GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-18-2012, 12:25   #151
BR549
Thread Killer
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren View Post
Why most Doomsday preppers will die ...by Me.

Because there are 2 kinds of people in the world: Predators and Prey. I am convinced that absolutely every single person is one or the other, but civilized society makes it hard to tell for sure which is which.

The division between them isn't liberal/conservative or pro-gun/anti-gun, or prepared/unprepared. The difference is that Predators don't kill you and take what they want from you right now, because the threat of prison makes that a bad idea for them and self-interest dictates that they have the most pleasure in life by getting along in society (obviously, the less bright of them sometimes fail to make the distinction and they serve as an example to the others, mainly in prisons).

Prey are the kind of people who don't kill you and take what you've got because it "wrong" and "bad" and "evil" and whatever. They're the kind of people who think wacky crap like "everybody would just get along in a communal society without government" but they are also the people down the street in the minivan, who think "people are basically good."

If the government enforcement of law disappears, I think the prey will discover how many people were predators and they they are too weak to ever become predators - that's what is missing from their prepping. Without the government, predators and prey will work among people just like it does in the jungle. Good luck. Most of you will need it.
Very interesting perspective.

This reminds me of the movie Death Sentence in which a "prey" turns into a "predator of predators". It was a very interesting and captivating movie with very gripping, emotional, thought-provoking content (whether you like Kevin Bacon or not).
BR549 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2012, 12:46   #152
SFCSMITH(RET)
Senior Member
 
SFCSMITH(RET)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Central Kentucky
Posts: 2,316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren View Post
Why most Doomsday preppers will die ...by Me.

Because there are 2 kinds of people in the world: Predators and Prey. I am convinced that absolutely every single person is one or the other, but civilized society makes it hard to tell for sure which is which.
I'm going to say there must be a third type, and that is where many here probably fall.

I will not be out robbing and killing and taking others stuff. That is WHY I prepare. I think/believe it would be WRONG to kill someone for their gummi bears, which is why I planned ahead and bought/stored my gummi's in bulk.

I believe, had I not preppared, then again, it would be wrong of me, and I would not do it, to kill someone else who had, to get theirs.

That does not mean I cannot or will not bring myself to kill to protect what is MINE.. No problem at all with that. None.

I guess that makes me neither predator, nor prey. Or at least that is how I feel about it.

Last edited by SFCSMITH(RET); 09-18-2012 at 12:47..
SFCSMITH(RET) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2012, 13:22   #153
Bren
NRA Life Member
 
Bren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 33,500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFCSMITH(RET) View Post
I'm going to say there must be a third type, and that is where many here probably fall.

I will not be out robbing and killing and taking others stuff. That is WHY I prepare. I think/believe it would be WRONG to kill someone for their gummi bears, which is why I planned ahead and bought/stored my gummi's in bulk.

I believe, had I not preppared, then again, it would be wrong of me, and I would not do it, to kill someone else who had, to get theirs.

That does not mean I cannot or will not bring myself to kill to protect what is MINE.. No problem at all with that. None.

I guess that makes me neither predator, nor prey. Or at least that is how I feel about it.

What I mean by "prey" is those people who have to "bring themselves" to kill to protect what is theirs. I'm not saying the prey will refuse to kill others or that the predators will do so indicriminately, just that there are people who need a better reason to kill those who wrong them, or who they dislike, and there are those who need a reason not to. Those who need a reason not to will eat the stored supplies of those who need a reason to.
__________________
If you are not an NRA member, you are not involved in gun rights, so sit down and shut the +%@# up.
Bren is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2012, 13:26   #154
Bren
NRA Life Member
 
Bren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 33,500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unistat View Post
Completely disagree. Far to simplistic. You presuppose that people who would not prey on others are incapable of defending themselves. Self-defense is not predatory behavior.
There you go. You identify yourself as so firmly a member of the "prey" that you don't even understaned the direction I'm coming from. Self-defense is not predatory behavior - it's what the food does before you eat it. Exactly my point.

As for this thread, my post is very much about the difference between gangsta types, like the video that was posted, and people "defending themselves." 1 on 1, in a civilized society, you will win the fight against them all day long, because you have skills, equipment and the backing of the legal system. Take that away and you will lose.
__________________
If you are not an NRA member, you are not involved in gun rights, so sit down and shut the +%@# up.

Last edited by Bren; 09-18-2012 at 13:27..
Bren is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2012, 13:55   #155
Bilbo Bagins
Slacked jawed
 
Bilbo Bagins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 11,213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leigh View Post
A 30-06 or 338 Lapua (or insert whatever rifle/scope combo you choose) in the hands of an average thug is quite limited without that individual having learned or trained the skills in which to employ the weapon effectively.

Case in point, a friend of mine has a lot of rural property and a full 400-meter (very flat) range. Every Summer he invites shooting his shooting buddies to bring their pet rifle. He places a 5-gallon bucket full of colored water (sometimes Tannerite..woo-hoo) for target practice at just over 300 meters.

