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Old 09-20-2012, 14:03   #41
bowtie454
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Originally Posted by Animal Mother View Post
Are we discarding everything written after Jesus' death? Because that doesn't leave a whole lot to work with.
"after Jesus' death" is a pretty large time span. My point is that this is a single, uncorroborated document written over 100 years after anyone who ever lived during Jesus' lifetime had died. On its own, it is "proof" of nothing.
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Old 09-20-2012, 14:28   #42
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So nothing to offer other than "You don't know!". LOL. I accept you're surrender. Run along now.
What I've said is that you're wrong, and that you're determined to stay that way, reason and facts notwithstanding. You want to consider that a surrender, then feel free. Stay in your blissful (i.e., ignorance is bliss) state if you find it necessary for your mental well-being.
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Old 09-20-2012, 14:48   #43
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What I've said is that you're wrong, and that you're determined to stay that way, reason and facts notwithstanding. You want to consider that a surrender, then feel free. Stay in your blissful (i.e., ignorance is bliss) state if you find it necessary for your mental well-being.
Saying I'm wrong proves nothing. In fact it is tantamount to sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming la la la la la la la. If you have something to offer up please do. Otherwise your childish... "Nah Uh" is noted and rejected.

I have to say that you and that green manischewitz guy are the two hardest people with whom to have a discussion I've met so far in here. You just proclaim yourselves to be correct and offer up very little to nothing in evidence of it. And you both seem to prefer the "I know you are but what am I?" approach.

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Old 09-20-2012, 15:47   #44
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Saying I'm wrong proves nothing. In fact it is tantamount to sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming la la la la la la la. If you have something to offer up please do. Otherwise your childish... "Nah Uh" is noted and rejected.
Funny you should mention that. Do something none of the other little resident zombies do here: research. Look back on the last 100 remarks from Animal Mother, and you will see the essence of your above quote as AM's typical answer in at least 85% of the time.


Scary...
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Old 09-20-2012, 17:32   #45
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Saying I'm wrong proves nothing. In fact it is tantamount to sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming la la la la la la la. If you have something to offer up please do. Otherwise your childish... "Nah Uh" is noted and rejected.
Actually, it proves at least as much as your assertion.
You asserted something without any evidence to back it up. I'm saying that you're wrong. Please provide some evidence that you are correct.

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I have to say that you and that green manischewitz guy are the two hardest people with whom to have a discussion I've met so far in here.
Yeah, I guess you're used to discussing things in an echo chamber. When your assertions are challenged, you have a difficult time. Noted.
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Old 09-20-2012, 18:06   #46
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I'll do what you're unable to ... provide some evidence.


In the US, the various protestant denominations’ populations are:


Baptist 38,662,005
Pentecostal 13,673,149
Lutheran 7,860,683
Presbyterian 5,844,855
Methodist 5,473,129
Anglican 2,323,100
Adventist 2,203,600
Holiness 2,123,602
Other 1,366,678


According to that same article, there are over 67million Catholics

In the list above, Baptists, Pentecostals (most), Presbyterians, Holiness (maybe), and “Other” (maybe) believe as you claim Christians believe.
See, for instance, various beliefs compared on “Can Salvation Be Lost?
… which is an even more stringent belief than you’re proposing doesn’t exist, since if salvation can be lost then it isn’t quite the easy salvation that you wrongly claim Christians believe.

That means that, being generous, 55,825,434 protestants support your theory, and 17,860,512 do not. However, add to that the 67million Catholics, and we show that you are wrong by quite a large margin: 84,860,512 to 55,825,434.

If you want to talk about Christians Worldwide, you are even more wrong.
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Old 09-20-2012, 22:12   #47
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Originally Posted by bowtie454 View Post
"after Jesus' death" is a pretty large time span.
About 2000 years at this point.
Quote:
My point is that this is a single, uncorroborated document written over 100 years after anyone who ever lived during Jesus' lifetime had died. On its own, it is "proof" of nothing.
My point is that we don't have any examples of any works about Jesus that are older than this fragment, so if you object to it shouldn't you also object to all the other works?
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Old 09-20-2012, 22:13   #48
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Originally Posted by Schabesbert View Post
I'll do what you're unable to ... provide some evidence.


