[Misty02]

Originally Posted by RussP

The law that became effective in 2007 is pretty clear that you may carry concealed in a vehicle without a CHL.

My suggestion is to contact an attorney who has actually defended handgun carry cases in Texas and ask him/her how best to act.

If I were in your shoes, I would print out the law and carry it in your vehicle all the time. If you are asked to exit, you need to know exactly what to say. My statement would go something like this, Another resource would be texaschlforum.com. Great bunch of people over there. I'm certain someone there would have the right answer.

I don’t disagree; however, what is the cost of a license in TX? Wouldn’t it be easier, less problematic and worth the peace of mind for both his wife and daughter to get a carry license if they are able to do so?

Whenever possible (I don’t know if possible in the OP’s case) I would opt for the solution that creates fewer headaches and requires the least amount of explanations.

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[Misty02]

Curious, which are the laws in TX about carrying in a vehicle within 1000 feet of a school in a purse without a license? Which are the differences if the individual possesses a license?

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[Misty02]

Originally Posted by Bruce M

Since the officer may know something that you do not, my guess is that in the vast majority of situations informing him early that you are armed is ultimately in your long term best interest. You may think that you being stopped for a traffic violation; the officer may be stopping you because there was just a BOLO issued for a 2009-2010 Red Camry with a specific license plate and a dent in the right rear fender. Or the BOLO might just be a red car. Maybe it was a shoplifting incident. Maybe it was an incident in which someone was murdered. You do not what the BOLO is for or even that it exists and you know you did nothing criminal. But you need to figure out how to get that knowledge to the officer. It would help if you knew that reason for the stop. But you don't.

That is among the main reasons I vacillate between “inform” and “don’t inform” here in Florida in spite the difference in opinions between the officers questioned thus far. I will not know for certain the reason for the stop. The actual reason will highly influence the officer’s reaction to what I volunteer from the beginning of the encounter versus what may be discovered minutes later.

Additionally, what is semi-ok for me is not necessarily ok for either of my sons and we have discussed that. The odds of an officer responding to a call involving a minivan and a middle aged grandmother fitting my description are substantially less than responding to a call involving a vehicle fitting the description of theirs and men in their 20s. Still, in my case, they can have a description of the vehicle (mine is pretty common) and nothing on the driver. Can I convince them, within seconds into the stop, that I’m not a threat and I’m not who they are looking for without disclosing anything that would set alarms off? I don’t know and to this day I’m not sure if I want to test my luck or not.


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[Snapper2]

Originally Posted by Misty02

I get the impression that neither your wife nor daughter have a carry license. My recommendation would be for them to get one as soon as finances permit. If it is not legal for them to carry outside the vehicle without a license, perhaps it is best they don’t have it in something that would be with them if they have to leave their vehicle in a hurry. However, that is exactly what you want them to be able to do (take it with them if they have to abandon the vehicle in a hurry) due to unforeseen circumstances. It all circles back to having a license so they can have it with them when it could be most needed. Meanwhile they need to remain extremely conscious about the fact the purse has to stay behind if they are asked to exit the vehicle. They can go back to retrieve their wallet only.

I had my youngest get license as soon as he became of age in spite him not owning a firearm. I just wanted to make sure that if there was a need for him to run across the street with one of ours he would be able to do so without breaking any laws. It was our birthday present for him (the cost of the license).

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I agree it would be better for them to get CHLs but in until then I give them pepper spray and a handgun for the vehicle they're driving. If their car broke down somewhere and they had to walk or wait for help I believe they'd still be legal in Texas(traveling) as long as its concealed(purse or holster.

[RussP]

Originally Posted by Snapper2

I agree it would be better for them to get CHLs but in until then I give them pepper spray and a handgun for the vehicle they're driving. If their car broke down somewhere and they had to walk or wait for help I believe they'd still be legal in Texas(traveling) as long as its concealed(purse or holster.

You really need to run that one by an attorney in Texas.

Concealed carry without a permit applies while in a vehicle, or directly en route to your vehicle. If they walk down the road, I do not believe the vehicle carry law would provide a valid defense to illegal concealed carry.

