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Old 09-19-2012, 13:36   #1
mikeivan
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Referred to the Harris County Grand Jury

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-te...is-3871363.php

It will be interesting to see how this one turns out.
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Old 09-19-2012, 13:51   #2
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After reading the story I would guess she walks. She had called 911 before stopping because of his behavior. "Her account of what happened seemed to match that of witnesses in the area, sheriff's deputies said."
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Old 09-19-2012, 13:59   #3
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I guess you can argue this one two ways:

Why didn't she drive away rather than shoot?

or

Driving away could have put her in more harm if he followed. At least at the gas station, the public was around.
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Old 09-19-2012, 14:17   #4
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Young, 23 year old female, by herself in dim light (It get's light in Florida about 7:00 AM... 7:20 AM in Texas, an hour behind Florida, would still be pretty dark).... minor fender bender... the other party appears to go ballistic... (witnesses note)... attempts to violently breach her locked vehicle door and pounds on vehicle after she pulls over in a lighted place to exchange the proper insurance info.

Seems like a resonable shoot to me.

The one question I have is the two rounds fired. Were they fired through a window, or was her window down in an attempt to communicate with the deceased. The latter would show a reasonable attempt to engage in the proper conversation that would follow a fender bender... the former would show real fear.

In either case, I think she was in the right. I guess it now depends on the make up of the Harris County grand Jury. With the right people (meaning reasonable citizens who support the right to self defense), this is a No True Bill.
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Old 09-19-2012, 15:26   #5
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Several stories from local TV coverage, not quite as clear cut, perhaps:

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?se...cal&id=8813201


http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?se...cal&id=8815444
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Old 09-19-2012, 16:12   #6
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Reading the second news item it seems very clear why the incident was sent to the Grand Jury.
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Old 09-19-2012, 16:22   #7
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She had every right to stay where she was and defend herself. Good for her. Good shoot. It is a lesson for those who elect to act uncivilized and hostile toward a lone woman.
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Old 09-19-2012, 19:40   #8
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I hope she has retained an attorney. I wonder how much that would cost. Sometimes it is at least less expensive to retreat.
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Old 09-20-2012, 14:14   #9
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From the totality of the circumstances it looks like a good shoot to me. Were talking TX here. If the police thought it wasnt she probably wouldnt have gone home.
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Old 09-20-2012, 15:59   #10
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If you wish to act like a testosterone fueled barbarian and demonstrate that to a lone young women in a parking lot with daylight not yet arrived.... OK, fine. Just don't do it in a state that allows CCW... and allows citizens to defend themselves from that 'barbarian' behavior.

I think the term is "Error in the victim selection process".

Sorry 'bout that.
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Old 09-20-2012, 16:45   #11
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Quote:
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Reading the second news item it seems very clear why the incident was sent to the Grand Jury.

ALL cases of a fatal injury where one person purposely injures another in a way that results in a fatality goes to a grand jury in Texas. The law does not allow an alternative.

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Old 09-20-2012, 17:10   #12
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And if the Grand Jury clears the shooter, it is over, right? No more waiting and worrying, no charges, no civil actions?
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Old 09-20-2012, 17:23   #13
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The grand Jury will deal with criminal charges. Irrespective of their ruling, civil actions are always possible (unless Texas has an exemption provision that I am not aware of).

Remember that OJ Simpson was found Not Guilty of murder in a criminal trial, and then hammered in a following civil suit.

As long as there are lawyers, there will be civil suits.
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Old 09-20-2012, 18:44   #14
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She drove into a safe, well-lighted place, with folks around. That seems to have been a wise move, The just-driving-away defense might have put her back into the darkness, with Road Rager likely to be coming after her.

As for the one "witness" who said he saw/heard no road-raging behaviour before the shot, he could well have been the typical morning commuter, still dead to the world, until the shots woke him up. Never under-estimate the grogginess of the morning commuter!

At this point in time, she gets the benefit of my doubt.

