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Old 09-18-2012, 22:41   #21
cyphertext
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Originally Posted by Atluu View Post
Even a 20" ? I don't want to spend $ on both an HD shotgun and a trap,skeet shotgun.
Many would say that you need three guns. HD, trap, and skeet are all different.

If you want a gun for HD as the primary role, and shooting clays is just for fun, an Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 with a couple of barrels is a good answer.


If you are wanting to shoot skeet and be truly competitive, you should be looking at a good over under. I agree that skeet can be shot with a pump, but the advantage does go to the o/u, followed by the autos.

Trap shotguns typically have longer barrels and a tighter choke than a gun set up for skeet or sporting clays. I use a field gun for all three games, as I am not looking to be super competitive and enjoy the clay games as a primer for bird season.
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Old 09-18-2012, 23:00   #22
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I recently tried my hand at clay shooting in a VERY informal outing with a few dozen guys from church. I used a Mossberg 500 with a 30" full choke barrel and also brought along my 20" cylinder bore HD just to compare. I couldn't tell if either gun had an edge over the other as it was my first ever experience. One guy who borrowed the 20 incher called it "sweet", so I guess he was impressed. It seemed that the shorter barrel was easier to swing and follow the targets, and I estimate I hit a third of the clays I shot at. As I said it was very informal and mostly just for fun, but if I do it again I think I'll use the short barrel. Hope this helps.
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Old 09-18-2012, 23:02   #23
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No and Yes....

No, choke pattern depends on the barrel / choke and ammo combination, not the model of the shotgun. You will see chokes labeled as full, modified, improved cylinder, skeet, etc, and these restrict the bore in specified measurements.

Yes, the pattern will be different between every shotgun, even those of the same model. You will need to pattern your shotgun with each choke and ammo.
Thanks, I barely shoot skeet/trap, maybe like once every 2 months. I will most likely end up getting an 870 police and buying a longer barrel. I have no knowledge of chokes, mind if you share some advice?
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Old 09-18-2012, 23:41   #24
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Here is a basic primer for understanding chokes. Barrels can come with a fixed choke or the ability to add a screw in choke.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/Media...spx?mediaid=20

I have a 1959 Wingmaster 870 that is my HD shotgun. The barrel has been cut to 18.5 inches, and is open cylinder and does not have the ability to add a choke.

My go to hunting and clay games gun is an old Beretta B-4 over and under that has fixed chokes. Top barrel is improved cylinder and bottom is modified. Newer o/u guns have the ability to take screw in chokes.

I also have a Remington 870 Wingmaster that will take screw in chokes. With that one, I can change from a skeet choke which is almost like open cylinder but it protects the threads, out to my super full choke for turkey hunting.

With each of these, I still need to pattern the shot with the ammo I am using. Different brands / types of shells will pattern differently out of the same barrel and choke. For example, Remington heavy dove 7.5s hold a denser pattern than Winchester Super X 7.5s at 30 yards out of my o/u.

Hope that helps.
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Old 09-18-2012, 23:47   #25
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Here is a basic primer for understanding chokes. Barrels can come with a fixed choke or the ability to add a screw in choke.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/Media...spx?mediaid=20

I have a 1959 Wingmaster 870 that is my HD shotgun. The barrel has been cut to 18.5 inches, and is open cylinder and does not have the ability to add a choke.

My go to hunting and clay games gun is an old Beretta B-4 over and under that has fixed chokes. Top barrel is improved cylinder and bottom is modified. Newer o/u guns have the ability to take screw in chokes.

I also have a Remington 870 Wingmaster that will take screw in chokes. With that one, I can change from a skeet choke which is almost like open cylinder but it protects the threads, out to my super full choke for turkey hunting.

With each of these, I still need to pattern the shot with the ammo I am using. Different brands / types of shells will pattern differently out of the same barrel and choke. For example, Remington heavy dove 7.5s hold a denser pattern than Winchester Super X 7.5s at 30 yards out of my o/u.

