[jthrelf]

Hello,

I live in PA but spend some weekends at my parents' house back in NJ. I am having a very difficult time getting a straight answer regarding having firearms in NJ without a NJ Firearms ID card.

I know that regardless of anything else, guns locked in trunk, separate ammo. That's a given. My question is: can I transport through NJ going directly to my parents' house (which is not my address)? NJ State police say you can transport through NJ as long as the starting and ending point is legal.

Or do you, at any time besides just traveling through, need a NJ firearms card to possess a firearms locked in your trunk?

Also I am asking because I would like to transport my dad's .22 rifle back to PA, from NJ.

Any help is appreciated.

EDIT- While we're at it, what about hollow points given the same situations?

[bac1023]

I don't think you can have it with you at all, but I'm not 100% certain.

I know I don't.

[jph02]

Did you check handgunlaw.us? From there, you can follow the link to the actual laws and administrative code for specific details. Otherwise ask a lawyer if you really want to know.

It seems pretty clear to me hollowpoints are a definite no-no. I'd not take a pistol into NJ; they don't recognize any other state's permit. Going to your parents in NJ is not transiting the state, it's stopping there, so no Federal transport exemption. I think you'd be ok taking a .22 rifle home from your parents. YMMV

[banger]

AND.....

Exactly WHY would the New Jersey State Police lie to you?

Let me get this straight....

You don't trust the State Police....But...you are willing to accept an answer from the Internet.

WOW!

[m2hmghb]

I would suggest you get a firearms ID card just to CYA. I honestly cannot tell you for certain, because the destination isn't via the state it is the state. The law that allows transport through states does not pre-empt the law of the state that is the destination. What I mean is that if you go to NY state the guns have to meet their criteria and so on, but if you pass through NY state going elsewhere they don't.

[bac1023]

Originally Posted by m2hmghb

I would suggest you get a firearms ID card just to CYA.

[Cambo]

Originally Posted by m2hmghb

I would suggest you get a firearms ID card just to CYA. I honestly cannot tell you for certain, because the destination isn't via the state it is the state. The law that allows transport through states does not pre-empt the law of the state that is the destination. What I mean is that if you go to NY state the guns have to meet their criteria and so on, but if you pass through NY state going elsewhere they don't.

Nailed it!

[jthrelf]

Originally Posted by banger

AND.....

Exactly WHY would the New Jersey State Police lie to you?

Let me get this straight....

You don't trust the State Police....But...you are willing to accept an answer from the Internet.

WOW!

You clearly did not read my post correctly. The state police says if the start and end destination is legal, then you are good to go. Clearly my start in PA is fine, but the destination is NJ which may or may not be legal (which is what im asking)..... make sure you understand something before jumping to a conclusion.

see below \/

Originally Posted by m2hmghb

I would suggest you get a firearms ID card just to CYA. I honestly cannot tell you for certain, because the destination isn't via the state it is the state. The law that allows transport through states does not pre-empt the law of the state that is the destination. What I mean is that if you go to NY state the guns have to meet their criteria and so on, but if you pass through NY state going elsewhere they don't.

Do you happen to know if I would be able to get a NJ ID card without being a resident?

[WiskyT]

Originally Posted by jthrelf

Do you happen to know if I would be able to get a NJ ID card without being a resident?

You can't. The ID card has to be issued by the Chief of the town you live in. You don't live in a town in NJ, so you can't be issued one.

As for having a gun in NJ when you are not a resident, I don't know the answer. Certainly people bring them in as I have shot matches in NJ that had PA residents shooting in them. There are several GSSF matches in the NY/NJ/PA areas and you will see the same people shooting in all of them.

[ithaca_deerslayer]

Originally Posted by WiskyT

You can't. The ID card has to be issued by the Chief of the town you live in. You don't live in a town in NJ, so you can't be issued one.

As for having a gun in NJ when you are not a resident, I don't know the answer. Certainly people bring them in as I have shot matches in NJ that had PA residents shooting in them. There are several GSSF matches in the NY/NJ/PA areas and you will see the same people shooting in all of them.

Don't know about NJ, but the reason you can bring a handgun to NYS and shoot a match is because NYS law specifically says you can. The law actually specifies the match criteria and how long you can be here before and after.