Offhand and even prone, few shooters hit the "mark" with their first round (me included).

My point? An untrained individual (i.e. "criminal") with the biggest/baddest rifle in the world is much less of a threat at extended distances than most would believe.
Also understand that at 300 meter, hitting a target that size is what is called Basic Rifle Qualification in the Army and Marines.

Also understand that for every hillbilly farm boy that joins the US military looking to get away and see the world, there is a poor kid from the city doing the same thing.

You guys watch way too many movies. Its not all about rappers holding their pistols sideways. We are talking large street gangs with thousands of members, who encourage members to join the military to get free training. They have training and armories that would make al Qaeda jealous.

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-18563_162-3108597.html

Bilbo Bagins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2012, 14:35   #156
quake
Senior Member
 
quake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Arkansas, USA
Posts: 7,923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren View Post
...Because there are 2 kinds of people in the world: Predators and Prey. I am convinced that absolutely every single person is one or the other, but civilized society makes it hard to tell for sure which is which.
As others have pointed out (unless I'm missing something in your definitions), there's a third type. A wolf is a predator, a sheep is prey, and a sheepdog is what? Maybe a sheepdog is best described as a "controlled predator"...? But he's certainly neither full-on predator (since he spends all day with the prey without doing them harm); nor full-on prey either.

Sheepdogs aside (I'm not the biggest fan of the 'sheepdog' analogy), how about a simple donkey? Is a donkey in a pasture with sheep, cattle, whatever, a predator or prey? Well, he's both. You do know that while a donkey will spend all day peacefully grazing with other domestic animals, he'll not only kill a wolf or coyote, he'll attack and kill a wolf or coyote, right?

So if a simple donkey is more complex than your definitions allow, isn't it possible that humans are more complex than that also?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren View Post
...Prey are the kind of people who don't kill you and take what you've got because it "wrong" and "bad" and "evil" and whatever. They're the kind of people who think wacky crap like "everybody would just get along in a communal society without government"...
Those two statements aren't at all inherently linked logically, and one of them applying to a person, certainly doesn't mean that the other one does. The first applies to me and the second absolutely doesn't; I assume that's probably true of a lot of folks here. Frankly, the first one applies to every one of the few genuine special-forces people I've known; and while it would be a mistake to broadly categorize them as "prey", that's what your definition does. I always find it interesting when people who've never met me, tell me about myself. Making assumptions about people you've never met (whether me, the idiot on the videos, or whoever) is a mistake; as is most pontification without information.

Between here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren View Post
What I mean by "prey" is those people who have to "bring themselves" to kill to protect what is theirs. I'm not saying the prey will refuse to kill others or that the predators will do so indicriminately, just that there are people who need a better reason to kill those who wrong them, or who they dislike, and there are those who need a reason not to.
and here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren View Post
Those who need a reason not to will eat the stored supplies of those who need a reason to.
You seem to make the assumption that 'needing a reason' before killing someone equates to 'losing the encounter'.

Obviously not true or logical, or else every confrontation in history would have been won by the thug element.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren View Post
...Self-defense is not predatory behavior - it's what the food does before you eat it.
No; ineffective self-defense is what food does before you eat it. Effective self-defense kills the opponent - regardless of whether the 'opponent' is predator or prey. Sometimes the predator wins, sometimes the predator loses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren View Post
...my post is very much about the difference between gangsta types, like the video that was posted, and people "defending themselves." 1 on 1, in a civilized society, you will win the fight against them all day long, because you have skills, equipment and the backing of the legal system. Take that away and you will lose.
Again, you seem to be asserting that without the protection of some benevolent government power, the good guy always loses and the bad guy always wins; and that's historically just incorrect.
__________________
"The best a man can hope for is a chance to prove that the good lord didn't make a mistake putting him here in the first place." - Will Sonnett

"Only problem with women my own age, is they're so damn old." - my dad at 89...
quake is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2012, 14:49   #157
PaulMason
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo Bagins View Post
Also understand that at 300 meter, hitting a target that size is what is called Basic Rifle Qualification in the Army and Marines.

Also understand that for every hillbilly farm boy that joins the US military looking to get away and see the world, there is a poor kid from the city doing the same thing.

You guys watch way too many movies. Its not all about rappers holding their pistols sideways. We are talking large street gangs with thousands of members, who encourage members to join the military to get free training. They have training and armories that would make al Qaeda jealous.
Great info - thanks.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/justi...on/a/gangs.htm
PaulMason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2012, 15:15   #158
Unistat
Senior Member
 
Unistat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SE Michigan, near Detroit
Posts: 1,407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren View Post
There you go. You identify yourself as so firmly a member of the "prey" that you don't even understaned the direction I'm coming from. Self-defense is not predatory behavior - it's what the food does before you eat it. Exactly my point.
Whatever chief. I understand perfectly what you are saying. I also understand that it's over-simplistic and flawed.
__________________
There are basically two kinds of people in this world. Those that believe in the Moon Landing and those that don't.
Unistat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2012, 15:18   #159
Unistat
Senior Member
 
Unistat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SE Michigan, near Detroit
Posts: 1,407
Quote:
Originally Posted by beatcop View Post
A little off track, but Hitler got some mileage......