Hope that helps.
Thanks, I understand not all barrels have threads for a screw in choke. My plan is to get a longer barrel that can use screw in chokes. Are all barrels compatible with each shotgun? Or do I have to get a barrel that specifically made (in my situation) for a remington 870 police. Also are there any other shotguns like the 870? I don't really like the mossberg 500. I plan on putting a pistol grip on it also.
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Old 09-18-2012, 23:51   #26
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You'd be surprised what a Saiga can to to clays.
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Old 09-19-2012, 00:12   #27
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Hard to beat a Benelli as an all around shotgun. HD, hunting, trap/skeet etc. I have an M1 90 in 12 ga with 24" barrel.
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Old 09-19-2012, 00:21   #28
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Hard to beat a Benelli as an all around shotgun. HD, hunting, trap/skeet etc. I have an M1 90 in 12 ga with 24" barrel.
Wow beautiful gun.

Last edited by Atluu; 09-19-2012 at 00:37..
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Old 09-19-2012, 07:52   #29
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So you recommend a semi-auto shotgun for shooting skeet?
I have shot a Remington 1100 and a S&W Super Skeet and both worked well. I see a lot of people using sporting clays guns like the Benellis or Berettas but those are out of my price range. They work very well but they throw the hulls all over the place.

I know the gas guns are pretty fast but there is still a noticeable pause while the action cycles.

I prefer to shoot skeet with an O/U and even then, I wish they didn't have ejectors. Having just extractors would be adequate.

I have a Browning sporting clays gun (O/U) that shoots pretty well but I really don't like the gun. I have had several incantations of Brownings over the years and every one of them gave me a headache. So, I don't shoot 12 gauge any more...


I have a fairly old Remington 3200 (O/U) with 28 gauge tubes that I use these days. The gun is very heavy so follow-through isn't much of a problem. I really like shooting 28 gauge skeet!

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Old 09-19-2012, 07:53   #30
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Originally Posted by Atluu View Post
Thanks, I understand not all barrels have threads for a screw in choke. My plan is to get a longer barrel that can use screw in chokes. Are all barrels compatible with each shotgun? Or do I have to get a barrel that specifically made (in my situation) for a remington 870 police. Also are there any other shotguns like the 870? I don't really like the mossberg 500. I plan on putting a pistol grip on it also.
Most 870 barrels will be interchangeable. There is one type of Remington barrel, the special field (I think that is what it was called) that is not interchangeable. Other than that, an Express barrel will fit on a Wingmaster or a Police, and vice versa. Remington and Mossberg are the two main choices in a pump gun, especially for HD. Benelli also has the Nova line, and Ithaca is another choice. I'm not real familar with the last two, as I don't have either one. I have 870s and my sons jr. model Mossberg 500.
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:43   #31
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For skeet an O/U or semiauto is best. For trap it does not matter as a pump is more than fine. Something like a Remington Model 1100 will work just buy a short barrel for HD. One of my shotguns is a Rem 1100 Trap model which has the long ported vent rib barrel.
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:00   #32
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One of the problems with using for pumps and semiautos for trap is that they spit the hull over toward the next shooter. This is impolite! Right at the time they are getting ready to shoot, along comes a flying hull.

OK, there is a way to control that with the pump gun and there is a little metal shell retainer for the 1100s. Either will work great until you get to shooting doubles. You still wind up sending hulls over to your neighbor.

Sporting clays is one place where semiautos can be used without disturbing the next shooter and many of the best shooters are using them. But since sporting clays is all doubles, I don't think a pump gun would be the best choice.

I think if I had to do HD and skeet with one gun, I would get an 1100 with two barrels. If I was trying to do it with the 870, I would be an upgraded version suitable for skeet and then install a downgraded barrel. I don't recall ever dealing with an extended shell tube on an 1100 - I might give that a pass. I don't see any advantage in showing up at a skeet field with a tactical shotgun finish.

Our range won't allow the use of tactical shotguns.

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Old 09-19-2012, 14:56   #33
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Yeah I have one of those little clip on catchers for my 1100. If all he wanted to shoot was trap and HD I would say hands down go with a pump. For skeet I would prefer an O/U vs a semi no doubt but for what he wants to do the semi seems to be the best fit because an O/U obviously only holds 2 rounds. For HD I want more than two rounds.