[Tactical23]

Originally Posted by SouthernBoyVA

Got to wonder what that LEO was thinking having you do this. I would have been very reluctant to handle my firearm in his presence, or anyone else's when out in the public. I probably would have replied with something like, "If you don't mind officer, I'd rather not handle my gun while you are conducting your business in my presence".

Hindsight, and any future contact, I agree. I was pocket carrying at the time and took it out very slowly with two fingers while he kept a close eye on me.

[Misty02]

Originally Posted by Snapper2

I agree it would be better for them to get CHLs but in until then I give them pepper spray and a handgun for the vehicle they're driving. If their car broke down somewhere and they had to walk or wait for help I believe they'd still be legal in Texas(traveling) as long as its concealed(purse or holster.

They can carry in their purse without a license if they have to walk away from the vehicle because it broke down?

I understand you and your family doing the best you can with what you have, believe me. I just dislike unplanned expenses I could have prevented, they tend to cost more in the long run.

A case totally unrelated to firearms with one of our son’s friend. He bought a used vehicle in great shape for a very good price. The only downside was that the seller gave him only one key, they had lost the spare. I saw it as a problem that could be easily fixed; he could order a key from the dealer for $60 and have his back-up key. He didn’t see it as a problem at all. At some point last weekend he misplaced his keys and missed half a day of work waiting for a locksmith to open his car. Cost of the locksmith, $160 plus the key he needed from day one, another $60 (we won't count the 1/2 day off work). Granted, if he had never misplaced the keys in the first place he would have saved $60. People that underestimate Murphy will pay $220 + for a $60 key though.

Based on this site: http://www.usacarry.com/texas_concealed_carry_permit_information.html the cost of a concealed license in TX is $140 plus the cost for the class. It’s not cheap, for sure. Nonetheless, what would be the cost and other consequences to be suffered by your wife and daughter if they somehow forget (stressful situation or panic) and walk away from the vehicle with the handgun in their purse?

Not trying to push you in either direction when financial (or other) conditions may not be favorable, just tossing some things to consider out there.

Here is wishing you and your family the very best!

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[Snapper2]

Originally Posted by Misty02

They can carry in their purse without a license if they have to walk away from the vehicle because it broke down?

I understand you and your family doing the best you can with what you have, believe me. I just dislike unplanned expenses I could have prevented, they tend to cost more in the long run.

A case totally unrelated to firearms with one of our son’s friend. He bought a used vehicle in great shape for a very good price. The only downside was that the seller gave him only one key, they had lost the spare. I saw it as a problem that could be easily fixed; he could order a key from the dealer for $60 and have his back-up key. He didn’t see it as a problem at all. At some point last weekend he misplaced his keys and missed half a day of work waiting for a locksmith to open his car. Cost of the locksmith, $160 plus the key he needed from day one, another $60 (we won't count the 1/2 day off work). Granted, if he had never misplaced the keys in the first place he would have saved $60. People that underestimate Murphy will pay $220 + for a $60 key though.

Based on this site: http://www.usacarry.com/texas_concealed_carry_permit_information.html the cost of a concealed license in TX is $140 plus the cost for the class. It’s not cheap, for sure. Nonetheless, what would be the cost and other consequences to be suffered by your wife and daughter if they somehow forget (stressful situation or panic) and walk away from the vehicle with the handgun in their purse?

Not trying to push you in either direction when financial (or other) conditions may not be favorable, just tossing some things to consider out there.

Here is wishing you and your family the very best!

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Thanks for the best wishes. Talking them into getting licenses might be easier than getting them to conceal carry IMO. But it would help to have them if they were ever forced to CC as you pointed out. Russ is right. I do need to check into the Texas traveling laws a little better.

[Misty02]

Originally Posted by Snapper2

Thanks for the best wishes. Talking them into getting licenses might be easier than getting them to conceal carry IMO. But it would help to have them if they were ever forced to CC as you pointed out. Russ is right. I do need to check into the Texas traveling laws a little better.

I’m just not familiar with Texas law; for all I know they may be good to go. I’m associating it with Florida where carrying in a purse would constitute concealed carry, which is not permissible without a license.

