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Old 09-20-2012, 17:28   #51
tnpatriot
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Originally Posted by Tree Rat View Post
To the OP - Rich22. I'm sorry to be the lightning rod for blowing this thread up with my comments about a certain gun powder. Good luck with your search and be careful with your workups whatever you choose.

For you other defensive malcontents - I agree, it's just powder which doesn't justify getting ones panties in a wad. Obviously I have reached some strong opinions about certain products in our hobby. These opinions are personal to me and launching off with the "Unique is the best ever, so you and your stuff must be all hosed up tirade" is when this thing went down hill.

It used to be around here a bunch of us could have some irrevrent banter with some humility and self defication about ones choices in our sport/hobby without any real anomosity or personal slights. I apologize for upsetting the apple cart with the new crew.

What the hell happend to this place................



TR
Seems to me ,you are the only one with a panty wad. I think what you have found hear is a little maturity. Grow up and hang with us or go back to the house till you do.
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Old 09-20-2012, 17:54   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnpatriot View Post
Seems to me ,you are the only one with a panty wad. I think what you have found hear is a little maturity. Grow up and hang with us or go back to the house till you do.
Sure your right. I'm glad to see you reconize who I was primarily addressing here.

Last post on this thread....you win.


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Old 09-20-2012, 18:11   #53
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WW231 or Power Pistol. Both have worked well for me in 9mm loads. I've only used Unique (years ago) in .357 Mag. Bullseye is the powder de jour for double charges.
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Old 09-20-2012, 19:08   #54
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Originally Posted by tnpatriot View Post
I get pretty good accuracy with 231, but I always seem to get a lot of unburned powder . Any of y'all experence this?
I only used one pound of it, but I didn't find that. I did find that it acted more like Bullseye with lead bullets than Unique, it was limited to lighter loads before leading set in, but I didn't have unburned powder. It could be the data you were using. See if you can look some older data they might be a little warmer, that might clean things up since unburned powder is usually from too light a charge. With a fast powder like 231 though, it usually doesn't happen as light charges usually work well with fast powders.
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Old 09-20-2012, 19:27   #55
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I use Bullseye, W231, and Unique for 9mm.

Bullseye for 90gr bullets, W231 and Unique for 115gr and 124gr bullets.
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Old 09-22-2012, 00:00   #56
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WSF, it's pretty much spherical Unique. I find in several calibers, it's veryslightly slower than Unique. So if I do not have WSF data. using starting Unique data is really, really close.
On the topic of spherical powder. I have heard many say that Unique is a spherical powder. Well, I have Unique, HP-38, and Accurate #2. Of the three, only Accurate #2 is a spherical ball powder, Unique and HP-38 are actually flake powders. Unique has a much larger flake than HP-38. But they are definitely not spherical ball powders.

I really like Accurate #2 simply because it is a spherical powder and as such, measures very well with the Lee auto desk measures. I very much want to try other powders. But only if they are true spherical ball powders. Are there any recommendations. Maybe Accurate #5 or #7???
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Old 09-22-2012, 00:13   #57
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I just did an experiment using Unique. I went to the Alliance website and looked at the load data for 115gn 9mm FMJ. It says to use 6.3gn.

I hand weighed 6.3gn of Unique and poured the powder load into a sized the primed 9mm casing. To my surprise, the powder load filled the case to the top of the case neck. There seemed to be absolutely no room to seat a pulled without compressing the powder. I've read that compressing in the case is something to be avoided.

So, if my experiment is correct, as indicated in the Alliance website, how do you get 6.x grains of Unique into a 9mm casing and still seat the bullet?

Hope this question is not to far of the rails.
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Old 09-22-2012, 05:22   #58
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Originally Posted by Gpruitt54 View Post
I just did an experiment using Unique. I went to the Alliance website and looked at the load data for 115gn 9mm FMJ. It says to use 6.3gn.

I hand weighed 6.3gn of Unique and poured the powder load into a sized the primed 9mm casing. To my surprise, the powder load filled the case to the top of the case neck. There seemed to be absolutely no room to seat a pulled without compressing the powder. I've read that compressing in the case is something to be avoided.

So, if my experiment is correct, as indicated in the Alliance website, how do you get 6.x grains of Unique into a 9mm casing and still seat the bullet?

Hope this question is not to far of the rails.
There is nothing wrong with compressing loads. If Alliant lists it as safe, it's safe. I run 6.0 with a 124 all the time.

Second, HP38 is ball powder that has been flattened. Why they roll the balls like oats to flatten them I have no idea, but that's what they do with that powder, hence the "ball powder" designation on the bottle.