[ak103k]

I used to shoot in matches in NJ once ot twice a month from the 80's into the early 2000's. Never had any troubles. I didnt go looking for any either. I always kept my guns (rifles and handguns) in locked cases out of sight, ammo separate, and all related stuff, like targets, etc, out of sight. I also did my best not to draw attention to myself.

I did have a slam fire in a match and had to go to the hospital to get some stitches. That was a treat. They wanted to call the cops for a gun shot wound, which it wasnt. Took a little convincing that a gun blowing up wasnt the same, but they figured it out, and never called anyone.

I have friends and family who live in NJ. Some have lived there their whole life. They all have "I heard" stories, but none have any other than that. I think there are so many misconceptions and so much misinformation (deliberate or otherwise) floating around, its hard to really know whats real and what isnt anymore.

Personally, I would call the local State Police barracks and ask to talk to someone directly, and make an appointment to meet with someone face to face and get your answers that way. That way, you have a name and face to go with it, and can cut through the BS.

Over the years, Ive heard all sorts of horror stories about the ATF, and what they do. Ive dealt with them quite a few times in person, and they were always very professional, courteous, and helpful, even if they were a little weird about having the front doors locked when I tried to get in.

Skip all the hype, and do your own homework, Ill bet its not as scary as youve been led to believe.

[m2hmghb]

Originally Posted by WiskyT

You can't. The ID card has to be issued by the Chief of the town you live in. You don't live in a town in NJ, so you can't be issued one.

As for having a gun in NJ when you are not a resident, I don't know the answer. Certainly people bring them in as I have shot matches in NJ that had PA residents shooting in them. There are several GSSF matches in the NY/NJ/PA areas and you will see the same people shooting in all of them.

You're wrong Whisky. The state police also issue them. The exact quote from the State Police's website:

You must apply at your local police department. If you do not have a local police department or you are an out of state resident, you must apply at the nearest New Jersey State Police station (excluding toll roads, stations on the New Jersey Turnpike, Garden State Parkway, and Atlantic City Expressway)


Edit to add link: http://www.njsp.org/faq.html

[WiskyT]

Originally Posted by m2hmghb

You're wrong Whisky. The state police also issue them. The exact quote from the State Police's website:

You must apply at your local police department. If you do not have a local police department or you are an out of state resident, you must apply at the nearest New Jersey State Police station (excluding toll roads, stations on the New Jersey Turnpike, Garden State Parkway, and Atlantic City Expressway)


Edit to add link: http://www.njsp.org/faq.html

That's a new one on me. It'll probably cost him over $100.00 to get one and I've seen them take over a year to bother issuing them. The NJSP might be better about it. He'd probably be the first person in history to have a NJ yellow card and not live in NJ.

[WiskyT]

Originally Posted by ak103k

I used to shoot in matches in NJ once ot twice a month from the 80's into the early 2000's. Never had any troubles. I didnt go looking for any either. I always kept my guns (rifles and handguns) in locked cases out of sight, ammo separate, and all related stuff, like targets, etc, out of sight. I also did my best not to draw attention to myself.

I did have a slam fire in a match and had to go to the hospital to get some stitches. That was a treat. They wanted to call the cops for a gun shot wound, which it wasnt. Took a little convincing that a gun blowing up wasnt the same, but they figured it out, and never called anyone.

I have friends and family who live in NJ. Some have lived there their whole life. They all have "I heard" stories, but none have any other than that. I think there are so many misconceptions and so much misinformation (deliberate or otherwise) floating around, its hard to really know whats real and what isnt anymore.

Personally, I would call the local State Police barracks and ask to talk to someone directly, and make an appointment to meet with someone face to face and get your answers that way. That way, you have a name and face to go with it, and can cut through the BS.

Over the years, Ive heard all sorts of horror stories about the ATF, and what they do. Ive dealt with them quite a few times in person, and they were always very professional, courteous, and helpful, even if they were a little weird about having the front doors locked when I tried to get in.

Skip all the hype, and do your own homework, Ill bet its not as scary as youve been led to believe.

Talking is worthles. The Trooper could tell him something with the best of intentions and if he gets jammed up it won't be wortha thing. He needs something in writing. He either needs an opinion from the AG's office or the text from a statute that protects him. Either may be available on line.