I’m with Russ in asking a lawyer with experience in that field in your state. Most of us will associate the situation with the laws in our state; sadly, we may drive you down the wrong path if we tried.

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[Snapper2]

Originally Posted by Misty02

A case totally unrelated to firearms with one of our son’s friend. He bought a used vehicle in great shape for a very good price. The only downside was that the seller gave him only one key, they had lost the spare. I saw it as a problem that could be easily fixed; he could order a key from the dealer for $60 and have his back-up key. He didn’t see it as a problem at all. At some point last weekend he misplaced his keys and missed half a day of work waiting for a locksmith to open his car. Cost of the locksmith, $160 plus the key he needed from day one, another $60 (we won't count the 1/2 day off work). Granted, if he had never misplaced the keys in the first place he would have saved $60. People that underestimate Murphy will pay $220 + for a $60 key though.

Murphy makes mine lock their keys in the car so they don't get lost. Cant imagine who they got this from.

[Misty02]

Originally Posted by RussP

You really need to run that one by an attorney in Texas.

Concealed carry without a permit applies while in a vehicle, or directly en route to your vehicle. If they walk down the road, I do not believe the vehicle carry law would provide a valid defense to illegal concealed carry.

This may provide additional information so he can narrow the question to the attorney with some specifics and applicable statutes: http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/InternetForms/Forms/CHL-16.pdf Page 36 contains a section dedicated to Unlawful carrying weapons (which contains the wording you mention). I don’t know if there are other statutes that expand or further restrict what is stated there under specific circumstances, I would ask about those as well.
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[ChuteTheMall]

No duty to inform in VA, but if they run your tags they will see if the registered owner has a Concealed Handgun Permit before they even approach your window. It's flagged on the DMV database.

I prefer to mention it as I hand over license and registration anyway, to prevent possible surprises, and to be sure that we both know that we both know. Courtesy runs two ways.

I usually get off with a warning unless it's a state trooper.

[Misty02]

Originally Posted by Snapper2

Murphy makes mine lock their keys in the car so they don't get lost. Cant imagine who they got this from.

Hey, don’t knock it! Replacing a window you had to break to retrieve the keys you left inside may be cheaper. Less likely to happen now days with keyless entry, few will manually lock the vehicle and will notice they left the key inside…. unless, the key was left on a seat inside and the vehicle locks automatically after a set time. Most won't lock if the key is in the ignition, some won't lock if the key is inside. If it does, then we're back to... and

Not fair to use “I told you so!” at times like those. It’s unnecessary and cruel to repeat what their inner voice is telling them. I’m told a certain smile with raised eyebrows is the equivalent of saying it, obviously, I disagree.

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[writwing]

Originally Posted by SouthernBoyVA

I don't like "surprises" and I am quite certain neither do LEO's. I want to go home safely and in one piece and I bet the officer does as well. I don't know what kind of day he's had, what has transpired for him over the last hour, or his general mode. So I am going to let him know right up front that I am carrying a firearm openly on my right side so we can both be at ease.

So if he's had a bad day he can behave badly.

If he can't handle the job, there is always WalMart.

[Misty02]

Originally Posted by writwing

So if he's had a bad day he can behave badly.

If he can't handle the job, there is always WalMart.

No, but when you have others in a field killed for no reason other than the uniform they wear or when you learn that the two highest risks activities for a police officer are while conducting traffic stops or serving warrants, it should not be too difficult to understand why those two activities are approached with the outmost caution.

The majority of police officers are professional and more often than not extremely polite with people they encounter. Let’s also remember that human beings (the normal ones at least) don’t have multiple personalities. We want officers that are assertive and aggressive when dealing with the majority of the population they come in contact with (criminals) then we want them to be meek and passive when dealing with us (law abiding citizens). The most we should reasonably expect of a good officer is professional.