In the US, the various protestant denominations’ populations are:


Baptist 38,662,005
Pentecostal 13,673,149
Lutheran 7,860,683
Presbyterian 5,844,855
Methodist 5,473,129
Anglican 2,323,100
Adventist 2,203,600
Holiness 2,123,602
Other 1,366,678


According to that same article, there are over 67million Catholics

In the list above, Baptists, Pentecostals (most), Presbyterians, Holiness (maybe), and “Other” (maybe) believe as you claim Christians believe.
See, for instance, various beliefs compared on “Can Salvation Be Lost?
… which is an even more stringent belief than you’re proposing doesn’t exist, since if salvation can be lost then it isn’t quite the easy salvation that you wrongly claim Christians believe.

That means that, being generous, 55,825,434 protestants support your theory, and 17,860,512 do not. However, add to that the 67million Catholics, and we show that you are wrong by quite a large margin: 84,860,512 to 55,825,434.

If you want to talk about Christians Worldwide, you are even more wrong.
Is Biblical and religious truth based on popularity of the dogma?
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Old 09-20-2012, 22:33   #49
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Originally Posted by bowtie454 View Post
"after Jesus' death" is a pretty large time span. My point is that this is a single, uncorroborated document written over 100 years after anyone who ever lived during Jesus' lifetime had died. On its own, it is "proof" of nothing.
Yeah, but there is quite a bit in the new testament written later than that which is considered cannon.
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Old 09-20-2012, 22:57   #50
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Funny you should mention that. Do something none of the other little resident zombies do here: research. Look back on the last 100 remarks from Animal Mother, and you will see the essence of your above quote as AM's typical answer in at least 85% of the time.


Scary...
Also, False.
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Old 09-20-2012, 23:48   #51
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See! See! He did it again!
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Also, False.
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Old 09-21-2012, 00:17   #52
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Also, False.
No, it isn't.


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Old 09-21-2012, 00:28   #53
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See! See! He did it again!
I could have challenged you to actually produce evidence for your claim, but we all know how difficult you find it to do things like that. Given your obviously fragile mental condition, it just didn't seem right to press you that way.
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Old 09-21-2012, 05:18   #54
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Thank you for keeping us safe.
You're welcome.
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Old 09-21-2012, 05:52   #55
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Edit: Post moved to Tilley's sarcastic "apology" thread as it was more about his total lack of contribution in this forum.
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Old 09-21-2012, 05:54   #56
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Isaiah 53:1-3, "Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem."


So, from a worldly perspective Jesus was physically unatractive, and there is no mention whatsoever in scripture He was ever married.

Further, He would have nothing to offer a family.

Matthew 8:18-22, "When Jesus saw the crowd around him, he gave orders to cross to the other side of the lake. 19 Then a teacher of the law came to him and said, “Teacher, I will follow you wherever you go.”
20 Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”

21 Another disciple said to him, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”

22 But Jesus told him, “Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead.”
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Old 09-21-2012, 06:15   #57
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So, from a worldly perspective Jesus was physically unatractive, and there is no mention whatsoever in scripture He was ever married.
I always took the bolded part of your post to simply mean there was nothing obviously divine about his appearance that would have made it conclusive that he was not of this earth.

As for there being no mention in scripture, that is easily explained by exclusion. Anything that supported the idea of a married jesus was simply not selected for canon.
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:23   #58
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Is Biblical and religious truth based on popularity of the dogma?
Didn't say it was.

You are changing the subject as is common.

The point I was addressing was whether the generality that Christians believe in a cheap grace was correct.
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:23   #59
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If you don't act like you're saved then you really aren't? Then that means salvation requires something more than grace. How can you know you're saved? It's impossible to lead a perfect New Testament life style, so everyone sins after they get saved. If you sin after being saved, were you not saved in the first place?

Most people try to say salvation by grace and once saved always saved are more sophisticated than it really is, but is't not. It's the only many of the people I know who consider themselves Christians could live their lives the way they do and still harbor delusions of going to Heaven.

The Catholics are way out ahead on the argument of how salvation works.
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:44   #60
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"proof" is a far too strong of a statement. Read up a little more on this "find". There is a lot of skepticism among religious and archaelogical experts that this is authentic. Also, this "document" (for lack of a better description) is said to be dated 200 years after Jesus' death. All it "proves" is that someone 200 years later stated that Jesus was married. If I write an article about George Washington stating he was homosexual and someone finds a scrap of it 1000 years from now, does that "prove" that George Washington was gay?

Ah, so Now you need evidence to prove that this was true? Lack of evidence hasn't stopped you guys before with most of bible, so why start now. Or is that just because it goes against what you believe Jesus to be?
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