Also, some of those horror stories are true. There was a guy recently who got convicted. He had guns in his trunk. It was a little screwy, and of course the papers don't give any useful details, just the controversy, but he was a Colorado resident and lived at his parents in NJ. He got into some kind of argument with them and was moving his stuff to a different location. He got pulled over and arrested for having the guns in his car with his stuff. He got convicted and has been fighting it form a jail cell. It's very similar to the OP, legal guns in the trunk, legal reason (moving his stuff) and he's locked up. I'll see if I can find it online later today.

[ak103k]

Talking is worthles. The Trooper could tell him something with the best of intentions and if he gets jammed up it won't be wortha thing. He needs something in writing. He either needs an opinion from the AG's office or the text from a statute that protects him. Either may be available on line.

Ive found you get a lot more cooperation and information if you make an appointment, and go in and talk to someone face to face and not just by phone. You also have a record of it, and a name to go along with it, not just, "Well, I called (or looked it up on the internet) and talked to so and so who said this..."

If you feel better talking to someone in the AG's office, go for it. If you want something in writing, ask for it.

Its amazing how many people are afraid of the people who work for them.

Also, some of those horror stories are true. There was a guy recently who got convicted. He had guns in his trunk. It was a little screwy, and of course the papers don't give any useful details, just the controversy, but he was a Colorado resident and lived at his parents in NJ. He got into some kind of argument with them and was moving his stuff to a different location. He got pulled over and arrested for having the guns in his car with his stuff. He got convicted and has been fighting it form a jail cell. It's very similar to the OP, legal guns in the trunk, legal reason (moving his stuff) and he's locked up. I'll see if I can find it online later today.

So was it the guns that got him arrested, or something else? This is what I mean about third party "I heards" and horror stories. Ive been hearing them for years. These things end up having a life of their own before to long.

Looking up the statutes on the net if they are available is a good place to start. If you are capable of understanding and interpreting them, youre a step ahead, if you have questions, print them out and bring them along, and go ask a lawyer, and/or contact someone who enforces them directly, and get an answer.

[Arc Angel]

Originally Posted by jthrelf

Hello, I live in PA but spend some weekends at my parents' house back in NJ. I am having a very difficult time getting a straight answer regarding having firearms in NJ without a NJ Firearms ID card.

I know that regardless of anything else, guns locked in trunk, separate ammo. That's a given. My question is: Can I transport through NJ going directly to my parents' house (which is not my address)? NJ State police say you can transport through NJ as long as the starting and ending point is legal.

Or do you, at any time besides just traveling through, need a NJ firearms card to possess a firearms locked in your trunk? Also I am asking because I would like to transport my dad's .22 rifle back to PA, from NJ. Any help is appreciated.

EDIT- While we're at it, what about hollow points given the same situations?

THIS is a very good question; one that I've had to consider on a number of past occasions. Here's a reply I wrote on another gun forum all the way back in 2006, and before one of my idiot gun-toting neighbors banned me from the site for daring to disagree with his published position on open carry.

(My arguments were obviously too eloquent for his small mind to either absorb or adequately reply to; so, because he was a site moderator, he solved his problem by simply locking me out of the site - Brave of him; wasn't it!)

To the best of my knowledge only NJ residents who own firearms need to have a state-issued, 'FOID'.*

Based on the years I lived in NJ the answer to your question is, 'Yes'. However, you have to transport your firearm in the state's approved manner. Here's what I remember: The gun has to be unloaded and retained in a locked or securely tied case that is not readily available to the occupant(s) of the vehicle. Ammunition has to be separately stored, again, in another secure package. (You may NOT transport loaded magazines.)

It gets dicey where certain firearms and components are concerned. NJ does not allow any magazine over 15 round capacity; and many, 'assault rifles' are illegal to possess in NJ.

You may only transport a firearm under specific conditions which mainly include either to or from a gunsmith or shooting range. I do not believe, 'I'm going to a friend's house; and I want to show him my gun.' or, 'Because I wanted to keep my gun with me.' are acceptable legal excuses.

Based on one case that I am familiar with, it is allowed to transport a firearm through the state. This is good to know if you live in PA and must use a part of NJ to complete your trip. What kind of firearm you transport through the state, and whether or not you stop in NJ while transporting a certain type of firearm may be another story, though.

Hollow points are legal to own and use in NJ for everything except the commission of, 'a crime'. The problem is exactly, 'how' do you define a crime? Sometimes shooting at a protagonist may constitute a crime; consequently, it's not a good idea to use HP's for self-defense in NJ because it could bring an additional charge.

