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Old 09-20-2012, 23:48   #51
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See! See! He did it again!
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Also, False.
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Old 09-21-2012, 00:17   #52
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Also, False.
No, it isn't.


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Old 09-21-2012, 00:28   #53
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See! See! He did it again!
I could have challenged you to actually produce evidence for your claim, but we all know how difficult you find it to do things like that. Given your obviously fragile mental condition, it just didn't seem right to press you that way.
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Old 09-21-2012, 05:18   #54
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Thank you for keeping us safe.
You're welcome.
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Old 09-21-2012, 05:52   #55
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Edit: Post moved to Tilley's sarcastic "apology" thread as it was more about his total lack of contribution in this forum.
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Old 09-21-2012, 05:54   #56
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Isaiah 53:1-3, "Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem."


So, from a worldly perspective Jesus was physically unatractive, and there is no mention whatsoever in scripture He was ever married.

Further, He would have nothing to offer a family.

Matthew 8:18-22, "When Jesus saw the crowd around him, he gave orders to cross to the other side of the lake. 19 Then a teacher of the law came to him and said, “Teacher, I will follow you wherever you go.”
20 Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”

21 Another disciple said to him, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”

22 But Jesus told him, “Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead.”
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Old 09-21-2012, 06:15   #57
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Originally Posted by Kingarthurhk View Post
So, from a worldly perspective Jesus was physically unatractive, and there is no mention whatsoever in scripture He was ever married.
I always took the bolded part of your post to simply mean there was nothing obviously divine about his appearance that would have made it conclusive that he was not of this earth.

As for there being no mention in scripture, that is easily explained by exclusion. Anything that supported the idea of a married jesus was simply not selected for canon.
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:23   #58
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Is Biblical and religious truth based on popularity of the dogma?
Didn't say it was.

You are changing the subject as is common.

The point I was addressing was whether the generality that Christians believe in a cheap grace was correct.
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:23   #59
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If you don't act like you're saved then you really aren't? Then that means salvation requires something more than grace. How can you know you're saved? It's impossible to lead a perfect New Testament life style, so everyone sins after they get saved. If you sin after being saved, were you not saved in the first place?

Most people try to say salvation by grace and once saved always saved are more sophisticated than it really is, but is't not. It's the only many of the people I know who consider themselves Christians could live their lives the way they do and still harbor delusions of going to Heaven.

The Catholics are way out ahead on the argument of how salvation works.
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:44   #60
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"proof" is a far too strong of a statement. Read up a little more on this "find". There is a lot of skepticism among religious and archaelogical experts that this is authentic. Also, this "document" (for lack of a better description) is said to be dated 200 years after Jesus' death. All it "proves" is that someone 200 years later stated that Jesus was married. If I write an article about George Washington stating he was homosexual and someone finds a scrap of it 1000 years from now, does that "prove" that George Washington was gay?

Ah, so Now you need evidence to prove that this was true? Lack of evidence hasn't stopped you guys before with most of bible, so why start now. Or is that just because it goes against what you believe Jesus to be?
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Old 09-21-2012, 10:25   #61
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Originally Posted by Tilley View Post
Funny you should mention that. Do something none of the other little resident zombies do here: research. Look back on the last 100 remarks from Animal Mother, and you will see the essence of your above quote as AM's typical answer in at least 85% of the time.


Scary...
I've read many of AM's posts here and He (I'm assuming He as I do not know AM personally) has handed you guys your arses over and over and over again. I see a LOT of you guys replying "Nah Uh!". I see a lot of AM presenting factual material that can be highly referenced and evidenced, and lot of you guys making bold claims and then bolting without the slightest bit of evidence to back it up except the ramblings of bronze aged desert scribes. That's what I see.

I do admire you guys for coming back over and over just to get your heads kicked in. If you're gonna be dumb you gotta be tough for sure.
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Old 09-21-2012, 10:34   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schabesbert View Post
I'll do what you're unable to ... provide some evidence.


