Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-21-2012, 10:25   #61
Glock36shooter
Senior Member
 
Glock36shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tilley View Post
Funny you should mention that. Do something none of the other little resident zombies do here: research. Look back on the last 100 remarks from Animal Mother, and you will see the essence of your above quote as AM's typical answer in at least 85% of the time.


Scary...
I've read many of AM's posts here and He (I'm assuming He as I do not know AM personally) has handed you guys your arses over and over and over again. I see a LOT of you guys replying "Nah Uh!". I see a lot of AM presenting factual material that can be highly referenced and evidenced, and lot of you guys making bold claims and then bolting without the slightest bit of evidence to back it up except the ramblings of bronze aged desert scribes. That's what I see.

I do admire you guys for coming back over and over just to get your heads kicked in. If you're gonna be dumb you gotta be tough for sure.
Glock36shooter is offline  
Old 09-21-2012, 10:34   #62
Glock36shooter
Senior Member
 
Glock36shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schabesbert View Post
I'll do what you're unable to ... provide some evidence.


In the US, the various protestant denominations’ populations are:


Baptist 38,662,005
Pentecostal 13,673,149
Lutheran 7,860,683
Presbyterian 5,844,855
Methodist 5,473,129
Anglican 2,323,100
Adventist 2,203,600
Holiness 2,123,602
Other 1,366,678


According to that same article, there are over 67million Catholics

In the list above, Baptists, Pentecostals (most), Presbyterians, Holiness (maybe), and “Other” (maybe) believe as you claim Christians believe.
See, for instance, various beliefs compared on “Can Salvation Be Lost?
… which is an even more stringent belief than you’re proposing doesn’t exist, since if salvation can be lost then it isn’t quite the easy salvation that you wrongly claim Christians believe.

That means that, being generous, 55,825,434 protestants support your theory, and 17,860,512 do not. However, add to that the 67million Catholics, and we show that you are wrong by quite a large margin: 84,860,512 to 55,825,434.

If you want to talk about Christians Worldwide, you are even more wrong.
What is required to be saved?

There are multiple passages that say things like "salvation isn't earned by deeds of the law but by grace." and "God gave his only son so that whoever believes in him shall have enternal life" or some such other nonsense.

Not by deeds, not by works, not by confession. But by believing and accepting the messiah.

Last edited by Glock36shooter; 09-21-2012 at 10:41..
Glock36shooter is offline  
Old 09-21-2012, 10:36   #63
Glock36shooter
Senior Member
 
Glock36shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schabesbert View Post
Didn't say it was.

You are changing the subject as is common.
I remember a story about a pot calling a kettle something.

Quote:
The point I was addressing was whether the generality that Christians believe in a cheap grace was correct.
You're the only one using the term Cheap Grace.
Glock36shooter is offline  
Old 09-21-2012, 14:04   #64
Schabesbert
Senior Member
 
Schabesbert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Posts: 10,616


Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
What is required to be saved?

There are multiple passages that say things like "salvation isn't earned by deeds of the law but by grace." and "God gave his only son so that whoever believes in him shall have enternal life" or some such other nonsense.

Not by deeds, not by works, not by confession. But by believing and accepting the messiah.
I'm glad that you're actually asking the question now, rather than assuming the answer, as you incorrectly had until now.

It's funny, but I see (as a general rule) militant atheists militating against fundamentalist arguments. Militant atheists are fundies at heart.

Now, maybe if you look at what is actually meant, rather than the simplistic (and wrong) view put forth by fundies, you would actually know what you're arguing against.

The only thing worse than beating a dead horse ...

is beating the WRONG dead horse.
__________________
He is no fool who exchanges that which he cannot keep for that which he can never lose.

Ho kurios mou, kai ho theos mou
Schabesbert is offline  
Old 09-21-2012, 14:11   #65
Schabesbert
Senior Member
 
Schabesbert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA
Posts: 10,616


Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
I remember a story about a pot calling a kettle something.
You're probably remembering something that was used to describe your tendencies.

Quote:
You're the only one using the term Cheap Grace.
It could be because I'm the only one using precise, concise, and accurate terms.
__________________
He is no fool who exchanges that which he cannot keep for that which he can never lose.

Ho kurios mou, kai ho theos mou
Schabesbert is offline  
Old 09-21-2012, 14:56   #66
Glock36shooter
Senior Member
 
Glock36shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schabesbert View Post
I'm glad that you're actually asking the question now, rather than assuming the answer, as you incorrectly had until now.

It's funny, but I see (as a general rule) militant atheists militating against fundamentalist arguments. Militant atheists are fundies at heart.

Now, maybe if you look at what is actually meant, rather than the simplistic (and wrong) view put forth by fundies, you would actually know what you're arguing against.