Don't hold your breath waiting on people to hunt down bad guys in a shtf scenario...not happening. Folks will protect "their own" when times are dangerous, even today..you have people walk past victims on the street in modern day.

What makes you think they will risk their tail to help? Human nature? It's learned...when "other" lessons are learned, folks won't be as helpfull. If it wasn't for the police, some religion, etc this country would be a shooting range.
What do you think civilization is? It starts by people grouping with "their own" for mutual benefit. Nobody said anything about waiting for anyone.
__________________
There are basically two kinds of people in this world. Those that believe in the Moon Landing and those that don't.
Unistat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2012, 20:33   #160
lawman800
Juris Glocktor
 
lawman800's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Out the frying pan & into the fire!
Posts: 37,330
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by quake View Post
Cf..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by quake View Post
What's "Cf"...?

The only cf's I know are conversion factor, cash flow, and maybe caucasian female.
Cf. is a lawyer literary device meaning "in reference to".
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueiron:
I've said it before and I'll say it here: they'd look better with lividity.
lawman800 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2012, 21:13   #161
quake
Senior Member
 
quake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Arkansas, USA
Posts: 7,923
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawman800 View Post
Cf. is a lawyer literary device meaning "in reference to".
Ah. Thanks.
__________________
"The best a man can hope for is a chance to prove that the good lord didn't make a mistake putting him here in the first place." - Will Sonnett

"Only problem with women my own age, is they're so damn old." - my dad at 89...
quake is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2012, 18:47   #162
G29Reload
Tread Lightly
 
G29Reload's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 11,172
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawman800 View Post
Cf. is a lawyer literary device meaning "in reference to".
Here it means Certified Funds.


__________________
Avenge me...AVENGE ME!
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_z2d4IxltHJ...on%26Fence.png
G29Reload is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2012, 21:15   #163
wjv
Senior Member
 
wjv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 12,256
Quote:
Originally Posted by G29Reload View Post
Here it means Certified Funds.



or Crappy Forum?
__________________
Bill
Pacific NW


The urge to save humanity is almost always a false-face for the urge to rule it.
- H. L. Mencken -
wjv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2012, 06:26   #164
USMC_G19
Ham Salad
 
USMC_G19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 125
most will die due to lack of a can opener.
__________________
"What is best in life?"
"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their women!"
USMC_G19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2012, 06:45   #165
quake
Senior Member
 
quake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Arkansas, USA
Posts: 7,923
Quote:
Originally Posted by quake View Post
What's "Cf"...?

The only cf's I know are conversion factor, cash flow, and maybe caucasian female.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawman800 View Post
Cf. is a lawyer literary device meaning "in reference to".
Quote:
Originally Posted by G29Reload View Post
Here it means Certified Funds.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wjv View Post
or Crappy Forum?
I think I'll just stick with Caucasian Female.
__________________
"The best a man can hope for is a chance to prove that the good lord didn't make a mistake putting him here in the first place." - Will Sonnett

"Only problem with women my own age, is they're so damn old." - my dad at 89...
quake is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2012, 11:01   #166
Leigh
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Eastern Kentucky
Posts: 5,357


[QUOTE=Bilbo Bagins;19432707]Also understand that at 300 meter, hitting a target that size is what is called Basic Rifle Qualification in the Army and Marines.

Actually, the distances were 200/300/500 yards.
That was in 1984 when I was stuck on Parris Island, SC for 12 weeks...I shot a 219 with irons.

-Semper Fi

Last edited by Leigh; 09-20-2012 at 11:05..
Leigh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2012, 12:26   #167
Bilbo Bagins
Slacked jawed
 
Bilbo Bagins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 11,213
[quote=Leigh;19439094]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo Bagins View Post
Also understand that at 300 meter, hitting a target that size is what is called Basic Rifle Qualification in the Army and Marines.

Actually, the distances were 200/300/500 yards.
That was in 1984 when I was stuck on Parris Island, SC for 12 weeks...I shot a 219 with irons.

-Semper Fi
That is why they call you Marines, riflemen

I was in the Army in 88. Rifle qualification was 40 rounds total 2/3 from in a foxhole and the rest from prone with random pop up targets at 50 to 300 rounds. Most people (like me) who had any prior rifle handling experience usually ranked sharpshooter or expert. I got 36 out of 40.
Bilbo Bagins is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:49.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,183
339 Members
844 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42