Shadow an officer for a day and you’ll get to observe the change of temperament and level of caution while they deal with people that could represent different risk levels. At a traffic stop you’ll sense a heightened awareness, surprisingly, while responding to a fraud call at a victim’s home some will have the ability to switch to carrying and understanding. While responding to hit and run, running at 100+ MPH to apprehend the drunk driver with adrenaline pumping at unbelievable levels they are ferocious and quite determined to capture and take that person down. About 3 minutes later they’ll switch back to carrying, compassionate and understanding when dealing with the family of the victim that was left for dead looking like a pretzel on the ground. I observed this with my own eyes and I still don’t know how a person is able to make such a switch between calls. BTW, the officers we (there were 3 of us) rode with made traffic stops in between those calls. I have no clue how they can switch between levels at such speeds nor would I expect most people to be able to do it. It took me a lot longer to get a normal heart rate and regain complete composure after the high speed pursuit than it took the officer, for him it was more like a switch. Is it reasonable to expect such abilities from all officers out there? I don’t believe it is.

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[RussP]

Well said, Misty...

[SouthernBoyVA]

Originally Posted by Tactical23

Hindsight, and any future contact, I agree. I was pocket carrying at the time and took it out very slowly with two fingers while he kept a close eye on me.

I'm just surprised he asked you to remove it. I can see that since you were pocket carrying, it was much safer for all concerned for you to remove it. I just do not like the idea of either me or an officer taking my gun during a stop. There are several reasons for this but most all revolve around the safety issue.

[SouthernBoyVA]

Originally Posted by writwing

So if he's had a bad day he can behave badly.

If he can't handle the job, there is always WalMart.

This is true. Just don't feel like being the test case of an LEO bad day. In all fairness, I have never run into any LEO's acting like this when I have been carrying. I did run into one 20 years ago at a high school. He was a motor cop and we got into quite a heated exchange about whether or not I was going to cross his yellow tape line. I won and he lost and he didn't like that but had to eat crow.

[writwing]

Originally Posted by Misty02

No, but when you have others in a field killed for no reason other than the uniform they wear or when you learn that the two highest risks activities for a police officer are while conducting traffic stops or serving warrants, it should not be too difficult to understand why those two activities are approached with the outmost caution.

The majority of police officers are professional and more often than not extremely polite with people they encounter. Let’s also remember that human beings (the normal ones at least) don’t have multiple personalities. We want officers that are assertive and aggressive when dealing with the majority of the population they come in contact with (criminals) then we want them to be meek and passive when dealing with us (law abiding citizens). The most we should reasonably expect of a good officer is professional.

Shadow an officer for a day and you’ll get to observe the change of temperament and level of caution while they deal with people that could represent different risk levels. At a traffic stop you’ll sense a heightened awareness, surprisingly, while responding to a fraud call at a victim’s home some will have the ability to switch to carrying and understanding. While responding to hit and run, running at 100+ MPH to apprehend the drunk driver with adrenaline pumping at unbelievable levels they are ferocious and quite determined to capture and take that person down. About 3 minutes later they’ll switch back to carrying, compassionate and understanding when dealing with the family of the victim that was left for dead looking like a pretzel on the ground. I observed this with my own eyes and I still don’t know how a person is able to make such a switch between calls. BTW, the officers we (there were 3 of us) rode with made traffic stops in between those calls. I have no clue how they can switch between levels at such speeds nor would I expect most people to be able to do it. It took me a lot longer to get a normal heart rate and regain complete composure after the high speed pursuit than it took the officer, for him it was more like a switch. Is it reasonable to expect such abilities from all officers out there? I don’t believe it is.

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They chose the profession, if they cant handle it they can always go elsewhere.

[RussP]

Originally Posted by writwing

They chose the profession, if they cant handle it they can always go elsewhere.

That is such a pathetic mantra, can't you do any better?

But really, what does your comment have to do with Misty's post? She's giving you examples of cops who can and do "handle it."

[Rick C]

Don’t be a prick about the situation (both sides). Hands on the wheel, motor off, with the interior lights on. Let the officer know that you are carrying. At that point, you have done all that you can do. After that, just go with the flow. Some are asshats, some aren’t (that goes both ways). Yes, I’ve been pulled over.