The only thing worse than beating a dead horse ...

is beating the WRONG dead horse.
Are you going to answer the question or not?
Glock36shooter is offline  
Old 09-22-2012, 07:05   #67
steveksux
Massive Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,208
Proof Jesus was married?

He willingly allowed himself to be put to death by crucifiction.

That's proof enough for me.

What, you need a marriage license????

Randy
steveksux is online now  
Old 09-22-2012, 11:36   #68
Glock36shooter
Senior Member
 
Glock36shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveksux View Post
He willingly allowed himself to be put to death by crucifiction.
Willingly? Once they caught him he didn't have much of a choice. He might have faced it bravely... no one will ever really know since we aren't even 100% sure the Christ Character ever even existed. Most likely Christ is a legend (Like Krishna or Mithras) that got mixed in with an actual street preacher that was a political trouble maker at the time and was crucified for it. Which isn't all that special. They crucified rapists and murders too. Did they die for our sins too?

Quote:
That's proof enough for me.
Then your standard for proof is highly weak. By your standard if a rapist or murderer willingly allowed themselves to be crucified for your sins... they're god too.

Quote:
What, you need a marriage license????

Randy
Is that a gay joke? Are you that guy?
Glock36shooter is offline  
Old 09-22-2012, 11:37   #69
Glock36shooter
Senior Member
 
Glock36shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schabesbert View Post
I'm glad that you're actually asking the question now, rather than assuming the answer, as you incorrectly had until now.

It's funny, but I see (as a general rule) militant atheists militating against fundamentalist arguments. Militant atheists are fundies at heart.

Now, maybe if you look at what is actually meant, rather than the simplistic (and wrong) view put forth by fundies, you would actually know what you're arguing against.

The only thing worse than beating a dead horse ...

is beating the WRONG dead horse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
Are you going to answer the question or not?
Are you going to answer the question or not?
Glock36shooter is offline  
Old 09-22-2012, 12:41   #70
steveksux
Massive Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
Willingly? Once they caught him he didn't have much of a choice. He might have faced it bravely... no one will ever really know since we aren't even 100% sure the Christ Character ever even existed. Most likely Christ is a legend (Like Krishna or Mithras) that got mixed in with an actual street preacher that was a political trouble maker at the time and was crucified for it. Which isn't all that special. They crucified rapists and murders too. Did they die for our sins too?



Then your standard for proof is highly weak. By your standard if a rapist or murderer willingly allowed themselves to be crucified for your sins... they're god too.



Is that a gay joke? Are you that guy?
Are you an idiot?

The thread is about "Proof Jesus was married?".

Try reading the response with, you know, the actual topic in mind and get back to me.

Randy

Last edited by steveksux; 09-22-2012 at 12:42..
steveksux is online now  
Old 09-22-2012, 12:50   #71
Kingarthurhk
Isaiah 53:4-9
 
Kingarthurhk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
Willingly? Once they caught him he didn't have much of a choice. He might have faced it bravely... no one will ever really know since we aren't even 100% sure the Christ Character ever even existed. Most likely Christ is a legend (Like Krishna or Mithras) that got mixed in with an actual street preacher that was a political trouble maker at the time and was crucified for it. Which isn't all that special. They crucified rapists and murders too. Did they die for our sins too?
John 12:20-33, "
Jesus Predicts His Death

20 Now there were some Greeks among those who went up to worship at the festival. 21 They came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida in Galilee, with a request. “Sir,” they said, “we would like to see Jesus.” 22 Philip went to tell Andrew; Andrew and Philip in turn told Jesus.

23 Jesus replied, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. 24 Very truly I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. 25 Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 26 Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.

27 Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour.28 Father, glorify your name!”
Then a voice came from heaven, “I have glorified it, and will glorify it again.” 29 The crowd that was there and heard it said it had thundered; others said an angel had spoken to him.

30 Jesus said, “This voice was for your benefit, not mine. 31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. 32 And I, when I am lifted up[g] from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” 33 He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die."

Mark 8:31-38, "
31 He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again. 32 He spoke plainly about this, and Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him.

33 But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter. “Get behind me, Satan!” he said. “You do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

34 The crowd spoke up, “We have heard from the Law that the Messiah will remain forever, so how can you say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’? Who is this ‘Son of Man’?”

35 Then Jesus told them, “You are going to have the light just a little while longer. Walk while you have the light, before darkness overtakes you. Whoever walks in the dark does not know where they are going.36 Believe in the light while you have the light, so that you may become children of light.” When he had finished speaking, Jesus left and hid himself from them."

Mark 15:33-40, " At noon, darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon. 34 And at three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).[b]
35 When some of those standing near heard this, they said, “Listen, he’s calling Elijah.”

36 Someone ran, filled a sponge with wine vinegar, put it on a staff, and offered it to Jesus to drink. “Now leave him alone. Let’s see if Elijah comes to take him down,” he said.