And AA5 is similar to Unique in burn rate. I have one pound that I use for loading 12G slugs and it flows almost too well. I haven't used it in my Autodisk, but it leaks on my Lee Loadall II. Granted, the Loadall has very lose tolerances, it doesn't leak with Red Dot. I'm only guessing on this, but I could see where AA5 might leak on an Autodisk even though it has tighter clearances.
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Old 09-22-2012, 08:22   #59
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Originally Posted by Tree Rat View Post

It used to be around here a bunch of us could have some irrevrent banter with some humility and self defication about ones choices in our sport/hobby without any real anomosity or personal slights. I apologize for upsetting the apple cart with the new crew.

What the hell happend to this place................



TR
Jack ain't been posting for a while.

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Old 09-22-2012, 09:31   #60
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Hay, I am a new reloader. New reloaders like me, are not likely to redefine or ignore what the manuals recommend. An experienced reloader like your self can do that with a large degree of comfort, but not someone who is just getting started. All of the manuals I have read (Lyman, Lee, Hornady) say that you should not ever compress powder. But,if the manuals are wrong; then, the manuals are wrong. I’ll buy that.

So, a powder that comes outof the bottle as small spherical graduals (like Accurate #2) is called spherical powder. OK, I get that. But if a powder is manufactured as small spherical graduals, but later in the manufacturing process; is pressed into flakes (like Unique), is called spherical powder??? That makes no since to me. Why is this product defined per an incomplete part of its manufacturing process? When you pour Unique out of its bottle, it comes out as individual flat flakes; not spherical graduals. It’s flake powder??? No?

Sorry for the dumb questions,I am trying to get educated on all things reloading. You experienced guys are confusing a new, buy the book learner. I don’t know when it’s OK to ignore the manuals.

On this point specfically, I 've been having issues measureing flake powder. I recently discovered Accurate #2. It measures very well in my Lee ProAuto Disk. Acc #2 is not giving me the FPS I need so, I am looking for other Spherical powders, powders pour from it's bottle as small spherical granduals.

Last edited by Gpruitt54; 09-22-2012 at 09:41..
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Old 09-22-2012, 09:54   #61
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Don't worry about powder shape type. Just find one that works for you. WSF. Power Pistol.
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Old 09-22-2012, 10:28   #62
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On the topic of spherical powder. I have heard many say that Unique is a spherical powder. Well, I have Unique, HP-38, and Accurate #2. Of the three, only Accurate #2 is a spherical ball powder, Unique and HP-38 are actually flake powders. Unique has a much larger flake than HP-38. But they are definitely not spherical ball powders.
I really like Accurate #2 simply because it is a spherical powder and as such, measures very well with the Lee auto desk measures. I very much want to try other powders. But only if they are true spherical ball powders. Are there any recommendations. Maybe Accurate #5 or #7???
Well Unique is certainly not anything but a flake powder. AA#2 is actually a ball powder, HP38/W231 are the same spherical powder. The diff is, ball is just that, small little balls. Spherical is a flattend ball powder. The terms are pretty interchangeable. Yes, AA#5 is a better choice for 9mm if you want to stay w/ a ball powder.
"HP38 is a spherical powder that is great for low velocity and mid-range target loads in the .38 Special, .44 Special, and 45 ACP".
The only importance in knowing powder type is for choosing powders to run well in certain measures, Ball or spherical will always meter smoother & more uniformly, but you can get a flake powder to meter well enough.
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Last edited by fredj338; 09-22-2012 at 13:12..
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Old 09-22-2012, 11:05   #63
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Originally Posted by Gpruitt54 View Post
Hay, I am a new reloader. New reloaders like me, are not likely to redefine or ignore what the manuals recommend. An experienced reloader like your self can do that with a large degree of comfort, but not someone who is just getting started. All of the manuals I have read (Lyman, Lee, Hornady) say that you should not ever compress powder. But,if the manuals are wrong; then, the manuals are wrong. Iíll buy that.

So, a powder that comes outof the bottle as small spherical graduals (like Accurate #2) is called spherical powder. OK, I get that. But if a powder is manufactured as small spherical graduals, but later in the manufacturing process; is pressed into flakes (like Unique), is called spherical powder??? That makes no since to me. Why is this product defined per an incomplete part of its manufacturing process? When you pour Unique out of its bottle, it comes out as individual flat flakes; not spherical graduals. Itís flake powder??? No?

Sorry for the dumb questions,I am trying to get educated on all things reloading. You experienced guys are confusing a new, buy the book learner. I donít know when itís OK to ignore the manuals.

On this point specfically, I 've been having issues measureing flake powder. I recently discovered Accurate #2. It measures very well in my Lee ProAuto Disk. Acc #2 is not giving me the FPS I need so, I am looking for other Spherical powders, powders pour from it's bottle as small spherical granduals.
I agree about staying within the manuals. Everyone should heed them, not just new reloaders. I have never seen an admonishment against compressing powders in manuals, and I own several. Some of my manuals even follow a given charge with a "C" or an "*" to denote a compressed charge.