Last edited by Rex G; 09-20-2012 at 18:45..
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Old 09-20-2012, 19:53   #15
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OldCurlyWolf, you are wrong. The only cases that go to the GJ are the ones the DA has selected to go to the GJ. The DA could looks at the facts and decide not to press charges, and that's that. No GJ involved.
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Old 09-20-2012, 22:54   #16
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Originally Posted by Chris Chris View Post
Young, 23 year old female, by herself in dim light (It get's light in Florida about 7:00 AM... 7:20 AM in Texas, an hour behind Florida, would still be pretty dark).... minor fender bender... the other party appears to go ballistic... (witnesses note)... attempts to violently breach her locked vehicle door and pounds on vehicle after she pulls over in a lighted place to exchange the proper insurance info.

Seems like a resonable shoot to me.

The one question I have is the two rounds fired. Were they fired through a window, or was her window down in an attempt to communicate with the deceased. The latter would show a reasonable attempt to engage in the proper conversation that would follow a fender bender... the former would show real fear.

In either case, I think she was in the right. I guess it now depends on the make up of the Harris County grand Jury. With the right people (meaning reasonable citizens who support the right to self defense), this is a No True Bill.
Window was up. The video in the article below shows her car at 1:23, and it is "shatter-cracked" all over except for what could be a bullet hole in the left edge.

Could a man make a window do that by hitting it?

http://autos.aol.com/article/road-ra...on-police-say/


I feel really bad for her. I hope she doesn't get indicted.
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Old 09-20-2012, 23:25   #17
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OldCurlyWolf, you are wrong. The only cases that go to the GJ are the ones the DA has selected to go to the GJ. The DA could looks at the facts and decide not to press charges, and that's that. No GJ involved.
Is that Texas law? I think in some states there are some DAs who send all potential cases to the grand jury just as a matter of policy.

Don't forget that in most places, grand juries are independent.
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Old 09-20-2012, 23:26   #18
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The grand Jury will deal with criminal charges. Irrespective of their ruling, civil actions are always possible (unless Texas has an exemption provision that I am not aware of).

Remember that OJ Simpson was found Not Guilty of murder in a criminal trial, and then hammered in a following civil suit.

As long as there are lawyers, there will be civil suits.
What is wrong with civil suits?
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Old 09-21-2012, 09:46   #19
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Irrespective of their ruling, civil actions are always possible
My state has a provision that a shooting that is ruled to be justified cannot provoke civil damages. Perhaps such provisions are not as widespread as they should be.
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Old 09-22-2012, 07:44   #20
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The DA in Houston will make the call whether to take it to the Grand Jury, if he decides to charge her with a crime. May likely not charge her. This sends a good message to other nut balls who have an urge to hurt folks.
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Old 09-22-2012, 09:08   #21
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I may disagree a bit. I have had my concealed handgun license(chl) since 1998 and have been a chl instructor for 6 years. Every time I have asked, our state department of public safety(dps) has always said that every shooting involving injury or death will go to the grand jury. The dps issues our chl permits and trains our chl instructors so I would hope they would get it right.
In addition, I can't remember a local case of a self defense shooting that did not go to a grand jury. Including the ones that were cleary self defense. Granted it could just be our da.
Tried to find a site that explicitly states this but had no luck. I will keep looking though. If UHlawpup is still active on this site he would probably be knowledgable on this topic.
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Old 09-22-2012, 10:54   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCmasterblaster View Post
She had every right to stay where she was and defend herself. Good for her. Good shoot. It is a lesson for those who elect to act uncivilized and hostile toward a lone woman.
Very well said!
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Old 09-22-2012, 11:09   #23
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My state has a provision that a shooting that is ruled to be justified cannot provoke civil damages. Perhaps such provisions are not as widespread as they should be.
This is correct, and since this shooting was in Texas, when/if the GJ finds the shooting justified, the shooter will be cleared and no civil case will occur. Look at it this way how is her car other than the fact that they were involved in a fender bender any different than her house. If an irate man was beating down the door to her house it would be the same thing when he went into a rage and tried to gain access to her is a woman really going to fist fight with a man? This may in fact been a swell great guy, when he presented as a threat he and his family will need to live with the results of his actions.
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Old 09-22-2012, 14:18   #24
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dcc12, you are wrong. The fact that a grand jury returned a no bill is no bar to a civil suit.
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Old 09-22-2012, 15:44   #25
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dcc12, you are wrong. The fact that a grand jury returned a no bill is no bar to a civil suit.
I think it is in Texas.
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