That's, pretty much, what I remember about using and transporting firearms in my old home state.

http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/159...hout-foid.html

ADDED: *In recent years this requirement appears to have been modified to include out-of-state residents who frequently transport firearms into (and presumably through) New Jersey. Applications for NJ/FOID cards can now be made to the NJSP.

Whenever someone from a neighboring state transports a firearm into New Jersey he becomes subject to a plethora of ambiguous and often conflicting state laws. For instance, if you’re passing through New Jersey then the Federal, Firearms Owners Protection Act’s, ‘Safe Passage’ provision applies; but NOT if your destination, itself, is inside the state of New Jersey. Once you’re in New Jersey, without an NJ/FOID card, you cannot legally purchase ammunition; and (Trust me on this!) the possession of hollow point bullets, although technically legal, can morph into a criminal act THE MOMENT YOU BREAK ANY NJ STATE LAW!

Technically, ‘going to your parents’ home’ in New Jersey does NOT constitute either legal possession, or transportation of a firearm in accord with NJ state law. Strictly speaking, and according to the letter of the law, New Jersey does NOT want your damned Pennsylvania firearm(s) in their state. Again, there are exceptions; and I’ve participated in several discussions on attendance at a New Jersey firearm competition with your out-of-state firearm(s) and ammunition.

Common problems included simple acts like: stopping to eat, or even fueling up while in possession of an out-of-state firearm, staying overnight at a NJ hotel (This includes your parents' house!) with an out-of-state firearm(s) or ammunition in either your room or vehicle. Which brings up the interesting problem about what you do if your auto breaks down, has to go into a repair facility, or you are involved in a serious accident. (EMT’s are required to report the presence of a gun in a vehicle to the police.)

I suggest you ignore the Internet advice just given to you on accepting the veracity and reliability of information given to you by the New Jersey State Police. The function of the NJSP is NOT to give you legal advice. They exist to enforce NJ state laws; and that’s it! I am aware of several, ‘gun horror stories’ that have occurred with New Jersey police agencies, and inside NJ state courts that I do not want to recall, now.

Suffice it to say that New Jersey court judges are allowed to use a great deal of legal latitude in adjudicating firearm matters and usage. So much so, in fact, that I personally won’t even: touch, borrow, or even pick up a firearm while I’m at a New Jersey shooting range. (And, I’ve had several offers!) I will only watch; and that’s it!

[m2hmghb]

Evan Nappen who is a gun rights lawyer in NJ advises that people out of state who come to NJ to compete should get an FID card just to cover themselves.

[diamondd2]

No. You do not need an NJ FID card. What the state police told you is true. Your ending destination is legal for you. The only thing you would need an NJ FID card for would be to purchase handgun ammo in NJ. Hollow Point ammo is legal to transport, posses, shoot at a range, and for self defense in NJ.

I live in NJ. But you could get much more detailed info from njgunforums.com. Those guys love to talk NJ gun laws.


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[WiskyT]

Originally Posted by ak103k

Ive found you get a lot more cooperation and information if you make an appointment, and go in and talk to someone face to face and not just by phone. You also have a record of it, and a name to go along with it, not just, "Well, I called (or looked it up on the internet) and talked to so and so who said this..."

If you feel better talking to someone in the AG's office, go for it. If you want something in writing, ask for it.

Its amazing how many people are afraid of the people who work for them.


So was it the guns that got him arrested, or something else? This is what I mean about third party "I heards" and horror stories. Ive been hearing them for years. These things end up having a life of their own before to long.

Looking up the statutes on the net if they are available is a good place to start. If you are capable of understanding and interpreting them, youre a step ahead, if you have questions, print them out and bring them along, and go ask a lawyer, and/or contact someone who enforces them directly, and get an answer.

If you think that a cop on the side of the road is going to take your word for it that Trooper Doe told you it was okay to have a gun in your car, you need to check your head.

Here is a third person tale of absolute misery and imprisonment. It's third party as you say. Plane crashes, lung cancer, and terrorist attacks are third person too since they didn't kill you, so they must not be worth paying attention to either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Aitken

[diamondd2]

Don't let people instill fear into you about this. Again, I live in NJ. It's not that bad. I have an FID card, but it is not required to transport a handgun in NJ. As long as you are not a prohibited persons, you legally own your guns, and are transporting in accordance to the law, you have nothing to fear.