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Old 09-19-2012, 15:42   #34
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I know I am in the minority around here but even though I own (2) 870 tactical shotguns and a Benelli M4, I just don't see the utility of a shotgun for defense inside the house.

In my view, clearing a house with a shotgun is an advanced topic and better done as a member of a team. I would much prefer to use a handgun. I can protect and retain the weapon much easier. In addition, it is faster to aquire a target and the cycle rate easily outruns an 870. And some handguns carry a lot of ammo.

Now, I can see using a shotgun to protect the external property but, in California, that is a debatable issue. It might not be legal. You can not use deadly force to protect property around here. If there was a firefight, I would rather have an AR-15.

I do give points to the shotgun for stopping power. There is no comparison between a 00-buck load and .45 ACP. The buckshot wins every time!

So, while it is tacti-cool to have the extended magazine and all the rail mounted stuff, and I have every bit of it, I tend to use my shotguns for target practice and may eventually use them for 3-gun matches. Sure, they're loaded. But I'm not sure they would be anywhere near my first choice. It would have to be one heck of a home invasion to cause me to grab a shotgun versus one or more handguns.

Maybe 'lie in wait' and shoot them when they come through the bedroom door is a good scenario for a shotgun. But if the BGs are in the livingroom and I'm in the bedroom, a shotgun won't be my first choice should I decide to start something.

But that's just me! Other scenarios are possible and there may be some where the shotgun would be the preferred choice. Maybe I just haven't thought about it enough...

Or maybe I'm overthinking it...

Richard
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Old 09-19-2012, 16:44   #35
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A handgun is used to fight your way to a long gun....

I agree that clearing the house is not something I would typically want to undertake by myself, but that is not my HD plan. My son's bedroom is across from ours. I would take up a position in my doorway, looking down the hall. If they want to take the tv in the living room, fine...it is insured. Step into my hallway though and there will be 9 pellets heading your way. Of course, the shotgun is only one layer of defense. Outdoor lighting, strong locks, alarm, and the 100lb dog have to be defeated first.

ETA: Nothing tactical about my shotgun...Remington 870 Wingmaster, with the barrel cut down to 18.5". Wood furniture, no rails, no BS.

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Old 09-19-2012, 18:01   #36
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Mossberg sells their 930 semi auto in a combo with a 18.5" hd barrel and a 28" vent rib barrel.

Perfect for the op needs.

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Old 09-19-2012, 18:15   #37
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Mossberg sells their 930 semi auto in a combo with a 18.5" hd barrel and a 28" vent rib barrel.
That would be a sweet setup!

Apparently the combo is available for a little over $500:
http://grabagun.com/msbrg-930-12-28-...o-mbl-syn.html

Yes, I know it is out of stock but that was the first place that showed a price.

I think availability might be an issue.

EDIT: There are variations on the theme. Be certain to get the one with the vent rib barrel for skeet.

Richard
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Old 09-20-2012, 10:49   #38
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That would be a sweet setup!

Apparently the combo is available for a little over $500:
http://grabagun.com/msbrg-930-12-28-...o-mbl-syn.html

Yes, I know it is out of stock but that was the first place that showed a price.

I think availability might be an issue.

EDIT: There are variations on the theme. Be certain to get the one with the vent rib barrel for skeet.

Richard
85325 is the model number. Not in stock at buds or able either.

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Old 09-20-2012, 12:19   #39
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Thats like trying to find a cross between an apple and an orange. a short barreled HD shotgun is going to suck on the range even if you have interchangeable chokes. A skeet/trap shotgun is going to have at least a 24" barrel and harder to maneuver indoors.

This could not be further from the truth.

18.5 inch barrel shoots just fine with skeet. It's the indian. not the arrow (or bow in this case)
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Old 09-20-2012, 12:40   #40
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This could not be further from the truth.

18.5 inch barrel shoots just fine with skeet. It's the indian. not the arrow (or bow in this case)
I disagree. Sure, you can shoot skeet with a HD shotgun, but that does not mean it is optimal. The longer barrel assists with swing and follow through. I've played with my HD shotgun on a skeet course, and my score greatly improved when I went back to the O/U.
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