes is not, and the new kid on the block (M&P) has it's own fair shares of issues in the 9MM caliber. So it's a roll of the dice, hit or miss.

My G19 started erratic ejection after more than 1,500 rounds through it, but it still has not a failure of any kind. However, as I have stated before in other threads, "for me" the occasional BTF is nothing new, all of my 3rd Gen guns have done so, but not consistently so it has not bothered me.

There are so many variables that can account for that..........


Hey I agree with you, I was just posting what Randy said about the ejection port mod so people understand that Apex is not telling everyone with Extraction/Ejection problems to send it to them so they can fix it. They are hoping their extractor works for 99% of the problematic guns out there.
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Old 09-26-2012, 12:52   #73
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Hey I agree with you, I was just posting what Randy said about the ejection port mod so people understand that Apex is not telling everyone with Extraction/Ejection problems to send it to them so they can fix it. They are hoping their extractor works for 99% of the problematic guns out there.
No disagreement brother just adding my $0.02
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Old 09-26-2012, 13:34   #74
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According to Randy Lee on another forum they only had 70 extractors available in the first run. Thatís a very cautious production run.
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Old 09-26-2012, 13:38   #75
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According to Randy Lee on another forum they only had 70 extractors available in the first run. That’s a very cautious production run.

70 now and more in about 3 weeks. Remember people that they are a small shop, and there's multiple processes involved before they are ready for sale. For example:

Manufacturing
QC Check
Melonite
QC Check again
Package
etc...

Last edited by Glock2336; 09-26-2012 at 13:49..
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