37 With a loud cry, Jesus breathed his last.

38 The curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. 39 And when the centurion, who stood there in front of Jesus, saw how he died,[c] he said, “Surely this man was the Son of God!”

40 Some women were watching from a distance. Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joseph,[d] and Salome. 41 In Galilee these women had followed him and cared for his needs. Many other women who had come up with him to Jerusalem were also there."

Jesus died because he was crushed by my sins, your sins, everyone's sins, and was put out from the presence of God.

He died the Atheist's death.
__________________
Glock 17, 19, 20SF, 21C, 22, 26, 27, Glock E-Tool, Glock knife
Quod ego haereticus appellari sequere Jesum.
Kingarthurhk is offline  
Old 09-22-2012, 13:35   #72
Glock36shooter
Senior Member
 
Glock36shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveksux View Post
Are you an idiot?

The thread is about "Proof Jesus was married?".

Try reading the response with, you know, the actual topic in mind and get back to me.

Randy
How is him being crucified one way or the other proof of marriage?
Glock36shooter is offline  
Old 09-22-2012, 13:42   #73
Glock36shooter
Senior Member
 
Glock36shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
John 12:20-33, "
Jesus Predicts His Death

20 Now there were some Greeks among those who went up to worship at the festival. 21 They came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida in Galilee, with a request. “Sir,” they said, “we would like to see Jesus.” 22 Philip went to tell Andrew; Andrew and Philip in turn told Jesus.

23 Jesus replied, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. 24 Very truly I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. 25 Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 26 Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.

27 Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour.28 Father, glorify your name!”
Then a voice came from heaven, “I have glorified it, and will glorify it again.” 29 The crowd that was there and heard it said it had thundered; others said an angel had spoken to him.

30 Jesus said, “This voice was for your benefit, not mine. 31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. 32 And I, when I am lifted up[g] from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” 33 He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die."

Mark 8:31-38, "
31 He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again. 32 He spoke plainly about this, and Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him.

33 But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter. “Get behind me, Satan!” he said. “You do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

34 The crowd spoke up, “We have heard from the Law that the Messiah will remain forever, so how can you say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’? Who is this ‘Son of Man’?”

35 Then Jesus told them, “You are going to have the light just a little while longer. Walk while you have the light, before darkness overtakes you. Whoever walks in the dark does not know where they are going.36 Believe in the light while you have the light, so that you may become children of light.” When he had finished speaking, Jesus left and hid himself from them."

Mark 15:33-40, " At noon, darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon. 34 And at three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).[b]
35 When some of those standing near heard this, they said, “Listen, he’s calling Elijah.”

36 Someone ran, filled a sponge with wine vinegar, put it on a staff, and offered it to Jesus to drink. “Now leave him alone. Let’s see if Elijah comes to take him down,” he said.

37 With a loud cry, Jesus breathed his last.

38 The curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. 39 And when the centurion, who stood there in front of Jesus, saw how he died,[c] he said, “Surely this man was the Son of God!”

40 Some women were watching from a distance. Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joseph,[d] and Salome. 41 In Galilee these women had followed him and cared for his needs. Many other women who had come up with him to Jerusalem were also there."

Jesus died because he was crushed by my sins, your sins, everyone's sins, and was put out from the presence of God.

He died the Atheist's death.
So says the Bible, which we know to be in many cases inaccurate. It's just a story book. Bible verses aren't proof of anything by themselves. The bible also says the Christ character walked on water and could raise the dead. Doesn't mean it's so. You'll have to do a little better than PROOF from your story book. I am aware of what the Bible says. What I'm wanting to know is what really happened.
Glock36shooter is offline  
Old 09-22-2012, 15:16   #74
Kingarthurhk
Isaiah 53:4-9
 
Kingarthurhk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
So says the Bible, which we know to be in many cases inaccurate. It's just a story book. Bible verses aren't proof of anything by themselves. The bible also says the Christ character walked on water and could raise the dead. Doesn't mean it's so. You'll have to do a little better than PROOF from your story book. I am aware of what the Bible says. What I'm wanting to know is what really happened.
It happened as it says it happened. Either you accept it or you don't Jesus has been proven to be an actual historical figure through other Non-Christian Historians. The bible has been proven accurate time and time again through independant histories of the peoples it has encountered and through archaeology. It has a solid basis there. Whether you then accept its metaphysical claims based upon that solid foundation is ultimately your decision.

