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Old 09-15-2012, 12:57   #1
ray9898
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Ohio police officers cited after man's death

CBS news


Wow...the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

They transport a drunk to the Taco Bell to wait for a ride instead of an arrest. They get charged when he is hit by a car an hour later.

Last edited by ray9898; 09-15-2012 at 12:59..
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Old 09-15-2012, 13:06   #2
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Sorry, but in this situation they should have had someone come and pick him up at the scene or given him a courtesy transport. In either case he would have been handed over to a sober, competent person.
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Old 09-15-2012, 13:15   #3
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They didn't think they could charge with DUI? UM... well, what happened to APC or PI?

I don't give courtesy rides. If I'm kind enough to let them call a ride, which is rare, I always make sure to stick around to make sure a sober person pick them up before i clear off. If they can't find a ride, I PI them and to the drunk tank they go. I'm not a taxi, I don't give drunks a ride home.

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Old 09-15-2012, 13:19   #4
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Interesting, but they won't be convicted. Their opinion of whether he committed the offense is pretty much the end of the story. If it was their opinion that they didn't have PC to arrest, they couldn't arrest. Here and most places, it is a legal requirement of a valid arrest that the arresting officer "believes" the arrest to be lawful. However, Ohio law is fairly strange and may be different.

The most interesting thing about the thread will be that the same people who would claim the racist polcie were "profiling" poor Uriel Juarez Popoca, if they arrested him, are trying to come up with good insults and arguments against the police for giving him a break and giving him a ride.
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Old 09-15-2012, 13:26   #5
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The most interesting thing about the thread will be that the same people who would claim the racist polcie were "profiling" poor Uriel Juarez Popoca, if they arrested him, are trying to come up with good insults and arguments against the police for giving him a break and giving him a ride.
Can't please all of the people, all of the time. And some people you can't please at all...



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Old 09-15-2012, 13:33   #6
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True story.

Fraternity brother of mine was drunk and snagged by police while walking on the street. Convinced the officer to drop him off at a friend's house.
Did not mention that his car was there. He hop's in and wrecks on the way home.
He nearly dies from his stupidity. Gets a good lawyer and sues the police dept. Wins.
I know he came out if it several hundred thousand ahead.

WTF?
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Old 09-15-2012, 14:07   #7
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Originally Posted by CLoft239 View Post
They didn't think they could charge with DUI? UM... well, what happened to APC or PI?
Guess it depends on their laws. In GA for example our public intox law has an additional element of some type of disorderly conduct. Simply being under the influence is not criminal.
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Old 09-15-2012, 14:18   #8
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Guess it depends on their laws. In GA for example our public intox law has an additional element of some type of disorderly conduct. Simply being under the influence is not criminal.
Where I used to work, it was the prosecutor's opinion that inside a car is not "public" so people in a car could not be charged with public intoxication offenses. In a case like the one described, we could have charged the guy with DUI with some additional evidence, but if the car was broken down, he didn't have the keys, or something like that, we couldn't arrest him.

It just crossed my mind: they picked up a drunk Mexican who ddn't speak much English, and they dropped him off at Taco bell?
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Old 09-15-2012, 14:36   #9
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Wow... I guess we have it pretty decent here then.. the last dept I worked at, the DA was even happier to charge. Almost nothing got kicked back. Where I'm at now, it's kind if iffy.

APC would have been the route to go in this case assuming the vehicle was functional (here anyways). All we need to meet APC (aside from them being intoxicated) is that the vehicle be capable of moving on it's own power. If it can move forwards, and backwards, we're generally good to go.

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Old 09-15-2012, 15:01   #10
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I've had several people try to get my to drop them off places that werent home after getting blood drawn.

No I'm not dropping you off at your car so you can get things out,no I won't drop you off a block away because it will embarrass your kids and no I won't drop you off at the local gas station.
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Old 09-15-2012, 15:38   #11
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I don't have the citation, but there was case law regarding volitional movement in regards to a DUI (i.e., if the car wasn't moving, it wasn't considered a DUI).

I can't due an intox. in public out of a car. The car is considered a "private" area, in much the same way that I can't take someone out of their house for being drunk, etc.
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Old 09-15-2012, 15:50   #12
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In this day and age of nanny state no personal responsibility the officers left themselves open to trouble by just dropping him off.