As far as powder shape nomenclature, it has to do with how the powder granules are formed. Stick powders are extruded through a die and cut of in short lengths forming sticks. Flake powders are extruded through dies and cut into thin wafers, sort of like bologna being sliced on a deli slicer. Balls powders are formed into balls (I'm not sure how) and either left as balls or flattened a bit (I don't know why).

Also, Winchester uses the term "Ball" as sort of a brand name. So even if a particular powder isn't turly a ball by the time it gets shipped to you, they still use the term "Ball".
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Old 09-22-2012, 11:07   #64
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Jack ain't been posting for a while.

I thought he meant "self deprecating", but now that you mention it, I agree, he was talking about Jack.
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:34   #65
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Depending on the objective of the loads.

If for higher velocity without regard for flash power pistol, AA #7 (though it doesn't flash)

Medium velocity without the flash AA #7, WSF, Universal.

Lower velocity and not much powder though can be dirtier Bullseye and W231.

I personally don't like Unique for the 9mm is due to the loads I shoot it tends to spill out when loading on the 550b Dillon. I do load it on the 40 S&W but I don't like the flash for the most part.

But the powders I personally like the best for 9mm is WSF, AA #7 and Universal. All clean and low flash. Meters well.

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Old 09-23-2012, 10:59   #66
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Winchester 231 for light to moderate loads.

Power Pistol for full power loads.
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Old 09-24-2012, 00:39   #67
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Universal is my new favorite.

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Originally Posted by glock_19guy1983 View Post
Universal clays has a similar burn rate and meters much better than unique.
I have used a dozen different powders. I went through my notes. I really like Universal for accuracy for both 9mm and 45ACP. Its burn rate is similar to Unique but is much cleaner. It meters in my Dillon great.
Some of my best groups were with Bullseye. I have used a lot of HP38/Win231 but never got the accuracy with the bullets I have tried that I hoped for.
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Old 09-27-2012, 13:16   #68
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Old 09-29-2012, 07:59   #69
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AA#7 was created for 9mm, for the Israeli army...mostly for carbine use...and if you do some research, medium burn rate powders work a little better in the 9mm than do fast powders such as Red Dot, Bullseye, AA#2, etc. Some people forget that the 9mm is a fairly high pressure round....33,000 or so. Universal is one I also use, but AA#7 is pretty much my favorite now.
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Old 09-29-2012, 18:41   #70
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I have been using Blue Dot and after reading this thread, I have a lot of others to try. Thanks.
And if you don't like Blue Dot...well then we meet at Dunkin Donuts and it's Cream Puffs at 10 paces. :-)
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Old 09-29-2012, 19:09   #71
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I have used a dozen different powders. I went through my notes. I really like Universal for accuracy for both 9mm and 45ACP. Its burn rate is similar to Unique but is much cleaner. It meters in my Dillon great.
Some of my best groups were with Bullseye. I have used a lot of HP38/Win231 but never got the accuracy with the bullets I have tried that I hoped for.
What .45acp load do you like with Universal? I tried it in my first 230gr FMJ loads and was not happy. Low end was super slow and incomplete combustion. Mid range loads had lots of recoil. More recently, I picked up some 185gr JHP. I wonder if it's worth trying a 6gr Universal load with them?
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Old 09-29-2012, 20:13   #72
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aa#5 is what i use in 9mm in my dillon. works well.
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Old 09-30-2012, 06:27   #73
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Ramshot Silhouette with 115's. Pretty much the same powder as Win action pistol

AA#7 with 124 and 147's
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Old 09-30-2012, 16:34   #74
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Powder suggestions for Bullseye League shooting?

I shoot in a bullseye league with my Glock 34 and have been trying some different reloads. The most important thing for me is recovery of the sight picture/alignment. I was using Bullseye powder, and now I am using Vit N320. I'm not sure that the N320 is the best to use in my Glock. I have had some issues with cycling...the lower powder measure results in failure to extract, and higher measures result in impossible recovery of the sights on target. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you
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Old 09-30-2012, 17:24   #75
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I shoot in a bullseye league with my Glock 34 and have been trying some different reloads. The most important thing for me is recovery of the sight picture/alignment. I was using Bullseye powder, and now I am using Vit N320. I'm not sure that the N320 is the best to use in my Glock. I have had some issues with cycling...the lower powder measure results in failure to extract, and higher measures result in impossible recovery of the sights on target. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you
You shoot Bullseye with a Glock 9mil?? Must be a local league.

I use 320 for literally everything and get light loads cycling my 34 racer with 124s and all my stock Glocks with 147s.

What's your load?
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