But, if you are looking for personal peace, assurance, hope and love, you are looking in the right book at the right God.
__________________
Glock 17, 19, 20SF, 21C, 22, 26, 27, Glock E-Tool, Glock knife
Quod ego haereticus appellari sequere Jesum.
Kingarthurhk is offline  
Old 09-22-2012, 15:17   #75
Kingarthurhk
Isaiah 53:4-9
 
Kingarthurhk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
How is him being crucified one way or the other proof of marriage?
Apparently, he has an unhappy marital life and is making a bizarre analogy.
__________________
Glock 17, 19, 20SF, 21C, 22, 26, 27, Glock E-Tool, Glock knife
Quod ego haereticus appellari sequere Jesum.
Kingarthurhk is offline  
Old 09-22-2012, 16:36   #76
Glock36shooter
Senior Member
 
Glock36shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
It happened as it says it happened. Either you accept it or you don't Jesus has been proven to be an actual historical figure through other Non-Christian Historians.
It is proven that he is referenced by ancient historians. Whether those writings are forgeries or not is still unknown. More than likely there was a street preacher named Yeshua or whatever the actual name of Jesus was. And He may very have claimed to be the Son of God. He surely would have been aware of the Messiah story if he was well versed in Judaism. But no one is 100% certain that he even existed. And it is absolutely unknowable if he was who he said he was. Again, I feel the Christ Character was some street preacher of his day and a political trouble maker. And they killed him for it. Along the way his story got meshed with legends similar to Krishna and Mithras.

Quote:
The bible has been proven accurate time and time again through independant histories of the peoples it has encountered and through archaeology.
It has also shown itself to be highly inaccurate many times as well. It's hit or miss.


Quote:
Whether you then accept its metaphysical claims based upon that solid foundation is ultimately your decision.

But, if you are looking for personal peace, assurance, hope and love, you are looking in the right book at the right God.
Yes I especially like the parts where it tells me that I can rape a virgin if I pay her dad 50 pieces of silver. I also like the parts where I can put every man and woman who isn't a virgin to the sword for not giving themselves over to me a my people. Lots of peace and love to be had in the bible for sure. The good old school "love me or I'll kill you." kinda love. God's a real stand up kinda fella.
Glock36shooter is offline  
Old 09-22-2012, 17:39   #77
MaxxAction
Senior Member
 
MaxxAction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: TN
Posts: 4,519
I personally don't think Jesus was married...

But if he was, what difference would it make?
__________________
Will Wrestle You For Food
MaxxAction is offline  
Old 09-22-2012, 17:46   #78
Kingarthurhk
Isaiah 53:4-9
 
Kingarthurhk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
It is proven that he is referenced by ancient historians. Whether those writings are forgeries or not is still unknown. More than likely there was a street preacher named Yeshua or whatever the actual name of Jesus was. And He may very have claimed to be the Son of God. He surely would have been aware of the Messiah story if he was well versed in Judaism. But no one is 100% certain that he even existed.
Non-Christian historians had no benefit from forging anything. He existed and changed the world. Whether you allow Him to change you is only a decision you can make.

Quote:
And it is absolutely unknowable if he was who he said he was. Again, I feel the Christ Character was some street preacher of his day and a political trouble maker. And they killed him for it. Along the way his story got meshed with legends similar to Krishna and Mithras.
If He were a poltical trouble maker, He would have been with the Jewish zealor order that opposed Rome. On the contrary He taught "give unto Caesar what is Caesar and to God what is God's." There is no doubt that with the uprising of Paganism at the time of Constantine and its mingling with Christianity that the Mithras cult got smashed into Catholicism along with Sunday worship and the rest.

Quote:
Yes I especially like the parts where it tells me that I can rape a virgin if I pay her dad 50 pieces of silver. I also like the parts where I can put every man and woman who isn't a virgin to the sword for not giving themselves over to me a my people. Lots of peace and love to be had in the bible for sure. The good old school "love me or I'll kill you." kinda love. God's a real stand up kinda fella.
Can you cite your references? Also, can you find a better religion on the planet?
__________________
Glock 17, 19, 20SF, 21C, 22, 26, 27, Glock E-Tool, Glock knife
Quod ego haereticus appellari sequere Jesum.
Kingarthurhk is offline  
Old 09-22-2012, 19:42   #79
High-Gear
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Kansas
Posts: 743
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post



Can you cite your references? Also, can you find a better religion on the planet?
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

On an interesting side note, if the girl refuses to marry him, she should be stoned to death!

Numbers 31:17

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.


As to a better religion...

If I agreed with Cavdoc, I'd say Atheism. However atheism is not a religion so I would say Jainism.
__________________
Ĉu vi parolas Esperanton?

Last edited by High-Gear; 09-22-2012 at 19:49..
High-Gear is offline  
Old 09-23-2012, 08:24   #80
steveksux
Massive Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
How is him being crucified one way or the other proof of marriage?
Only a married guy would choose crucifiction willingly.

Randy

Last edited by steveksux; 09-23-2012 at 08:24..
steveksux is online now  

 
  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 22:36.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 924
276 Members
648 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31