I do not however agree that they should be charged. The intoxicated person was an adult and responsible for himself. They removed him from danger and potential danger to the public by removing him from the highway median. Citing them because the fool got himself killed an hour later is just BS.
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Old 09-15-2012, 19:26   #13
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Lemme guess: a certain chief prosecutor is looking to make a name for themself?

Wouldn't fly here, even in 9th Circus country. Now, for a civil matter? Of course.
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Old 09-15-2012, 20:23   #14
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Originally Posted by Dragoon44 View Post
I do not however agree that they should be charged. The intoxicated person was an adult and responsible for himself. They removed him from danger and potential danger to the public by removing him from the highway median. Citing them because the fool got himself killed an hour later is just BS.
My issue is just because an adult is intoxicated does not mean they lose all personal responsibility for their decisions. While a common option is to 'release' them to another sober adult in reality that is not fixing the problem either because no legal custodial power exists.

If this becomes a trend are we going to be held responsible if someone does something stupid after we have a friend or family member pick them up?
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Old 09-15-2012, 22:51   #15
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Here in CA if someone doesn't meet the definition of DUI (in or about vehicle in control) and they are not drunk in public (not intoxicated to the point they can no longer care for themselves) we can't arrest them.

Now most officers if they can push drunk in public they will. If they have to. They try not to because if they go to arrest the guy and he fight and gets hurt guess who is in the jackpot now?

Sometimes the only way to stay out of trouble in this job is to call in sick.
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Old 09-16-2012, 06:01   #16
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Physical Control OVI is on the books here in Ohio.

The dash-cam audio is what's going to **** them more than anything else..
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Old 09-16-2012, 06:15   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray9898 View Post
My issue is just because an adult is intoxicated does not mean they lose all personal responsibility for their decisions. While a common option is to 'release' them to another sober adult in reality that is not fixing the problem either because no legal custodial power exists.

If this becomes a trend are we going to be held responsible if someone does something stupid after we have a friend or family member pick them up?
At the rate it is going if something happens to the pick up person while they are on the way to pick up the drunk the cops will be at fault.
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Old 09-16-2012, 06:46   #18
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Our public intox statute is "Intoxicated and Disruptive" so there has to be a disruptive part. Typically if they are that drunk, we call EMS and have them transport to the hospital since they can't make decisions on their own.

For a DWI, you can be in physical control of the vehicle (sitting in the drivers seat with the keys in your possession). Not saying it'll get prosecuted, but you can make the arrest. You absolutely will lose it in court though. I can see some officers (if court is same way here) that would say why bother. Why waste 3-4 hours that night, plus 7-8 court dates on something that will never result in a conviction, when you can drop him off and get a ride and you're done in an hour.

But honestly, if you have 2 Deputies and a Trooper who don't believe an arrest can be made, then I'm guessing no arrest could have been made. Does anyone know a Trooper anywhere that would turn down a DWI?
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Old 09-16-2012, 08:46   #19
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I'm not far off from this area.

If he was not actually driving, then they couldn't arrest him for OVI in Ohio. They could have gotten him for physical control (behind the wheel with keys within reach, so basically the passenger compartment). It's still an arrestable offense.
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Old 09-16-2012, 13:05   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keoking View Post
True story.

Fraternity brother of mine was drunk and snagged by police while walking on the street. Convinced the officer to drop him off at a friend's house.
Did not mention that his car was there. He hop's in and wrecks on the way home.
He nearly dies from his stupidity. Gets a good lawyer and sues the police dept. Wins.
I know he came out if it several hundred thousand ahead.

WTF?
Won, or settled?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren View Post
Where I used to work, it was the prosecutor's opinion that inside a car is not "public" so people in a car could not be charged with public intoxication offenses. In a case like the one described, we could have charged the guy with DUI with some additional evidence, but if the car was broken down, he didn't have the keys, or something like that, we couldn't arrest him.

It just crossed my mind: they picked up a drunk Mexican who ddn't speak much English, and they dropped him off at Taco bell?
We have a case in my state that says exactly that. A passenger in a vehicle cannot be arrested for Public Intoxication. Beyond that, if they leave the vehicle, it obviously needs to be of their own volition.

And a drunk driving charge doesn't fly on APC alone (here, of course). That said, they found the guy in the median of the highway. I'm guessing one could easily articulate operation based on tire tracks, engine temperature, etc, etc, etc.
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