In the US, the various protestant denominations’ populations are:


Baptist 38,662,005
Pentecostal 13,673,149
Lutheran 7,860,683
Presbyterian 5,844,855
Methodist 5,473,129
Anglican 2,323,100
Adventist 2,203,600
Holiness 2,123,602
Other 1,366,678


According to that same article, there are over 67million Catholics

In the list above, Baptists, Pentecostals (most), Presbyterians, Holiness (maybe), and “Other” (maybe) believe as you claim Christians believe.
See, for instance, various beliefs compared on “Can Salvation Be Lost?
… which is an even more stringent belief than you’re proposing doesn’t exist, since if salvation can be lost then it isn’t quite the easy salvation that you wrongly claim Christians believe.

That means that, being generous, 55,825,434 protestants support your theory, and 17,860,512 do not. However, add to that the 67million Catholics, and we show that you are wrong by quite a large margin: 84,860,512 to 55,825,434.

If you want to talk about Christians Worldwide, you are even more wrong.
What is required to be saved?

There are multiple passages that say things like "salvation isn't earned by deeds of the law but by grace." and "God gave his only son so that whoever believes in him shall have enternal life" or some such other nonsense.

Not by deeds, not by works, not by confession. But by believing and accepting the messiah.

Last edited by Glock36shooter; 09-21-2012 at 10:41..
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Old 09-21-2012, 10:36   #63
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Originally Posted by Schabesbert View Post
Didn't say it was.

You are changing the subject as is common.
I remember a story about a pot calling a kettle something.

Quote:
The point I was addressing was whether the generality that Christians believe in a cheap grace was correct.
You're the only one using the term Cheap Grace.
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Old 09-21-2012, 14:04   #64
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
What is required to be saved?

There are multiple passages that say things like "salvation isn't earned by deeds of the law but by grace." and "God gave his only son so that whoever believes in him shall have enternal life" or some such other nonsense.

Not by deeds, not by works, not by confession. But by believing and accepting the messiah.
I'm glad that you're actually asking the question now, rather than assuming the answer, as you incorrectly had until now.

It's funny, but I see (as a general rule) militant atheists militating against fundamentalist arguments. Militant atheists are fundies at heart.

Now, maybe if you look at what is actually meant, rather than the simplistic (and wrong) view put forth by fundies, you would actually know what you're arguing against.

The only thing worse than beating a dead horse ...

is beating the WRONG dead horse.
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Old 09-21-2012, 14:11   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
I remember a story about a pot calling a kettle something.
You're probably remembering something that was used to describe your tendencies.

Quote:
You're the only one using the term Cheap Grace.
It could be because I'm the only one using precise, concise, and accurate terms.
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Old 09-21-2012, 14:56   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schabesbert View Post
I'm glad that you're actually asking the question now, rather than assuming the answer, as you incorrectly had until now.

It's funny, but I see (as a general rule) militant atheists militating against fundamentalist arguments. Militant atheists are fundies at heart.

Now, maybe if you look at what is actually meant, rather than the simplistic (and wrong) view put forth by fundies, you would actually know what you're arguing against.

The only thing worse than beating a dead horse ...

is beating the WRONG dead horse.
Are you going to answer the question or not?
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Old 09-22-2012, 07:05   #67
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Proof Jesus was married?

He willingly allowed himself to be put to death by crucifiction.

That's proof enough for me.

What, you need a marriage license????

Randy
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Old 09-22-2012, 11:36   #68
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He willingly allowed himself to be put to death by crucifiction.
Willingly? Once they caught him he didn't have much of a choice. He might have faced it bravely... no one will ever really know since we aren't even 100% sure the Christ Character ever even existed. Most likely Christ is a legend (Like Krishna or Mithras) that got mixed in with an actual street preacher that was a political trouble maker at the time and was crucified for it. Which isn't all that special. They crucified rapists and murders too. Did they die for our sins too?

Quote:
That's proof enough for me.
Then your standard for proof is highly weak. By your standard if a rapist or murderer willingly allowed themselves to be crucified for your sins... they're god too.