[Misty02]

Originally Posted by writwing

They chose the profession, if they cant handle it they can always go elsewhere.

It is not that simple. Most of us in private industry can refuse service to an individual that we believe presents a risk to ourselves or others, in many cases for just about any other reason. Those are exactly the kind of individuals officers are required to do business with, as you say, it is their job. While their job may consist of dealing with individuals that often pose a risk to society, nowhere is it written they have to do so at the risk of their own life or safety. As a matter of fact they must do exactly the opposite. Within seconds they must evaluate the risk the person they have stopped poses and handle it in a way that minimizes the danger to the officer and others in the vicinity during the stop. If they have stopped a criminal it is their job to take that person off the street so they don’t get to further victimize others in society. Not all criminals have criminal records or outstanding warrants, thus that mini-interview done on the side of the road could be of critical importance.

Take a look at this article: http://articles.latimes.com/1995-05-15/local/me-841_1_routine-traffic-stops This was a single google search from a single agency. I just clicked one link, imagine all others I didn’t bother to click a link for?

"We stop to help people whose cars break down, and it turns out they have somebody dead in the car," CHP Sgt. Mike Teixiera said. "We probably get more murderers stopping them for speeding than we do by looking for them."

The number of officers slain over the years during traffic stops serves as a painful reminder of the danger of pulling over a car for even a minor infraction.

Do you or do you not want these individuals off the streets where they can’t harm others? Do you or do you not understand that officers will come in contact with murderers and other hardcore criminals during a traffic stop without them knowing off the bat what they are dealing with?

Ted Bundy, Randy Kraft, Richard Ramirez and many others around the country, their capture stemming from what many of us would consider a routine traffic stop (when it involves us). Our mentality often is “We’re not criminals. We pay their salary and they better know all the laws and treat us as we want them to.” I was going to say “treat us professionally” but for many of us that isn’t enough. They could be professional but do/say something we don’t like or it’s inaccurate and we not be able to differentiate between being professional and being nice. We also seem to forget that often the reason we were stopped was because we actually broke a law, all while we continue to call ourselves “law-abiding”.

Look, I’m the first one that expects to be treated with the outmost respect and professionalism in my dealings with others. I work at treating others the same way I wish to be treated; however, I too fail at times. When I’ve failed I look back, see the error of my ways and wish I had a chance at a do-over; sadly, that isn’t possible and often I don’t see that person again to apologize for it.

When we have an attitude that makes no allowance for the errors of others or when we lack understanding of how difficult their job or position really is, it us the ones that have a problem.

We have an obligation as citizens as well. If in our dealings we encounter an officer that is abusive or violates our rights we shouldn’t keep quiet, we should report those to their superiors so the proper steps can be taken. There are indeed some bad officers out there, do something about those without stopping to cooperate and help (within reason) the others to do the job we need them to do. Complaining to those that can’t take the necessary measures is meaningless and it’s just whining.

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[Darkangel1846]

Ya know I've been stopped about three times over the last 12 years....... I turn the engin off, put my billfold on the dash, and keep my hands on the stearing wheel as the leo approaches. Each time the officer ask if I'm packen....(when the LEO runs my plates it tells him if I have a CCW permit) I always say "yes". they usually ask for my Lic. and Ins. I always ask if I can go to the glove compartment to get my Ins. card.
I'm always pleasent and only answer the questions asked, I always thank the officer then go on my way. Have never had a problem.

[janice6]

My opinion. Only mine.

You aren't being paid to be a bullet sponge. They are.

Give them the benefit of a doubt and be courteous, respectful, admit your mistake and above all, tell them about the weapon before they find out some other way.

I have never had a bad experience dealing with a cop. They have always been respectful and understanding of me also.

I am only addressing my driving experience over 60 years.

(POST says: Never argue with a man with a gun, that's what courts and judges are for.)

[PPD812]

My preference, just tell me. Keep your hands visible, and just let me know that your armed. I have no issue with it, just don't want any surprises.

Please DO NOT, remove your firearm from the console or other place of concealment and try to show/hand it to me as I approach. This has actually happened to me on more than one stop. It is a very unpleasant experience for both of us.