Again, go to njgunforums.com. These are NJ gun enthusiasts that know the laws well. They will give you much greater detail and confidence to go to NJ.

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[WiskyT]

Originally Posted by diamondd2

Don't let people instill fear into you about this. Again, I live in NJ. It's not that bad. I have an FID card, but it is not required to transport a handgun in NJ. As long as you are not a prohibited persons, you legally own your guns, and are transporting in accordance to the law, you have nothing to fear.

Again, go to njgunforums.com. These are NJ gun enthusiasts that know the laws well. They will give you much greater detail and confidence to go to NJ.

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I agree. I lived in NJ most of my life, owned guns, and worked as a police officer. I never had a problem, knew anybody with a problem, and as a cop I know how difficult it is to get into someone's trunk.

But, there are some real horror stories and it would be a good idea to get a written opinion, or copy of the law, from a reliable source.

[ak103k]

If you think that a cop on the side of the road is going to take your word for it that Trooper Doe told you it was okay to have a gun in your car, you need to check your head.

I never said they would. I simply said to go talk to the people likely to give you a valid answer, or direct you to someone who can.

A copy of the answer in writing and/or the law isnt likely to keep you out of the can either, at least initially, as its not up to the cops to decide if its valid or not. It will give you and your lawyer better footing in court though.

Im simply saying to go to the source and get your answer. If you dont like what they say, get them to direct you to the next step up, until you get some satisfaction. From what Ive seen personaly, most people seem to think gun shop and internet "stories" hold more weight than asking the people who know. I with I had a nickle for every "expert" that told me what to expect when dealing with the ATF over things that scare most people. All I ever got, was a direct answer by someone who was professional and courteous. The experts never seemed to want to hear that though, as it didnt fit what they thought it should be. Fear sells, and I see its still selling very well.

[Arc Angel]

Originally Posted by diamondd2

Don't let people instill fear into you about this. Again, I live in NJ. It's not that bad. I have an FID card, but it is not required to transport a handgun in NJ. As long as you are not a prohibited persons, you legally own your guns, and are transporting in accordance to the law, you have nothing to fear.

Again, go to njgunforums.com. These are NJ gun enthusiasts that know the laws well. They will give you much greater detail and confidence to go to NJ.

Oh, yeah! Tell that to my former neighbor's 3 children, all of whom were older teenagers or young adults. They got stopped by an NJ State Trooper, admitted to having a 22 LR rifle in the trunk of their car, and stated they were on the way to a local sandpit to do some target shooting. When the trooper asked to see an NJ/FOID card (NOT an, 'FID' card) nobody had one; and the trooper promptly confiscated the rifle - A firearm that has, since, never been returned to the family.

You can talk all day long about New Jersey gun laws on the Internet, and the merits of whatever NJ firearms website; but, when you come right down to it, what the investigating officer thinks, and what the judge who is sure to back him up does, have nothing to do with Internet gun palaver.

Whenever I move between Pennsylvania, and New Jersey gun ranges, the differences I immediately become aware of are glaringly obvious: New Jersey gun owners have to be A LOT MORE CAREFUL and strictly follow a lot of nuisance firearm regulations than anything I'm used to in Pennsylvania.

Sure, an honest gun owner remains honest and law abiding on both sides of the Delaware; but, in general, New Jersey treats its resident firearm owner/users like crap.

Even though I'm a scion of a prominent New Jersey law enforcement (and education) family, I've been living in Pennsylvania for the past 15 years because I have no intention of submitting myself to the increasingly restrictive and irrational gun legislation that New Jersey's screwed up politicians have been passing over the past 20 years.

I suggest you stop telling the OP that he has nothing to worry about. For a fact: He, and his Pennsylvania firearms HAVE PLENTY TO WORRY ABOUT whenever he travels to New Jersey - Where, since we're on the subject, it's technically illegal for me to handle or shoot my brother-in-law's personal firearms while I'm in the state. (Check it out!)

[ak103k]

Where, since we're on the subject, it's technically illegal for me to handle or shoot my brother-in-law's personal firearms while I'm in the state. (Check it out!)

Since you brought it up, can you give us a cite in state law that shows that?

[Arc Angel]

Look it up for yourself.

(I got this information from a lengthy PAFOA discussion on what could go either right, or wrong for visiting Pennsylvania shooters at the 2007 IDPA National Championship Match which was held in New Jersey.)