Quote:
What, you need a marriage license????

Randy
Is that a gay joke? Are you that guy?
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Old 09-22-2012, 11:37   #69
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Originally Posted by Schabesbert View Post
I'm glad that you're actually asking the question now, rather than assuming the answer, as you incorrectly had until now.

It's funny, but I see (as a general rule) militant atheists militating against fundamentalist arguments. Militant atheists are fundies at heart.

Now, maybe if you look at what is actually meant, rather than the simplistic (and wrong) view put forth by fundies, you would actually know what you're arguing against.

The only thing worse than beating a dead horse ...

is beating the WRONG dead horse.
Quote:
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Are you going to answer the question or not?
Are you going to answer the question or not?
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Old 09-22-2012, 12:41   #70
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
Willingly? Once they caught him he didn't have much of a choice. He might have faced it bravely... no one will ever really know since we aren't even 100% sure the Christ Character ever even existed. Most likely Christ is a legend (Like Krishna or Mithras) that got mixed in with an actual street preacher that was a political trouble maker at the time and was crucified for it. Which isn't all that special. They crucified rapists and murders too. Did they die for our sins too?



Then your standard for proof is highly weak. By your standard if a rapist or murderer willingly allowed themselves to be crucified for your sins... they're god too.



Is that a gay joke? Are you that guy?
Are you an idiot?

The thread is about "Proof Jesus was married?".

Try reading the response with, you know, the actual topic in mind and get back to me.

Randy

Last edited by steveksux; 09-22-2012 at 12:42..
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Old 09-22-2012, 12:50   #71
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Originally Posted by Glock36shooter View Post
Willingly? Once they caught him he didn't have much of a choice. He might have faced it bravely... no one will ever really know since we aren't even 100% sure the Christ Character ever even existed. Most likely Christ is a legend (Like Krishna or Mithras) that got mixed in with an actual street preacher that was a political trouble maker at the time and was crucified for it. Which isn't all that special. They crucified rapists and murders too. Did they die for our sins too?
John 12:20-33, "
Jesus Predicts His Death

20 Now there were some Greeks among those who went up to worship at the festival. 21 They came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida in Galilee, with a request. “Sir,” they said, “we would like to see Jesus.” 22 Philip went to tell Andrew; Andrew and Philip in turn told Jesus.

23 Jesus replied, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. 24 Very truly I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. 25 Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 26 Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.

27 Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour.28 Father, glorify your name!”
Then a voice came from heaven, “I have glorified it, and will glorify it again.” 29 The crowd that was there and heard it said it had thundered; others said an angel had spoken to him.

30 Jesus said, “This voice was for your benefit, not mine. 31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. 32 And I, when I am lifted up[g] from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” 33 He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die."

Mark 8:31-38, "
31 He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again. 32 He spoke plainly about this, and Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him.

33 But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter. “Get behind me, Satan!” he said. “You do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

34 The crowd spoke up, “We have heard from the Law that the Messiah will remain forever, so how can you say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’? Who is this ‘Son of Man’?”

35 Then Jesus told them, “You are going to have the light just a little while longer. Walk while you have the light, before darkness overtakes you. Whoever walks in the dark does not know where they are going.36 Believe in the light while you have the light, so that you may become children of light.” When he had finished speaking, Jesus left and hid himself from them."

Mark 15:33-40, " At noon, darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon. 34 And at three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).[b]
35 When some of those standing near heard this, they said, “Listen, he’s calling Elijah.”

36 Someone ran, filled a sponge with wine vinegar, put it on a staff, and offered it to Jesus to drink. “Now leave him alone. Let’s see if Elijah comes to take him down,” he said.

37 With a loud cry, Jesus breathed his last.

38 The curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. 39 And when the centurion, who stood there in front of Jesus, saw how he died,[c] he said, “Surely this man was the Son of God!”

40 Some women were watching from a distance. Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joseph,[d] and Salome. 41 In Galilee these women had followed him and cared for his needs. Many other women who had come up with him to Jerusalem were also there."

Jesus died because he was crushed by my sins, your sins, everyone's sins, and was put out from the presence of God.

He died the Atheist's death.
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Old 09-22-2012, 13:35   #72
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Are you an idiot?

The thread is about "Proof Jesus was married?".

Try reading the response with, you know, the actual topic in mind and get back to me.

Randy
How is him being crucified one way or the other proof of marriage?
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Old 09-22-2012, 13:42   #73
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John 12:20-33, "
Jesus Predicts His Death

20 Now there were some Greeks among those who went up to worship at the festival. 21 They came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida in Galilee, with a request. “Sir,” they said, “we would like to see Jesus.” 22 Philip went to tell Andrew; Andrew and Philip in turn told Jesus.

23 Jesus replied, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. 24 Very truly I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. 25 Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 26 Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.

27 Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour.28 Father, glorify your name!”
Then a voice came from heaven, “I have glorified it, and will glorify it again.” 29 The crowd that was there and heard it said it had thundered; others said an angel had spoken to him.

30 Jesus said, “This voice was for your benefit, not mine. 31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. 32 And I, when I am lifted up[g] from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” 33 He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die."

Mark 8:31-38, "
31 He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again. 32 He spoke plainly about this, and Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him.

33 But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter. “Get behind me, Satan!” he said. “You do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

34 The crowd spoke up, “We have heard from the Law that the Messiah will remain forever, so how can you say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’? Who is this ‘Son of Man’?”

35 Then Jesus told them, “You are going to have the light just a little while longer. Walk while you have the light, before darkness overtakes you. Whoever walks in the dark does not know where they are going.36 Believe in the light while you have the light, so that you may become children of light.” When he had finished speaking, Jesus left and hid himself from them."

Mark 15:33-40, " At noon, darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon. 34 And at three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).[b]
35 When some of those standing near heard this, they said, “Listen, he’s calling Elijah.”

36 Someone ran, filled a sponge with wine vinegar, put it on a staff, and offered it to Jesus to drink. “Now leave him alone. Let’s see if Elijah comes to take him down,” he said.

37 With a loud cry, Jesus breathed his last.

38 The curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. 39 And when the centurion, who stood there in front of Jesus, saw how he died,[c] he said, “Surely this man was the Son of God!”

40 Some women were watching from a distance. Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joseph,[d] and Salome. 41 In Galilee these women had followed him and cared for his needs. Many other women who had come up with him to Jerusalem were also there."

Jesus died because he was crushed by my sins, your sins, everyone's sins, and was put out from the presence of God.

He died the Atheist's death.
So says the Bible, which we know to be in many cases inaccurate. It's just a story book. Bible verses aren't proof of anything by themselves. The bible also says the Christ character walked on water and could raise the dead. Doesn't mean it's so. You'll have to do a little better than PROOF from your story book. I am aware of what the Bible says. What I'm wanting to know is what really happened.
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Old 09-22-2012, 15:16   #74
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So says the Bible, which we know to be in many cases inaccurate. It's just a story book. Bible verses aren't proof of anything by themselves. The bible also says the Christ character walked on water and could raise the dead. Doesn't mean it's so. You'll have to do a little better than PROOF from your story book. I am aware of what the Bible says. What I'm wanting to know is what really happened.
It happened as it says it happened. Either you accept it or you don't Jesus has been proven to be an actual historical figure through other Non-Christian Historians. The bible has been proven accurate time and time again through independant histories of the peoples it has encountered and through archaeology. It has a solid basis there. Whether you then accept its metaphysical claims based upon that solid foundation is ultimately your decision.

But, if you are looking for personal peace, assurance, hope and love, you are looking in the right book at the right God.
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Old 09-22-2012, 15:17   #75
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How is him being crucified one way or the other proof of marriage?
Apparently, he has an unhappy marital life and is making a bizarre analogy.
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